Steam Engine Questions

[CTH2004]

so, steam appears to be the best for major power output, but I have some questions for optimization (and usage/ tips)

So, onto the questions! (If I get an answer to a question I will make that question bolded, and put the answer there, so y’all can add onto that answer (more in depth)!)

1. to double check, they work in space, right? (not very realistic, but I digress: yes. Maybe the “materials” have oxygen included or something.
   
2. what is the benifits/ drawbacks of different boilers besides amount of steam? They appear to be equally efficient, so is it soeley the steam generation quantity?: quantity and maybe space efficiency
   
3. What are the benifits/ drawbacks of different sized engines?The biggest one is more efficient consumption wise, smallest is more efficient size wise, the medium one is a "jack of all trades, master of none"
   
4. With large, what are different (besides placment) between the parallel and series ones? What are the benifits/ drawbacks?Parallelel act as 1 stage, so each one adds more power (an engine with 2 paralel pistons is the same as 2 engines with 1 piston (excluding any losses you have). series act as a new stage, which lets you recycle steam, which gets you some extra energy, and can help you have some precision control for efficient burns that keep it always on slightly, for instance.
   
5. Same with turbines, what's the difference between different sizes?: space efficiency/ placement
   
6. for the 2 meter "sealed" shaft, how can I tell which end is sealed?The second meter is sealed, so the airtight part will be "flush" with the outside
   
7. How do I use the crank shaft motor (probally don't need it, but would be nice to know)Just attatch to shafts to power things like propellers. It can't power them to max power, but they can be compounded by using flywheels
   
8. how do I use the turbine? Steam just builds up pressure, then stops. What's going on?: the pressure will drop again when energy is produced, it doesn’t “vent” steam
   
9. Does adding more pistons increase power always? Is there a limit, or a point where it has a negative effect?: for staging, dimenishibg returnee (typically past 4 stages, the improvement is counteracted by the drawback, so it’s rare for 5+ stages to cause net gains). Stage size is unknown, but something I can test
   
10. what is the most efficient way to use steam pistons? Why?
    
11. any other tips?

Thanks!

P.S. @fleatoad recommended a tutorial, still leaving this for any miscilaneus advice!

[fleatoad]

Go to Youtube and look up Steam engines by Liv's Lab it will teach you all you need to know.

[CTH2004]

Originally posted by fleatoad:

Go to Youtube and look up Steam engines by Liv's Lab it will teach you all you need to know.

Thanks! Still, will leave this open for other thoughts/ tips (:

[Quazy]

i never had any luck with steam piston power. it was always horribly ineffecient on space and mat usage. took time to wind up and was easy to break.

1. yes they work in space. ik theres no air for the fire in space but w/e mats are anything and everything. might be some o2 in there. lol

2:size only seems to determine how much you can possibly get per block. didnt seem to have much impact of effeciency. the 5x5x5 large stack can get some 23k e/s >:)

3:steam works by burning mats to build up steam pressure. volume from boilers effects the amount of steam being produced. when something uses steam pressure to generate anything it sucks a certain volume of steam. as pressure reduces that volume going out reduces. pistons suck the steam out fast meaning u need to heat a big ass boiler and use alot of mats to get all that water up to optimal pressure. that warmup stage is where u loose alot of effeciency. if u take 1 minute to warmup for a fight that only lasts 1 minutes you throwing thousands of mats down the drain.

turbines running on steam is a whole different story.
they dont use alot of volume. they only need pressure to spin fast. and u only need a 2 part turbine to function. meaning u can get away with a furnace/boiler/pipe/turbine cased in a box and batteries with electric motors spread out wherever u want weight. redundant and gets full power of the start. the warmup time on a single boiler is only about 10 seconds. meaning on startup and shutoff its far more effecient. use a few rtg's to power stability systems and allow the ship to limp if it ever runs out.

[CTH2004]

Originally posted by Quazy:

i never had any luck with steam piston power. it was always horribly ineffecient on space and mat usage. took time to wind up and was easy to break.

1. yes they work in space. ik theres no air for the fire in space but w/e mats are anything and everything. might be some o2 in there. lol

2:size only seems to determine how much you can possibly get per block. didnt seem to have much impact of effeciency. the 5x5x5 large stack can get some 23k e/s >:)

3:steam works by burning mats to build up steam pressure. volume from boilers effects the amount of steam being produced. when something uses steam pressure to generate anything it sucks a certain volume of steam. as pressure reduces that volume going out reduces. pistons suck the steam out fast meaning u need to heat a big ass boiler and use alot of mats to get all that water up to optimal pressure. that warmup stage is where u loose alot of effeciency. if u take 1 minute to warmup for a fight that only lasts 1 minutes you throwing thousands of mats down the drain.

turbines running on steam is a whole different story.
they dont use alot of volume. they only need pressure to spin fast. and u only need a 2 part turbine to function. meaning u can get away with a furnace/boiler/pipe/turbine cased in a box and batteries with electric motors spread out wherever u want weight. redundant and gets full power of the start. the warmup time on a single boiler is only about 10 seconds. meaning on startup and shutoff its far more effecient. use a few rtg's to power stability systems and allow the ship to limp if it ever runs out.

Well, great! So turbines basically just work, cool! Sounds like engines are probally best for if you need lots of power (say, lots of lasers), due to electric engines inneficiency. (As well as drills and steam propellers). If you minimize warmup, then it could be useful as a source of power “surge”. For instance, if you have ion thrusters and jets, with low priority on the ions. If underwater/ in space, you can’t use jets. So, you now are rapidly using your electric engines, so you don’t have that much leftover power (if any). The massive engine could kick into gear at that point!

[fleatoad]

Engines are situational. All engines have their uses.
Steam pistons gives lots of power for the space it uses.
Turbines need batteries which take up more space adds weight and cost more. So while it is more efficient you have to spend more material building it, adding more thrust and armour to compensate.

If you have watched that Youtube video they make a really good small piston engine. I use that quite a lot in my larger builds.

All engines have their strong points and weak points but all have their uses.

[Dunhill]

I made a guide a week or so ago about power in general. It covers things like power and space efficiency and it gives some general tips
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3159622340

4. Parallel ones are for extending a single stage. Series ones are for adding stages. 4 all parallel piston engine has a single stage with 4 pistons. 4 all series piston engine has 4 stages with one piston per stage

6. the second meter can clip through blocks

7. you attach whatever you want to them. They're usually used for propellers, but note they can't power then fully. The bigger the propeller, the faster it will spin up, effectively being more efficient and more powerful if it's not working 100% of the time

[CTH2004]

Originally posted by fleatoad:

Engines are situational. All engines have their uses.

As do all things (:

Originally posted by fleatoad:

Steam pistons gives lots of power for the space it uses.

great!

Originally posted by fleatoad:

Turbines need batteries which take up more space adds weight and cost more. So while it is more efficient you have to spend more material building it, adding more thrust and armour to compensate.

True, but also less steam venting and boiler useage means that the heat profile should be more manageable (just burry boilers), and only go up during compat, hopefully...

Originally posted by fleatoad:

If you have watched that Youtube video they make a really good small piston engine. I use that quite a lot in my larger builds.

Yeah, that engine is a nice one, I plan on making something akin to it, but see if I can optimize it moreso, and/or use larger pistons (or smaller and larger in conjunction) efficiently

Also, you say that you use it a lot in your larger builds, you plan on publishing any of those?

And, side note on that video, he said he was making a Part 2 to that video... wonder if he ever will...

Originally posted by fleatoad:

All engines have their strong points and weak points but all have their uses.

True. Out of curiosity, what would you say are the strong/ weak (in a quick gist, if I have more I would make another discussion) of the others?

Originally posted by Smoke:

I made a guide a week or so ago about power in general. It covers things like power and space efficiency and it gives some general tips
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3159622340

Thank you! Also, looking from there to your workshop, i'm surprised you don't have any From the Depths things published...

Originally posted by Smoke:

4. Parallel ones are for extending a single stage. Series ones are for adding stages. 4 all parallel piston engine has a single stage with 4 pistons. 4 all series piston engine has 4 stages with one piston per stage

Ah, makes sense.

To double check, more pistons in a stage equals more steam consumed, but more power. (and a better ration between how much power per steam in total), Meanwhile more stages equals more energy taken from said steam, right?

And, I bet you could make a single stage using only series pistons, but part of the point of large pistons is they have stages pre-made...

Originally posted by Smoke:

6. the second meter can clip through blocks

Thanks!

Originally posted by Smoke:

7. you attach whatever you want to them. They're usually used for propellers, but note they can't power then fully. The bigger the propeller, the faster it will spin up, effectively being more efficient and more powerful if it's not working 100% of the time

Okay, can they attach to shafts (and maybe flywheels?)? I tried that, and it didin't seem to work...

And, can you like “compound” them, to have say 2 (or 3) large motors on a large propeller? Combined maybe they could fully power it?

[Dunhill]

Originally posted by CTH2004:

Originally posted by Smoke:

I made a guide a week or so ago about power in general. It covers things like power and space efficiency and it gives some general tips
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3159622340

Thank you! Also, looking from there to your workshop, i'm surprised you don't have any From the Depths things published...

Originally posted by Smoke:

4. Parallel ones are for extending a single stage. Series ones are for adding stages. 4 all parallel piston engine has a single stage with 4 pistons. 4 all series piston engine has 4 stages with one piston per stage

Ah, makes sense.

To double check, more pistons in a stage equals more steam consumed, but more power. (and a better ration between how much power per steam in total), Meanwhile more stages equals more energy taken from said steam, right?

And, I bet you could make a single stage using only series pistons, but part of the point of large pistons is they have stages pre-made...

Originally posted by Smoke:

6. the second meter can clip through blocks

Thanks!

Originally posted by Smoke:

7. you attach whatever you want to them. They're usually used for propellers, but note they can't power then fully. The bigger the propeller, the faster it will spin up, effectively being more efficient and more powerful if it's not working 100% of the time

Okay, can they attach to shafts (and maybe flywheels?)? I tried that, and it didin't seem to work...

And, can you like “compound” them, to have say 2 (or 3) large motors on a large propeller? Combined maybe they could fully power it?

No problem, it was fun making the thing, even though Steam can be a bit absurd with the constant manual reviews... I don't post anything because I don't like making good craft all that much :D. I'd much rather build something experimental and gimmicky that just barely just works instead.

More pistons per stage give you more power, yes, but it also consumes more steam. 4 pistons per stage is material wise the same as 4 engines with 1 piston per stage. Having more than one stage is essentially recycling steam. It can give you some extra power, but it can also give you less. In any case, you do it to reduce the steam input and material burn, and not really to get extra power. It has to do things with back pressure, but that's not overly relevant.

They're directional, and so are shafts. It's stupid, but it is what it is. You've gotta look out for those green pins when you're building them. They connect to flywheels as well. And yes, you can use flywheels to link systems like that.

[CTH2004]

Originally posted by Smoke:

Originally posted by CTH2004:

Thank you! Also, looking from there to your workshop, i'm surprised you don't have any From the Depths things published...

Ah, makes sense.

To double check, more pistons in a stage equals more steam consumed, but more power. (and a better ration between how much power per steam in total), Meanwhile more stages equals more energy taken from said steam, right?

And, I bet you could make a single stage using only series pistons, but part of the point of large pistons is they have stages pre-made...

Thanks!

Okay, can they attach to shafts (and maybe flywheels?)? I tried that, and it didin't seem to work...

And, can you like “compound” them, to have say 2 (or 3) large motors on a large propeller? Combined maybe they could fully power it?

No problem, it was fun making the thing, even though Steam can be a bit absurd with the constant manual reviews...

What do you mean "the constant manual reviews"?

And yeah, there is a reason (especially in modding, which I do on Rimworld), that the steam workshop is, well, it's kinda a joke. When it malfunctions, it's "steam being steam again", because, well it is!

Originally posted by Smoke:

I don't post anything because I don't like making good craft all that much :D. I'd much rather build something experimental and gimmicky that just barely just works instead.

So? Why not publish those? They are fun to mess around with, and might inspire someone to make a device that's based on it, but better. Then, someone does the same with that one. A third person makes something inspired by both of them. You make a 2.0. Someone makes a more feasible version, and puts it on a ship.

While you didin't upload something useful in campaign, you made something that lead to many new concepts!
For instance (some personal examples)

• That missile I keep mentioning with the swarm thing (that I keep not quite finishing). It is not efficient, and the only case you can argue it makes sense is as a super-weapon on a capital sense. However, it's cool! So, once I have it, I'll publish it!
  
• An all-RTG vehicle. It might have some nice uses (say, a scenario with very few rescourses), but ultimatley it's pointless. But its neat, will definitly show it.
  
• from a game I used to play, I made a propulsion device using weapon recoil. Very expensive and innefficient, but cool
  
• I also made a device for deleting oxygen. at best, it's a (almost always) waste of rescourses. But, it's neat!

Originally posted by Smoke:

More pistons per stage give you more power, yes, but it also consumes more steam. 4 pistons per stage is material wise the same as 4 engines with 1 piston per stage.

Alright. also, for spaceing, is there a way to connect parallell pistons non-parralell (Basically, have, say, a stage of 6 pistons. 2 parallell on the bottom, steam looped up, 2 parallell on the left, looped up, 2 parallell on the right. Next off split it to a new stage, and make 6 pistons using that same pattern. So each stage is 2 shafts, but 6 pistons.

And, for the benifits of higher stages, what is the effect like (excluding mechanical losses)

1. A linear increase (what I expect), wherein the power per material stays the same, and just multiplies by the number of pistons (1 piston is exactly half as powerful as 2. Adding a third piston makes it 3 times as powerful as the original 1 piston) (what I expect)
   
2. Self-Improving: as you add more, the power per material goes up. So 2 pistons is, say, 2.1 times as good as 1 piston. 3 pistons is 3.2 times 1, ectera
   
   If it is option 2, there are some possible variations. so, is it:
   1. Infinite (Goes on, always being more and more efficient)
      
   2. Asymptotic (after a while, the boost in efficiency becomes almost nothing, but never quite nothing. After 100 pistons, it might take 400 more before you have a 0.01 change to power per material, but there is still a change. Basically, dimensihing returns, but never negative
      
   3. "Parabolic". In this case, after a while, power per material starts dropping again
3. dimenishing returns: each piston is slightly less effective. So 2 pistons might actually be 1.9 times as effective as 1 piston

I suspect the first one is true

Remember, this is assuming there is no losses, which isn't true as you are using multiple shafts, but... this is mathmatically speaking. Come to think of it, assuming the first one is true, the fact more pistons equals more shafts, eventually you will start having dimenishing returns because of that.

Originally posted by Smoke:

Having more than one stage is essentially recycling steam. It can give you some extra power, but it can also give you less. In any case, you do it to reduce the steam input and material burn, and not really to get extra power. It has to do things with back pressure, but that's not overly relevant

Okay, kinda confused. why is it reducing steam input and material burn?

And, how does this connect into backpressure? How would it appear, how would I fix it?

Originally posted by Smoke:

They're directional, and so are shafts. It's stupid, but it is what it is. You've gotta look out for those green pins when you're building them.

So that's how you tell which direction it is! I've been just using "didin't connect, flip it."

On that note, is there a way to turn the shafts? I know you can move them up, down, left, and right via "axis-shifting gears", but what if I want a propeller in the back, but my engine faceing left? Or use 1 large engine to transmit energy to all of my smaller manuvering propellers, and a sperate one for the main engine..

Originally posted by Smoke:

They connect to flywheels as well. And yes, you can use flywheels to link systems like that.

should double check, by doing that, I can use motors to get full-strenght propellers, right? And I'm assuming you can link engines together with flywheels.

[Dunhill]

Originally posted by CTH2004:

Originally posted by Smoke:

No problem, it was fun making the thing, even though Steam can be a bit absurd with the constant manual reviews...

What do you mean "the constant manual reviews"?

And yeah, there is a reason (especially in modding, which I do on Rimworld), that the steam workshop is, well, it's kinda a joke. When it malfunctions, it's "steam being steam again", because, well it is!

Originally posted by Smoke:

I don't post anything because I don't like making good craft all that much :D. I'd much rather build something experimental and gimmicky that just barely just works instead.

So? Why not publish those? They are fun to mess around with, and might inspire someone to make a device that's based on it, but better. Then, someone does the same with that one. A third person makes something inspired by both of them. You make a 2.0. Someone makes a more feasible version, and puts it on a ship.

While you didin't upload something useful in campaign, you made something that lead to many new concepts!
For instance (some personal examples)

• That missile I keep mentioning with the swarm thing (that I keep not quite finishing). It is not efficient, and the only case you can argue it makes sense is as a super-weapon on a capital sense. However, it's cool! So, once I have it, I'll publish it!
  
• An all-RTG vehicle. It might have some nice uses (say, a scenario with very few rescourses), but ultimatley it's pointless. But its neat, will definitly show it.
  
• from a game I used to play, I made a propulsion device using weapon recoil. Very expensive and innefficient, but cool
  
• I also made a device for deleting oxygen. at best, it's a (almost always) waste of rescourses. But, it's neat!

Originally posted by Smoke:

More pistons per stage give you more power, yes, but it also consumes more steam. 4 pistons per stage is material wise the same as 4 engines with 1 piston per stage.

Alright. also, for spaceing, is there a way to connect parallell pistons non-parralell (Basically, have, say, a stage of 6 pistons. 2 parallell on the bottom, steam looped up, 2 parallell on the left, looped up, 2 parallell on the right. Next off split it to a new stage, and make 6 pistons using that same pattern. So each stage is 2 shafts, but 6 pistons.

And, for the benifits of higher stages, what is the effect like (excluding mechanical losses)

1. A linear increase (what I expect), wherein the power per material stays the same, and just multiplies by the number of pistons (1 piston is exactly half as powerful as 2. Adding a third piston makes it 3 times as powerful as the original 1 piston) (what I expect)
   
2. Self-Improving: as you add more, the power per material goes up. So 2 pistons is, say, 2.1 times as good as 1 piston. 3 pistons is 3.2 times 1, ectera
   
   If it is option 2, there are some possible variations. so, is it:
   1. Infinite (Goes on, always being more and more efficient)
      
   2. Asymptotic (after a while, the boost in efficiency becomes almost nothing, but never quite nothing. After 100 pistons, it might take 400 more before you have a 0.01 change to power per material, but there is still a change. Basically, dimensihing returns, but never negative
      
   3. "Parabolic". In this case, after a while, power per material starts dropping again
3. dimenishing returns: each piston is slightly less effective. So 2 pistons might actually be 1.9 times as effective as 1 piston

I suspect the first one is true

Remember, this is assuming there is no losses, which isn't true as you are using multiple shafts, but... this is mathmatically speaking. Come to think of it, assuming the first one is true, the fact more pistons equals more shafts, eventually you will start having dimenishing returns because of that.

Originally posted by Smoke:

Having more than one stage is essentially recycling steam. It can give you some extra power, but it can also give you less. In any case, you do it to reduce the steam input and material burn, and not really to get extra power. It has to do things with back pressure, but that's not overly relevant

Okay, kinda confused. why is it reducing steam input and material burn?

And, how does this connect into backpressure? How would it appear, how would I fix it?

Originally posted by Smoke:

They're directional, and so are shafts. It's stupid, but it is what it is. You've gotta look out for those green pins when you're building them.

So that's how you tell which direction it is! I've been just using "didin't connect, flip it."

On that note, is there a way to turn the shafts? I know you can move them up, down, left, and right via "axis-shifting gears", but what if I want a propeller in the back, but my engine faceing left? Or use 1 large engine to transmit energy to all of my smaller manuvering propellers, and a sperate one for the main engine..

Originally posted by Smoke:

They connect to flywheels as well. And yes, you can use flywheels to link systems like that.

should double check, by doing that, I can use motors to get full-strenght propellers, right? And I'm assuming you can link engines together with flywheels.

You correct a typo, and then have to wait an hour for an actual person to review it before you can edit it again. It's a pain.


Well, I post screenshots or vids on reddit sometimes. The thing is, the majority of that stuff simply doesn't work. I've been dabbling in mass drivers, and found essentially that they can't be made to work reliably anymore. It took a lot of time for me to realize that, because it's such a cool concept and I wanted it to work.


It is possible, but there's no point of doing it if you're only using one parallel piston per stage. It's necessary if you're going for 2+ pistons per stage. That being said, I think it's pretty often a better bet to go with multiple series engines.

If I understand you correctly, you essentially want to hook up 3 pistons per crank shaft. It's possible, but it will leave you with an awkward shape, but you will get some bonus PPM because of reduced losses.

Higher stages give you more PPM but less PPV. It isn't really worth going higher than 4 stages. When you add a stage, the back pressure of the previous stage increases, reducing its effectiveness, but you get an entirely new stage. The power you get from a stage increases with the difference of the pressure that goes in and the pressure that goes out. Regarding the numbers, here's a table from the guide.
There's numbers on the wiki if you're curious about that. What I have going on in the table are some practical engines you can build on normal scales. If I remember correctly. all stages being equal in size is not perfect, but it's good enough. To get the perfect scenario, you'd need to build an absurdly large engine. And that's a lot of eggs in one basket for not that much of a performance increase.


Just hook things up and don't worry about back pressure. It always appears; staging causes it and the atmosphere causes it. What's important is that stages increase PPM, but reduce PPV. If you're really interested, the math is on the wiki.


Things have this green pins going through them. The sharp ones go into the wide ones. It's how it is for basically every system in the game. Look at, for example, a cram packer.

All you can do is shift the axis. You really need to keep in mind where your propellers are when building steam engines.


That is correct.

[CTH2004]

Originally posted by Smoke of D'van:

Originally posted by CTH2004:

What do you mean "the constant manual reviews"?

And yeah, there is a reason (especially in modding, which I do on Rimworld), that the steam workshop is, well, it's kinda a joke. When it malfunctions, it's "steam being steam again", because, well it is!

So? Why not publish those? They are fun to mess around with, and might inspire someone to make a device that's based on it, but better. Then, someone does the same with that one. A third person makes something inspired by both of them. You make a 2.0. Someone makes a more feasible version, and puts it on a ship.

While you didin't upload something useful in campaign, you made something that lead to many new concepts!
For instance (some personal examples)

• That missile I keep mentioning with the swarm thing (that I keep not quite finishing). It is not efficient, and the only case you can argue it makes sense is as a super-weapon on a capital sense. However, it's cool! So, once I have it, I'll publish it!
  
• An all-RTG vehicle. It might have some nice uses (say, a scenario with very few rescourses), but ultimatley it's pointless. But its neat, will definitly show it.
  
• from a game I used to play, I made a propulsion device using weapon recoil. Very expensive and innefficient, but cool
  
• I also made a device for deleting oxygen. at best, it's a (almost always) waste of rescourses. But, it's neat!

Alright. also, for spaceing, is there a way to connect parallell pistons non-parralell (Basically, have, say, a stage of 6 pistons. 2 parallell on the bottom, steam looped up, 2 parallell on the left, looped up, 2 parallell on the right. Next off split it to a new stage, and make 6 pistons using that same pattern. So each stage is 2 shafts, but 6 pistons.

And, for the benifits of higher stages, what is the effect like (excluding mechanical losses)

1. A linear increase (what I expect), wherein the power per material stays the same, and just multiplies by the number of pistons (1 piston is exactly half as powerful as 2. Adding a third piston makes it 3 times as powerful as the original 1 piston) (what I expect)
   
2. Self-Improving: as you add more, the power per material goes up. So 2 pistons is, say, 2.1 times as good as 1 piston. 3 pistons is 3.2 times 1, ectera
   
   If it is option 2, there are some possible variations. so, is it:
   1. Infinite (Goes on, always being more and more efficient)
      
   2. Asymptotic (after a while, the boost in efficiency becomes almost nothing, but never quite nothing. After 100 pistons, it might take 400 more before you have a 0.01 change to power per material, but there is still a change. Basically, dimensihing returns, but never negative
      
   3. "Parabolic". In this case, after a while, power per material starts dropping again
3. dimenishing returns: each piston is slightly less effective. So 2 pistons might actually be 1.9 times as effective as 1 piston

I suspect the first one is true

Remember, this is assuming there is no losses, which isn't true as you are using multiple shafts, but... this is mathmatically speaking. Come to think of it, assuming the first one is true, the fact more pistons equals more shafts, eventually you will start having dimenishing returns because of that.

Okay, kinda confused. why is it reducing steam input and material burn?

And, how does this connect into backpressure? How would it appear, how would I fix it?

So that's how you tell which direction it is! I've been just using "didin't connect, flip it."

On that note, is there a way to turn the shafts? I know you can move them up, down, left, and right via "axis-shifting gears", but what if I want a propeller in the back, but my engine faceing left? Or use 1 large engine to transmit energy to all of my smaller manuvering propellers, and a sperate one for the main engine..
should double check, by doing that, I can use motors to get full-strenght propellers, right? And I'm assuming you can link engines together with flywheels.

You correct a typo, and then have to wait an hour for an actual person to review it before you can edit it again. It's a pain.

Huh, i thought it let you edit it, just didin't make the edits public. well, shame...

Originally posted by Smoke of D'van:

Well, I post screenshots or vids on reddit sometimes. The thing is, the majority of that stuff simply doesn't work. I've been dabbling in mass drivers, and found essentially that they can't be made to work reliably anymore. It took a lot of time for me to realize that, because it's such a cool concept and I wanted it to work.

Still, even if they aren't relliable, others could build off of it... ah well.

Also, could you link your page or something, so I can find them :)

Originally posted by Smoke of D'van:

It is possible, but there's no point of doing it if you're only using one parallel piston per stage. It's necessary if you're going for 2+ pistons per stage. That being said, I think it's pretty often a better bet to go with multiple series engines.

If I understand you correctly, you essentially want to hook up 3 pistons per crank shaft. It's possible, but it will leave you with an awkward shape, but you will get some bonus PPM because of reduced losses.
How though? Or should I probally just use series pistons if I'm makeing a multi-piston per stage steam engine that covers multiple sides?

(I just think I figured out a way to do it)

Originally posted by Smoke of D'van:

Higher stages give you more PPM but less PPV. It isn't really worth going higher than 4 stages. When you add a stage, the back pressure of the previous stage increases, reducing its effectiveness, but you get an entirely new stage. The power you get from a stage increases with the difference of the pressure that goes in and the pressure that goes out. Regarding the numbers, here's a table from the guide.
There's numbers on the wiki if you're curious about that. What I have going on in the table are some practical engines you can build on normal scales. If I remember correctly. all stages being equal in size is not perfect, but it's good enough. To get the perfect scenario, you'd need to build an absurdly large engine. And that's a lot of eggs in one basket for not that much of a performance increase.

Thanks!

Originally posted by Smoke of D'van:

Just hook things up and don't worry about back pressure. It always appears; staging causes it and the atmosphere causes it. What's important is that stages increase PPM, but reduce PPV. If you're really interested, the math is on the wiki.

Okay, so if I do stageing, it's guarenteed, and minimizing it won't cause much of an improvment, so it's generally not worth it?

Originally posted by Smoke of D'van:

Things have this green pins going through them. The sharp ones go into the wide ones. It's how it is for basically every system in the game. Look at, for example, a cram packer.

Thanks!

Originally posted by Smoke of D'van:

All you can do is shift the axis. You really need to keep in mind where your propellers are when building steam engines.

Shame...

Originally posted by Smoke of D'van:

That is correct.

Great!

[Dunhill]

Originally posted by CTH2004:

Originally posted by Smoke of D'van:

You correct a typo, and then have to wait an hour for an actual person to review it before you can edit it again. It's a pain.

Huh, i thought it let you edit it, just didin't make the edits public. well, shame...

Originally posted by Smoke of D'van:

Well, I post screenshots or vids on reddit sometimes. The thing is, the majority of that stuff simply doesn't work. I've been dabbling in mass drivers, and found essentially that they can't be made to work reliably anymore. It took a lot of time for me to realize that, because it's such a cool concept and I wanted it to work.

Still, even if they aren't relliable, others could build off of it... ah well.

Also, could you link your page or something, so I can find them :)

Originally posted by Smoke of D'van:

It is possible, but there's no point of doing it if you're only using one parallel piston per stage. It's necessary if you're going for 2+ pistons per stage. That being said, I think it's pretty often a better bet to go with multiple series engines.

If I understand you correctly, you essentially want to hook up 3 pistons per crank shaft. It's possible, but it will leave you with an awkward shape, but you will get some bonus PPM because of reduced losses.
How though? Or should I probally just use series pistons if I'm makeing a multi-piston per stage steam engine that covers multiple sides?

(I just think I figured out a way to do it)

Originally posted by Smoke of D'van:

Higher stages give you more PPM but less PPV. It isn't really worth going higher than 4 stages. When you add a stage, the back pressure of the previous stage increases, reducing its effectiveness, but you get an entirely new stage. The power you get from a stage increases with the difference of the pressure that goes in and the pressure that goes out. Regarding the numbers, here's a table from the guide.
There's numbers on the wiki if you're curious about that. What I have going on in the table are some practical engines you can build on normal scales. If I remember correctly. all stages being equal in size is not perfect, but it's good enough. To get the perfect scenario, you'd need to build an absurdly large engine. And that's a lot of eggs in one basket for not that much of a performance increase.

Thanks!

Originally posted by Smoke of D'van:

Just hook things up and don't worry about back pressure. It always appears; staging causes it and the atmosphere causes it. What's important is that stages increase PPM, but reduce PPV. If you're really interested, the math is on the wiki.

Okay, so if I do stageing, it's guarenteed, and minimizing it won't cause much of an improvment, so it's generally not worth it?

Originally posted by Smoke of D'van:

Things have this green pins going through them. The sharp ones go into the wide ones. It's how it is for basically every system in the game. Look at, for example, a cram packer.

Thanks!

Originally posted by Smoke of D'van:

All you can do is shift the axis. You really need to keep in mind where your propellers are when building steam engines.

Shame...

Originally posted by Smoke of D'van:

That is correct.

Great!

3 pistons per shaft is better than 2 for both PPM and PPV because shafts don't contribute to power creation, but add their own losses. You're reducing the ratio of shafts per pistons that way.

There's no way of avoiding that back pressure at all and no way of enhancing performance with better ratios that's even remotely convenient.

[CTH2004]

Originally posted by Smoke of D'van:

Originally posted by CTH2004:

Huh, i thought it let you edit it, just didin't make the edits public. well, shame...

Still, even if they aren't relliable, others could build off of it... ah well.

Also, could you link your page or something, so I can find them :)



If I understand you correctly, you essentially want to hook up 3 pistons per crank shaft. It's possible, but it will leave you with an awkward shape, but you will get some bonus PPM because of reduced losses.
How though? Or should I probally just use series pistons if I'm makeing a multi-piston per stage steam engine that covers multiple sides?

(I just think I figured out a way to do it)

Thanks!


Okay, so if I do stageing, it's guarenteed, and minimizing it won't cause much of an improvment, so it's generally not worth it?

Thanks!

Shame...

Great!

3 pistons per shaft is better than 2 for both PPM and PPV because shafts don't contribute to power creation, but add their own losses. You're reducing the ratio of shafts per pistons that way.

There's no way of avoiding that back pressure at all and no way of enhancing performance with better ratios that's even remotely convenient.

Great!

Maybe some time I’ll see if I can enhance performance beyond normal (even though it’s inconvenient), then try to make it more compact.