Some questions about Advanced Cannons.

[Faffirius26]

When using advanced cannons; is it worth while to add 2-8m autoloaders when the shells take a 1m autoloader?

How exactly do clips work with autoloaders?

What does it take to maintain a high fire-rate for a large amount of time(without belt-fed autoloaders)?

What is better for advanced cannons high-size, low fire rate or compact, high fire rate?

Should I spam inputs wherever they fit on clips/autoloaders? Should I spam clips on autoloaders?

Trickiest question: How many autoloaders does it take to screw a light-bulb?

[luxon001]

The larger the autoloader, the slower it loads, its best to fit the shortest autoloader you can and if your shell length is 2047mm its best to decrease the shell gauge than mount a 3m autoloader...

In FTD its best to use a big 500mm autocannon with 4m autoloaders...
Having enough autoloaders to maintain a constant firerate is almost impossible but brilliant skies made a system that once the cannon shoots all its shells out, it will load up to 50%-75% before it starts firing again...
And they can be "sort of" compact...

So the more autoloaders you have the shorter the "downtime".

[akurathedragonblader]

Originally posted by luxon001:

The larger the autoloader, the slower it loads, its best to fit the shortest autoloader you can and if your shell length is 2047mm its best to decrease the shell gauge than mount a 3m autoloader...

Incorrect, larger autoloaders are faster. Take a look at the gun next time you put a large autoloader in, it will will have <1.0 load time modifier - the final modifier is multiplied by the shell's reload time to get the actual time it takes to reload. I just tested this as well, using two cannons that were exactly alike except for the autoloaders, one was 1m and the other 2m. The 2m loader reloaded first after firing both simultaneously.

Also, more autoloaders vastly increase reload times.

Now, for the other questions...

Originally posted by GATORSKULLvegas:

How exactly do clips work with autoloaders?

Without clips, there is a 1.5 modifier to reload times, meaning if no other factors present, it will take one and a half times as long to load the cannon. A clip will also store bullets in the event that ammo resources are lost(such as the ammo stores exploding), giving you a few shots left in such a situation.

Originally posted by GATORSKULLvegas:

What does it take to maintain a high fire-rate for a large amount of time(without belt-fed autoloaders)?

More barrels, smaller bullets, larger autoloaders, gauge coolers. I recently took apart the Steel Striders Aurora fightercraft, which mounts a really fast-firing six-barrel gun on each wing. It was a pretty complicated series of parts going the entire length of the wing that I still don't quite know how it fired so fast(or flew).

Originally posted by GATORSKULLvegas:

What is better for advanced cannons high-size, low fire rate or compact, high fire rate?

Depends on the purpose of the cannon. For punching through something with heavy armor, you might need a bigger gun. That's the whole fun of advanced cannons, customizing it to your need.

Originally posted by GATORSKULLvegas:

Should I spam inputs wherever they fit on clips/autoloaders? Should I spam clips on autoloaders?

Generally use to input feeders, as each creates bullets and feeds them into the clips. Bullet manufacture times are generally longer than reload times, so having having more can greatly improve fire rates, and especially reduces reload times on belt-feds. More clips will of course increase the amount of bullets for the gun and provide more mount points for input feeders, but take up more space and are more likely to be hit(resulting in a possible ammo explosion). More clips also increase belt-feed reloading times, of course. My advice with clips is only what you need.

[Godfish]

Originally posted by GATORSKULLvegas:

When using advanced cannons; is it worth while to add 2-8m autoloaders when the shells take a 1m autoloader?

yes, but only if you have the space because larger autoloaders have a bonus to how fast they load. you're probably better off just using more 1m loaders, however.

Originally posted by GATORSKULLvegas:

How exactly do clips work with autoloaders?

they give the autoloader a buffer of shells for it to load. for large bursts you probably want to just use autoloaders without clips but doing this will most likely create an overall hit to rounds per minute. clips are also extremely volatile since when one is destroyed all the shells in that clip detonate, causing a chain reaction that could destroy most of your vehicle. this isn't really an issue with sabot or solid however. note that using pure autoloaders without clips is still volatile since if the autoloader is destroyed it will detonate the shell inside it.

Originally posted by GATORSKULLvegas:

What does it take to maintain a high fire-rate for a large amount of time(without belt-fed autoloaders)?

autoloaders, autoloaders, autoloaders. spam as many as you can.
try to put at least 2 input feeders per autoloader-clip assembly since the time to pass shell to clip is usually about twice the reload time from clip.

Originally posted by GATORSKULLvegas:

What is better for advanced cannons high-size, low fire rate or compact, high fire rate?

for HE higher gague is good since it will increase the AOE, but apart from that. from my experience role-specific shells like HEAT, HESH or pendepth frag are better at high gagues and AP is better at low gagues.

Originally posted by GATORSKULLvegas:

Should I spam inputs wherever they fit on clips/autoloaders? Should I spam clips on autoloaders?

yes and yes. if the autoloader has at least one clip the input on the autoloader will feed the clip not the autoloader. this is particularly important for belt-fed autoloaders to decrease downtime as much as possible.

Originally posted by GATORSKULLvegas:

Trickiest question: How many autoloaders does it take to screw a light-bulb?

in my experience around 30, although this can change depending on autoloader length.

[Faffirius26]

Thanks for helping me out guys/gals.

[Doombringer]

I just use straight autoloaders with 2 inputs each (if you get to the point were you only need 1 input per autoloader (due to high complexity), then you really should make a 2nd gun...)

Beltfed needs ammo inputs whereever you can fit them to cut the downtime.
For beltfeds, it's best if the clip size is a multiple of the number of ammo inputs.
(If a clip holds 14 rounds and you have 7 inputs it takes 2x time to reload, if you only had 6 inputs it would take 3x though.)

Damage scales up faster than reload, so usually bigger is better, however large Sabot/AP rounds can poke a hole straight through most ships, so usually end up wasting a lot of damage (they also suck vs shields).
Note that longer shells have significantly worse accuracy (or require a significantly longer barrel).

For normal single 500mm gun turrets I tend to use 56 8m loaders in a 9x9x10 cylinder turret, or 114 3m in the same turret. If you use faster shells you would remove a couple loaders for more hydraulic absorbers/coolers though.
(38 sustained/62burst RPM for 8m, 98 sustained/142burst RPM for 3m)

Due to the way explosions interact with sub-objects, and how explode-y APS can be, it's probably a good idea to put an armor cover over the autoloaders/clips (that is part of the turret)...

Cooldown is: ShellListedCooldown / NumberOfBarrels * 0.92^NumberOfCoolers [ * 0.9 if using a BoreEvacuator]
Cooldown requires much less volume to deal with than reload rate.

[Ossiana]

Originally posted by luxon001:

The larger the autoloader, the slower it loads, its best to fit the shortest autoloader you can and if your shell length is 2047mm its best to decrease the shell gauge than mount a 3m autoloader...

In FTD its best to use a big 500mm autocannon with 4m autoloaders...
Having enough autoloaders to maintain a constant firerate is almost impossible but brilliant skies made a system that once the cannon shoots all its shells out, it will load up to 50%-75% before it starts firing again...
And they can be "sort of" compact...

So the more autoloaders you have the shorter the "downtime".

With my limited knowledge I kind of disagree. Shorter loaders have high loading multipliers and with shorter loaders you are going to put a lot of them on your weapon, and that complexity also increase the multiplier quiet a bit. If you use longer loaders, you will have a smaller multiplier on your loading time, you will need fewer of them which also decrease the multiplier.

[Ossiana]

Originally posted by Gearling:

Originally posted by luxon001:

The larger the autoloader, the slower it loads, its best to fit the shortest autoloader you can and if your shell length is 2047mm its best to decrease the shell gauge than mount a 3m autoloader...

In FTD its best to use a big 500mm autocannon with 4m autoloaders...
Having enough autoloaders to maintain a constant firerate is almost impossible but brilliant skies made a system that once the cannon shoots all its shells out, it will load up to 50%-75% before it starts firing again...
And they can be "sort of" compact...

So the more autoloaders you have the shorter the "downtime".

With my limited knowledge I kind of disagree. Shorter loaders have high loading multipliers and with shorter loaders you are going to put a lot of them on your weapon, and that complexity also increase the multiplier quiet a bit. If you use longer loaders, you will have a smaller multiplier on your loading time, you will need fewer of them which also decrease the multiplier.

of course the 1m drum loader is a special exception.

[FourGreenFields]

Originally posted by Godfish:

clips are also extremely volatile since when one is destroyed all the shells in that clip detonate, causing a chain reaction that could destroy most of your vehicle. this isn't really an issue with sabot or solid however

It is. Gunpowder will still create an explosion.
A gunpowderless rail shell would probably be harmless indeed though.

[akurathedragonblader]

Hmm, some of what I said might not be correct. I was testing my battleship design against the Steel Striders Excalibur-class battleship. Its largest guns are 450mmx4000m, mine are 402mmx3520. Its bullets' base reload time is 37.66 seconds, mine is 33.6 seconds. My autoloader setup gives it a 0.35x reload modifier, while the Excalibur's loader setup has a 0.78x modifier. Beside all that and the bullet config(mine is APHE, Excalibur uses HESH), the guns are more or less identical(including the fact that both are actually three identical cannons on one turret).

Somehow, the Exaclibur's guns fire twice as fast as mine. Does it have something to do with the fact I haven't put a single skill point into anything but tools(ie no Gunnery boost to reload)?

[luxon001]

Originally posted by akurathedragonblader:

Hmm, some of what I said might not be correct. I was testing my battleship design against the Steel Striders Excalibur-class battleship. Its largest guns are 450mmx4000m, mine are 402mmx3520. Its bullets' base reload time is 37.66 seconds, mine is 33.6 seconds. My autoloader setup gives it a 0.35x reload modifier, while the Excalibur's loader setup has a 0.78x modifier. Beside all that and the bullet config(mine is APHE, Excalibur uses HESH), the guns are more or less identical(including the fact that both are actually three identical cannons on one turret).

Somehow, the Exaclibur's guns fire twice as fast as mine. Does it have something to do with the fact I haven't put a single skill point into anything but tools(ie no Gunnery boost to reload)?

Probably because it has a lower gauge and more gauge coolers...
Autoloaders do not affect rate of fire...

And AI has them skills on 0 soo...

[FourGreenFields]

Originally posted by luxon001:

Autoloaders do not affect rate of fire...

I'm sorry to word it like that but.... u like fooing wot m8?
Autoloaders limit the reload time. You cannot shoot a shell before it's loaded.

Originally posted by akurathedragonblader:

Hmm, some of what I said might not be correct. I was testing my battleship design against the Steel Striders Excalibur-class battleship. Its largest guns are 450mmx4000m, mine are 402mmx3520. Its bullets' base reload time is 37.66 seconds, mine is 33.6 seconds. My autoloader setup gives it a 0.35x reload modifier, while the Excalibur's loader setup has a 0.78x modifier. Beside all that and the bullet config(mine is APHE, Excalibur uses HESH), the guns are more or less identical(including the fact that both are actually three identical cannons on one turret).

Somehow, the Exaclibur's guns fire twice as fast as mine. Does it have something to do with the fact I haven't put a single skill point into anything but tools(ie no Gunnery boost to reload)?

How many autoloaders are you using? The complexity modifier is just diminishing returns, so more autoloaders -> faster reload.
And cooldown. Using APHE you're likely using loads of gunpowder, which HESH doesn't need. More gunpowder -> longer cooldown; more cooling ducts, and a bore evacuator -> shorter cooldown.

[akurathedragonblader]

Originally posted by FourGreenFields:

How many autoloaders are you using? The complexity modifier is just diminishing returns, so more autoloaders -> faster reload.
And cooldown. Using APHE you're likely using loads of gunpowder, which HESH doesn't need. More gunpowder -> longer cooldown; more cooling ducts, and a bore evacuator -> shorter cooldown.

Just one long one. I'll probably redesign the cannon and see if multiple smaller autoloaders improve firing rate, since that's probably it.

I've test-fired the guns on both ships, both load faster than they cool off, and my cooldown is only marginally longer than the Excalibur's.

EDIT: Figured it out now, it was indeed multiple autoloaders. The Excalibur gun has 8 or so autoloaders allowing for several consecutive shots. Due to less space owing to the fact that my ships has a shallower draft and the Excalibur's turret housings go right to the bottom of the hull(mine cannot without significant redesign), I have to settle for 3. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if I can replace all the turrets because in order to fit the taller turret housing I had to reduce the size of the mainframe room(the gun was on the room's ceiling), removing all the GPUs to a different room connected via wifi.

On the plus side, the barrel cooldown is significantly shorter, so it can pull those 3 shots off in less time, and if I can replace all the guns, more turrets to fire with.