Combat mechanic

[Renzo]

is there any way to stop this dam game from pulling my forces out of play before a fight... i play the designer and fights start without pulling my entire force out of play so why the hell is normal game doing it? all engines reset to "just started".. the steam engine i had warming up is now stone cold. this never used to be a thing when i first got the game and will be the 1 mechanic that will ruin this game and will drop my recomendation for the game to negative.

[Renzo]

and i dont care that it drops my "out of play" stuff, but the ship that is starting the fight? why!
and the fact i can move closer to the enemy while out of play seems abit dumb, combat phase begins weve spotted each other.... both sides dont fire they jst move closer untill i can jump from my ship to the enemy ship as they spawn and my SMG does all the work... there must be some way i can impose the designer way of doin combat into campaign mode?

[FourGreenFields]

Originally posted by -2K Renzo:

why the hell is normal game doing it?

Simple. Allows you to deploy your forces in proper fighting formation, select which craft to spawn first, call another force within a certain distance to aid you in battle, etc..
I am quite sure than remembering steam pressure is something the devs will implement at some point. Up until then, use electric engines as a stop-gap (will also be usefull once the shield changes happen), or fuel engines. I'll just ask on the Discord server now.

[Javelin99]

Originally posted by -2K Renzo:

and i dont care that it drops my "out of play" stuff, but the ship that is starting the fight? why!
and the fact i can move closer to the enemy while out of play seems abit dumb, combat phase begins weve spotted each other.... both sides dont fire they jst move closer untill i can jump from my ship to the enemy ship as they spawn and my SMG does all the work... there must be some way i can impose the designer way of doin combat into campaign mode?

There is a difference between the campaign and designer.

Designer is meant for experimentation, seeing what sticks, and designing anything you can and also perhaps cannot dream of. Using X to spawn a enemy for testing doesn't do this because not only is it basically a building sandbox mode, but the enemies are primarily from how I see it, for testing. Everything inserted is instant, and all settings of the campaign, including the combat feature, is disabled. Thus allowing seamless testing, and making it easier.

The campaign however is basically a combat-building-sandbox which has resources, predetermined modifiable settings, and faction placements being predetermined with AI. So thus if the sandbox way was implemented, and all of it was seamless, then you'd have tens of thousands of AI ships, around a dozen fortresses, and basically over 900K parts loading in instantaneously. All forces out of play would always be in play, and in of itself, the game would be 100% unplayable whatsoever.

The designer also doesn't pull your forces out of play, because not only is it not the campaign, but it as said, is a building/tester half of the game. If it did pull your forces out of play, it'd take longer to actually test it. Thus rendering it void entirely. The campaign, even if it didn't require it, uses it for multiple reasons including anti-lag purposes. One of the other reasons is to see what the enemy has, and if any reinforceing fleets you have can combat it. Another I speculate, is so the fights are fairer, and stops players from spawning in millions of ships and planes to obliterate a single enemy. As that would break the game, and also the player's computer in the process.

The steam engines have always been buggy in the game and people, even before I got the game but played it on friends PCs, or watched lathrix, has complained about the issue. Except some reports primarily being the steam engines just eating your resources up despite being inactive. However some people simply just never get the bug.

Fights in campaign are not started because the fleet you have decides to go and attack. All fleets, including from the enemy, have a view sight. It is the giant outline of a circular orb that surrounds a fleet icon. Any unit closest to this orb will be forced into an attack. You can however bring nearby fleets closer, and if they at least have a inch of their icon on the enemy orb-outline, they can be spawned in to the battle. If there are two fleets in different positons coming at an enemy, but the enemy is moving at a strange angle, then even if both appear to be extremely close, or on the outline, the one actually inside of it will be the one active in the battle. Also getting close isn't stupid, considering that even without god designs enabled, some or most factions have at least one ship or something that might as well be considered god. Getting close to them would allow a fairer battle. Also the screen wasn't actually intended for that anyway, and was mainly just the players deciding to use it for such a survival tactic, which eventually became popular. The original use of the screen was to allow flying units to not only become active, but always start at their maximum altitude upon the start of the battle. As evidenced by holding down the button, and the more you move the curser the higher the altitude can go for flyers. This was a fix to a long dead-now problem, in which all flyers either didn't work during initiating a battle, or they always started in the water.

Even if the designer way could be worked into doing combat without any problems whatsoever, it'd not fit. Considering the campaign is part of the main game, and not a testing arena. Ai including ships and air units are literally built by Ai rather than instantly spawned in. (Besides the very low amount that spawn close to you when you start a new campaign.) AMong various other reasons why that wouldn't work.

Also I'm guessing you got the game with either some "good" bug, or a early or very very early version of the game and stopped playing until now, because some/most of all of this has been a thing for quite some time. Some being over a year, infact.



Anymore questions?

[Javelin99]

Originally posted by FourGreenFields:

Originally posted by -2K Renzo:

why the hell is normal game doing it?

Simple. Allows you to deploy your forces in proper fighting formation, select which craft to spawn first, call another force within a certain distance to aid you in battle, etc..
I am quite sure than remembering steam pressure is something the devs will implement at some point. Up until then, use electric engines as a stop-gap (will also be usefull once the shield changes happen), or fuel engines. I'll just ask on the Discord server now.

This is also a correct answer for you, Mr. 2k.

[Renzo]

its not that i want every ship in play, lets say theres 1 enemy fleet coming, 4 paddleboats i send 4 of my ships of roughly the same vaule, why does it need to pull my 4 ships out of play to then put them back in play, i totaly understand pulling every other fleet out of play or my pc would prolly melt from block overload. im guess what im getting at is i want to be able to use Real time to engage an enemy fleet with my fleet, these 2 will be in play anyway while they battle so it isnt saving on any GPU CPU overload. but no i gotta bring up the map start engagment, pick which spawns first 2nd 3rd 4th then begin battle, zoom back to game view.

and yeh i got this game real early on but dont wanna burn out playin it before its finnished, so i stop by when i see a large update play some sandbox then have a mess around on a large player v cpu map, i know this has been a mechanic for a while i jst hoped sum1 knew a way around it sinse the game is modable as i find it abit tedious.

i want to lead a glorious charge into battle with my fleet behind me.

after a lil thought i can understand this mechanic for huuuuge ships if 3 75k block ships ran into a similar sized enemy then yeh its gotta be 1 at a time. so a scaling RTS you can set a limit on so you dont kill your computer lol if total blocks is above a certain limit pull all forces

[Renzo]

and a quick question if you all dnt mind. how do i re-orientate a structure? on Netar i captured the airship gantry to the east, i gave it north and east defences, it went out of play, and wen it came back into play it was defending South and west, the whole structure rotated 180 degrees lol

[Javelin99]

Originally posted by -2K Renzo:

its not that i want every ship in play, lets say theres 1 enemy fleet coming, 4 paddleboats i send 4 of my ships of roughly the same vaule, why does it need to pull my 4 ships out of play to then put them back in play, i totaly understand pulling every other fleet out of play or my pc would prolly melt from block overload. im guess what im getting at is i want to be able to use Real time to engage an enemy fleet with my fleet, these 2 will be in play anyway while they battle so it isnt saving on any GPU CPU overload. but no i gotta bring up the map start engagment, pick which spawns first 2nd 3rd 4th then begin battle, zoom back to game view.

and yeh i got this game real early on but dont wanna burn out playin it before its finnished, so i stop by when i see a large update play some sandbox then have a mess around on a large player v cpu map, i know this has been a mechanic for a while i jst hoped sum1 knew a way around it sinse the game is modable as i find it abit tedious.

i want to lead a glorious charge into battle with my fleet behind me.

after a lil thought i can understand this mechanic for huuuuge ships if 3 75k block ships ran into a similar sized enemy then yeh its gotta be 1 at a time. so a scaling RTS you can set a limit on so you dont kill your computer lol if total blocks is above a certain limit pull all forces

Then in that case it is as I had said and also said by FGF.
Tactical fleet screen for placement etc, and flyer altitude. Also for the block count, and etc. If I just kept repeating then this'd get nowhere lol. real time/live battle would be fun, but technically you could still do that. However the enemy most likely remains out of play anyways. You can just sail with a in-play fleet towards the enemy, without using the map. However it is time consuming, and will inevitably lead to that screen anyway. However you could do that, especially with flying units since they may be extremely faster. It would still be time consuming due to how massive the actual world is. The screen however is unavoidable, but I will say that it is useful. Primarily when you start getting past DWG, and past the 2 other factions and head further north. Since that is when you will be praising that it exists. Since it helps ALOOOOOOOOOOOOOT with those northern ♥♥♥♥♥.

But I do agree that at least at the beginning factions, the screen is a tad unnecessary besides one of it's purposes of altitude management. Primarily if you're like me, and sometimes just send 1 massive ship to obliterate a enemy fleet. Considering there really is no use in moving it closer to the enemy, unless it was a very weak melee build. Can't use altitude on a normal boat.

But I did find that there is technically a glitch with the screen for subs, where if you change altitude, they will start submerged slightly. That helps with some of my slower subs, which it takes quite a bit of time for them to actually dive. (They are made out of wood and alloy, so they always float to the top. And when they do get to the surface, it is nearly impossible to make them dive.) Unless that glitch is actually a implemented feature, but if it is then I don't understand why it won't let me fully submerge the submarines.

[Javelin99]

Originally posted by -2K Renzo:

and a quick question if you all dnt mind. how do i re-orientate a structure? on Netar i captured the airship gantry to the east, i gave it north and east defences, it went out of play, and wen it came back into play it was defending South and west, the whole structure rotated 180 degrees lol

You could try moving it around. I don't think there is a option for rotating things in the actual campaign. Or perhaps there is and I never noticed.

[Renzo]

i do tend to mostly use naval forces including hover tanks, my own air designs seems to get shot down way to fast but the premade designs seem to make some attempt to dodge incoming fire or try to out fly a missle, mine seem to be blind to incoming fire (with detection equipment installed) no dout a flaw im overlooking

[Renzo]

it wont allow a structure to be moved at all, its something to do with merging the out of play structure with something thats alredy in motion, it seems to point towards the destination (sometimes) as if its atleast trying. i just thought maybe theres something ive overlooked that alows me to rotate them, i also had a mountain top radar dish, 3 hours into game i notice its not up there any more its on the sea floor at my starting resource area lol this i can not duplicate but has happened in previous versions.

[Javelin99]

Originally posted by -2K Renzo:

i do tend to mostly use naval forces including hover tanks, my own air designs seems to get shot down way to fast but the premade designs seem to make some attempt to dodge incoming fire or try to out fly a missle, mine seem to be blind to incoming fire (with detection equipment installed) no dout a flaw im overlooking

In the AI tab I believe, there is a thing called a munition warner and/or laser warner. If you place that anywhere on the air unit, as long as it can see, it might make the AI try to dodge enemy fire. There I think is also a ACB option for it, but I definitely know that there is one for incoming missiles.

You could also try using a APS gun with a secondary weapon control block/anti missile/munition box, and a AA mantlet. A laser system for larger air units can also be used to take down missiles and shells, but whether it is instant or not depends on the laser size. A smaller laser can be/is weak, but can easily obliterate most DWG shells.

[Renzo]

hmm i thought the warning blocks simply told the point defence blocks to fire at incoming munitions ie tellin the laser to shoot down the incoming missles. this cud be it as i dnt use these blocks on small aircraft ever sinse im tryin to be fast and agile, gonna test this ty

[Javelin99]

Originally posted by -2K Renzo:

hmm i thought the warning blocks simply told the point defence blocks to fire at incoming munitions ie tellin the laser to shoot down the incoming missles. this cud be it as i dnt use these blocks on small aircraft ever sinse im tryin to be fast and agile, gonna test this ty

Well the laser warner I know more of. It allows the AI to trigger laser countermeasures, such as smoke, when any part of the unit with it is being attacked by lasers.

[Vectura]

And the munitions warner allows LAMS and anti-missile turrets to shoot down missiles and large shells