How to make turrets less volatile?

[Krokoz]

I tried to make big ship for my fleet with big 500mm turrets. And it was very volatile. To the point when it worse than nuke.
Then i tried to make less volatile turret.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1295038414
Added ammo ejectors to remove gunpowder explosion and it became slightly better but not good enough.

So. Whats good usage of Ammo Ejectors? Obviously if ammo not HE, frag or flack then it's not detonate after ammo ejector spill it. But 500mm pure kinetic or EMP ammo are not very userful either.
I can make clipless turret with lots of autoloaders but it still will explode before it deplete it's ammo and it have worse ROF.

[Mortus Eclipse]

The best way to prevent turrets exploding is to put armor around the turret it's self not just as a box or the main/parrent structure as explosions currently only effect the construct that is hit and ignores anything around it. This is being changed and worked on however.

[FourGreenFields]

Originally posted by Mortus Eclipse:

The best way to prevent turrets exploding is to put armor around the turret it's self not just as a box or the main/parrent structure as explosions currently only effect the construct that is hit and ignores anything around it. This is being changed and worked on however.

I'm quite sure that actually got implemented allready with the new explosion algorithm.


As for OP: You're not going to make a cannon not explode. Your goal is to limit the damage of the explosion - either to only the turret, or even only the gun (only the loader is also possible, but not really worth it). And clipless does help with that.
Apart from that, armour the area around the turret. Just use loads of metal (or HA, if you're limited in size here). When using frag, also consider using ERA to stop the fragments.

[Krokoz]

Originally posted by Mortus Eclipse:

The best way to prevent turrets exploding is to put armor around the turret it's self not just as a box or the main/parrent structure as explosions currently only effect the construct that is hit and ignores anything around it. This is being changed and worked on however.

I think it's already chaged. Actualy this was main reason why i start building bigger ship.

Originally posted by FourGreenFields:

As for OP: You're not going to make a cannon not explode. Your goal is to limit the damage of the explosion - either to only the turret, or even only the gun (only the loader is also possible, but not really worth it).

Yeah i know. So i asked how to mitigate damage not remove it completely.
Cause it's a disaster when 5mm 8m shell go off.
Normal ship
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1295739740
Ship after main turret explosion
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1295739761
It's just... whow. I need to make suicide drone with that thing.

Outside changing ammo type to kinetic and EMP only thing i can think is make it fragment and make cone narrow so only thing it's damage is turret cap. I tried to put lots of ERA in front of ammo ejector cause with 500mm there is only 3-4 shells spill on ammo detonation but it's not really working well. Maybe if i mix ammo better. So for example if only 1-2 shaped charge bullets in ammo then it can be stoped by ERA.
Also i think i cant remove all explosion damage from HESH. But at least it's less dangerous if it's explode inside ship if ejectors directed to top.

Originally posted by rotgtie:

The difference between a completely unarmored turret and one with even just 1m of armor to shield its internals is like night and day.

Yeah i know. I play this game for a while now. But most of time i made just puny things. And it's no fun in middle of a game. So i want to make it big.
I know how to armor stuff so it's not that easy to destroy. But when turret go big it also explode really big.



Edit 1:
Plan with ammo mix with shaped charge and another nonexplosive ammo failed. Cause nonexplosive ammo still do enough kinetic damage to destroy ERA. Even EMP.
But it destroy only one ERA block.

Edit 2:
Wait. ERA remove any bullet? Tried with frag and it did not explode

[Awellner]

ERA removes fragmentation from HESH, HEAT and frag shells.
ive heard it also makes explosive shells weaker but its a really expensive way to stop explosive.

theres a few ways to make aps less explosive:
1- use the armored clips, they lag less and have a bit more HP than the open clips
2- add armor around the loaders and coolers on the turret, this helps stopping explosions and fragments from destroying it easily
3- add ejectors, if you build your ship smartly you can use ejectors to eject the shells downwards or upwards when the loader gets hit
4- the final and most expensive one is but using clipless loaders, just use a loader with 1 or 2 inputs on the top/bottom, 1 is usually enough. this way the loader doesnt have a ammo reserve to and the explosion is alot smaller. loaders are more expensive than clips tho so its an expensive solution, also because theres no ammo stored in clips so you need more ammo barrels to load the gun.

i have a platform uploaded detailing how to armor a turret effectivly but i dont have a turret with ejectors on that platform yet.

[Krokoz]

Well. I found out semi reliable method to reduce damage.
two 500mm bullets are actualy only reason why it's somewhat achivable. cause it's only 3-4 bullets to metigate.

ERA in front of ammo ejector are works for shaped charge. It metigate most of damage.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1295957629

For frag and squash it's for some bizzare reason need to have 1 space gap to ERA.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1295989341
If no gap then ammo still go off ~80% of time. i think it's related to bullet spawn mechanics.
BUT for some other bizzare reason amost all time game remove only 1 ERA block instead of 2. So 2 blocks of ERA are enough.
Also sometime it hit 2 nearby blocks so it cant be fully reliable.

Tried make turret bath with ERA.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1295957728
It works and can be done below turret but i dont have any good turret with ejectors below.

Originally posted by Awellner 🐸:

theres a few ways to make aps less explosive:
1- use the armored clips, they lag less and have a bit more HP than the open clips
2- add armor around the loaders and coolers on the turret, this helps stopping explosions and fragments from destroying it easily
3- add ejectors, if you build your ship smartly you can use ejectors to eject the shells downwards or upwards when the loader gets hit
4- the final and most expensive one is but using clipless loaders, just use a loader with 1 or 2 inputs on the top/bottom, 1 is usually enough. this way the loader doesnt have a ammo reserve to and the explosion is alot smaller. loaders are more expensive than clips tho so its an expensive solution, also because theres no ammo stored in clips so you need more ammo barrels to load the gun.

i have a platform uploaded detailing how to armor a turret effectivly but i dont have a turret with ejectors on that platform yet.

1- obviously it will be done at later stage.
2- obviously i already done it. but turret explosion itself are too big.
3- i already done it as you can see. but it will really only work if they are not obstructed. which is usuay bad option. When it not obstructed then it will only works on narrow circumstances which i figure out in that thread.
4- this option is just bad. cause:
a) it still explode if it get hit when battle start.
b) ROF are just bad.

if you want i can share this platform.

[J-Curwen]

If it is on a ship, make a hole in the button and let the ejectors fire into the water, like this:

http://www.fromthedepthsgame.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=27051

[Awellner]

the ROF isnt bad, clipless actually fires 10% faster than loaders with clips, its just very expensive.
if it explodes at the start of the battle it wont explode as big because theres only half the amount of shells stored. after a minute theres only 1 shell per gun stored because it fires it immediatly

below 250mm explosive shells arent even strong enough to detonate nearby loaders when hit. with clips 250mm will explode the whole turret

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/927045449559934983/E5BA5FB94EB9651ACF67ACC17BACF7C479D47220/

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/927045449559938398/D38B3F2BAF27AD9A6B5B9A0E360801FA485255B5/

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1249047555

[Krokoz]

Originally posted by Sandor:

If it is on a ship, make a hole in the button and let the ejectors fire into the water

i dont think it's good
a) with thin bottom first fail of antitorpedos are fatal
b) it's limit size of lower deck. cause i cant place turret on vital components.

Originally posted by Awellner 🐸:

the ROF isnt bad, clipless actually fires 10% faster than loaders with clips, its just very expensive.

it's not really true. for example:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1296534667
base reload time is 22.16. first equal block count is 10
left (5 autoloaders, 5 ammo intake) 22.16 * 1.5 * 1.5 = 49,86 / 5 = 9,972 cooldown
right (2 autoloaders, 4 clip, 4 ammo intake) 22.16 * 0.84 = 18,6144 / = 9,3072 cooldown

or 2m
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1296534913
base reload time is 31.33. first equal block count is 24
left (8 autoloaders, 8 ammo intake) 31.33 * 1.19 * 1.50 = 55,92405 / 8 = 6,99050625 cooldown
right (3 autoloaders, 6 clip, 6 ammo intake) 31.33 * 0.66 = 20,6778 / 3 = 6,8926 cooldown

difference are larger the larger is turret.
for example 2m variant with clip and 48 blocks have 4,0729 cooldown and clipless is 5,5219125 cooldown

Originally posted by Awellner 🐸:

if it explodes at the start of the battle it wont explode as big because theres only half the amount of shells stored.

to be exact 5/3 is 1,66~ if we consider 500mm :D

Originally posted by Awellner 🐸:

below 250mm explosive shells arent even strong enough to detonate nearby loaders when hit. with clips 250mm will explode the whole turret

125mm are more close to not explosive.
yeah. also last time i checked explosion localised where autoloader placed. so checkerboard pattern are can reduce damage even further.
but. larger turret - larger drawback from lower ROF. so it's not really apliable to big turrets. it's just better to place 2-3 puny turrets instead of 1 big. which is no fun on big ship.