Lengthy Feedback Post for Hollywood Animals Demo

[Waylander]

FEEDBACK FOR HOLLYWOOD ANIMALS

I will preface this by saying I work in software development full-time as well as do hobbyist game design and film-making. Normally I would not do this without being paid but I like the premise of this game so I took time out of my schedule to write this feedback and have placed it in its own thread as it’s quite lengthy.

I played 12 hours of the demo and then uninstalled because of these issues. Some of the things mentioned might be alleviated with more experience in the game. With that said here is some of what I think needs to be fixed with some quick ideas on how to fix the issues:

- Poor UI. While it is nice to have a map of your studio with the buildings I should not have to scroll around the screen to access menus from each building and of each film in development. The awkward zoom levels and large scrolling area made it annoying to navigate. Once a player leaves the area the buildings and current films in production should be pinned to the left or right side of the screen for quick access to their menus.

- Surfacing of important information. While there are some pop-ups with important information there needs to be a better method of surfacing things like the financials of the studio. My suggestion would be to give the player as a studio owner a secretary who gives a monthly report that the player needs to read with a link to each important piece of info. This would include Studios finances (incoming and outgoing), staff contracts, movie schedules, research status etc. Currently it’s far too easy to go bankrupt or have staff contracts lapse etc without knowing it or having to click through a lot of menus to find it. Your secretary could also offer suggestions on the best way to get back in the black like fire staff, can this movie etc.

- Speed of navigating UI. There are too many animations for entering and exiting different screens and menus. This is a sim with a lot of navigation and repetition of navigation required. As an example the animations to enter staff negotiation screens are particularly egregious as you wait for the opening office door animation, then the modifiers for that staff member appearing one-by-one, then the negotiation scale going up and down before the player can start interacting with the negotiation screen. Multiply that by 8-10 staff I might need to hire for a single film and this quickly becomes infuriating and has me wanting to quit the game. Instantly show a negotiation screen with all relevant info and options. See Football Manager for negotiating with new hires. This is one example of a thing this game does in multiple menus and screens.

- High Cost of Buildings. If the features of the game are locked behind building more buildings yet the initial cost of building them PLUS ongoing costs is prohibitive it means you can look at the buildings you need to advance your studio in a menu but not be able to buy them. If this extremely slow pace of building is what you are after you should advise the player to start only with a few buildings and not make the other buildings essential to making movies and avoiding negative outcomes in events.

- Making and releasing movies is the only way to make money. Good sim and strategy games often have multiple viable routes to success. In Mad Games Tycoon you can focus on arcade games and cabinets, or become a AAA studio, or make mobile games only etc. In Football Manager you can make huge marquee signings only, or rely on your youth system to sell players on, or scout South America for good young players and sell them on after getting them experience etc.
Hollywood Animal needs more variety in this regard as currently it’s just making movie after movie and releasing it to make money. For example I could focus on tech for movies and make a good income stream for inventing and patenting tech (Pixar) that other studios must pay to use, or I could become a horror film studio that churns out small low budget horror films that are quick to make but each one makes small profit, or I could gamble the studios future on one huge tentpole film each year, or I could focus on hiring excellent editors and post production techniques and buy already shot films and improve them and release them making a steady profit from each one, or I could hire high potential actors and get them experience in my small films then have big studios buy out their contracts and make money that way. Currently it seems there is only 1 way to play the game which leads to less replay-ability and the game feeling one note.

- Making movies takes far too long with no variation between films. For a game about making movies the actual fun part, the making of the movies, particularly the filming portion of them, takes far too long. Writing a script can take 90-100 days, filming 100+ days etc. And this is for every film, even small dramas without many sets. This needs variety with Epic films taking longer to make but smaller films like dramas set in just a few rooms or horror movies set only in the woods. I am aware that the choice of sets being exterior vs interior changes the time but no matter what you choose it’s too long to wait and it’s the same for every film you make.

- Expanding your lot. I was unable to place all of the buildings in the game as there seemed to be no way to expand the studio lot. So the player would spend time to research buildings and then couldn’t place them and is locked out of whole portions of the game.

- Too many negative events. Where are the beneficial events in this game? Almost every event in this game is negative or has multiple choices with negative outcomes, even the positive choices usually lead to a neutral outcome. Where are the random positive events that would give benefits to speed up filming of a movie or having a huge boost to a movie's final rating. Like a young actor who makes what might have been a low rated film but gets so into his craft that he happens to produce an incredible performance that wows critics and makes the film a smash hit.
Even building level 2 scenery at the studio just stopped staff from leaving for other studios but didn’t boost their productivity or attract new stars etc. Actors and directors that you have on staff should get synergy and produce better films together etc or there seems not much benefit to hiring them to contract vs hiring them for a single film.

- Awards for staff. There are only yearly awards for films and the sales of those films. There should also be awards for actors, directors, cinematographers that boost their reputation and skill and the audience for their films. These awards seasons could be something the player specifically looks to release films for and builds more ticket sales for those films. Both the nominations for the awards, then the actual giving of the awards. You should also be able to re-release award winning films in cinemas after they win an award and they could earn more money.

- No clearly defined seasons or time. Time in this game just seems to tick forward with everything feeling the same. This could be displayed with a timeline at the top of the screen which shows important dates with major events, award seasons, awards shows etc that the player could click into to see more info on.

- World Events. While there do seem to be some events it didn’t have an effect on me as the player. If there are world events they could lead to popular genres e.g. during the great depression people want to watch adventure, action or comedy to find relief so these genres would be far more profitable at that time. Of course high quality films of any genre would still sell well but not as well.

- Feeling of fun. The developers and testers of this game need to play through multiple campaigns of this game and ask themselves if they are having fun at every stage. Game feel is hugely important and at this time the game does not feel fun to play.

- Lack of settings for scripts. The Settings for films are far too limited. Maybe this is limited only in the demo but having just 5 different settings for every single genre of film is woeful. You are relying on players' imagination in simulation games like this so you need to be sparking their imagination at every chance you get.

- Lack of antagonists and plots for films. There is a lack of antagonists for films. In a drama or comedy the antagonist might be as simple as a school bully or an awful boss or an abusive spouse or any other number of other mundane things. Right now the selection of Witch, Murderer, serial killer etc only works for certain genres and settings. The combination and good combinations of these roles is limited as a result. I know you don’t HAVE to pick an antagonist but the current list is far too limited.
Same goes for plots where you can’t pick a plot that works well with some protagonists or antagonists and supporting casts. There needs to be far more variety.

- There is potential ability for staff but no way to view it. Ability of staff is capped but the cap is hidden from players. There should at least be a star rating for staff potential so you know what you are buying into. Currently it’s an arbitrary hidden limit that at some point I will hit. Having potential ability displayed and having it added to a staff member's long term contract cost would add more mechanics and interest to the game and the staff management aspect. For instance you could hire high potential actors and put them up for loan to make movies at other studios and they would come back after some time with an enhanced reputation and experience level.

- Having staff leave your studio doesn’t have to be a bad thing. Having staff bought from you doesn’t have to be a bad thing. You could have a stable of young, high potential actors in your films when you are a smaller studio and big studios could come in and pay a premium to buy out their contracts. Some could still defect and break their contracts so the negotiation events happen and the legal team is still needed but that could be the expectation rather than the norm. As your studio grows less staff would want to leave based on your reputation. This turnover of staff keeps the game feeling fresh and adds constant new challenges for the player to keep them engaged and playing long saves. Look at Football Manager for inspiration here.

- Single rating for staff quality. Having a single rating for the quality of actors, directors etc is not a good way to simulate this industry. A much better way would be to split it at least into a few categories at least Experience and Reputation for all staff with an additional Appearance category for actors. This would help account for things like when a young actor making their first film is incredible and is a hit their experience might not be as high but their reputation could go through the roof from only one good film. Otherwise the staff rating is just a linear progression which does not simulate the real life movie industry.
Appearance for actors is essential for a visual medium like film. You could have ugly actors being good at certain roles, beautiful actors being good for certain roles, strong actors etc you get the idea. This could make it so that beautiful actors wouldn't need to have much reputation or experience to make excellent action films etc. Think of how first time actors without good acting skills but good looks can make hit films.

- Profit from films. My cheaper films with a poor star rating (3.4/10) were just as profitable as excellent quality films (9.6/10). What incentive is there to pay for great staff for a film when the profit difference between a low quality film is negligible? The balance needs to be fixed here.

- Script names should be the last thing you do. It’s infuriating having to name a script before you pick all the elements of the script. This should be done at the end or have it on the same screen as the other elements.

- Add Horror genre Why is there no Horror genre? There could be some others you might add for variety as well.

These elements combined meant that I liked the idea of this game far more than actually playing it. I have many other ideas on how to improve this game and how to implement those improvements but those were the main ones and I have already spent several hours summarising my thoughts so this will do.

Maybe some of these things I have mentioned are in the game and they are obfuscated or poorly surfaced to, or discoverable by, the player and if so that should be fixed.

In its current state I would not purchase this game in Early Access but it’s a great idea for a game which hasn’t been executed well since Lionhead’s 2005 classic ‘The Movies’. I sincerely hope these devs put the work in as they could have a huge hit with the correct alterations.

[Doomeetrue]

Originally posted by Waylander:

I will preface this by saying I work in software development full-time as well as do hobbyist game design and film-making. I give this kind of feedback for a living so normally I would not do this without being paid but I like the premise of this game so I took time out of my schedule to write this feedback and have placed it in its own thread as it’s quite lengthy.

Wow, thank you for gracing us commoners with your invaluable feedback.

[Sanny_Sunshine]

Great feedback. I can agree on almost everything, especially on ''Feeling of fun'' and ''Too many negative events'' . It's not all so dark after all.

[Waylander]

Originally posted by Doomeetrue:

Originally posted by Waylander:

I will preface this by saying I work in software development full-time as well as do hobbyist game design and film-making. I give this kind of feedback for a living so normally I would not do this without being paid but I like the premise of this game so I took time out of my schedule to write this feedback and have placed it in its own thread as it’s quite lengthy.

Wow, thank you for gracing us commoners with your invaluable feedback.

You’re welcome.

[goldberg80]

I disagree with most things you said. I have 35 hours in the demo. Most games I purchased, I spent less hours on. And it's just the demo! I have never put that much time on a demo. I also spent hundreds of hours in Hollywood Mogul in the 90s and then some more on The Movies. Therefore, I think my opinion matters more to them than yours because I am their target market.

This game isn't for you because you expect it to be a simulation able to emulate your real life hobby instead of what it is meant to be, a neat fun tycoon game. I have not had has much fun on a tycoon game in years. This game will be a success.

For example, I don't think real life football managers think the current football managers games on PCs are fun for them but a huge amount of people spend 100s of hours of fun and buy the games annually.

This game isn't for you. That's ok, you were never the intended target market. Move on, that's ok.

[Waylander]

Originally posted by goldberg80:

I disagree with most things you said. I have 35 hours in the demo. Most games I purchased, I spent less hours on. And it's just the demo! I have never put that much time on a demo. I also spent hundreds of hours in Hollywood Mogul in the 90s and then some more on The Movies. Therefore, I think my opinion matters more to them than yours because I am their target market.

This game isn't for you because you expect it to be a simulation able to emulate your real life hobby instead of what it is meant to be, a neat fun tycoon game. I have not had has much fun on a tycoon game in years. This game will be a success.

For example, I don't think real life football managers think the current football managers games on PCs are fun for them but a huge amount of people spend 100s of hours of fun and buy the games annually.

This game isn't for you. That's ok, you were never the intended target market. Move on, that's ok.

I think I am indeed the target market and would buy the game with the right fixes. I am not advocating for a holistic change of direction but for an improvement to what is currently there.

I have coached football for years and still find Football Manager fun - I have played the series since 90s. But you have missed the point here. I am directing them to Football Manager for how to handle certain aspects of a simulation, not so they can make a similar game.

You're welcome to your opinion, this is mine.

[JesusLovesYou]

I disagree with many of the points listed, but the speed of navigating UI is absolutely something that needs to change. It's so tedious waiting for the cutesy animations when hiring a lot of staff.

[Nursultan Talyakbay]

I agree with EVERYTHING Waylander has stated in his very thorough analysis of the significant problems this game has.. Why does a cheap budget movie take as long as a massive AAA blockbuster to film and why do they produce the same profit? What is the point if the worst movie you can possibly make still makes a profit? Why is there no horror genre!? Why is there only one type of actor rating (pretty boy Henry Cavill is not the same type of actor as Phillip Seymour Hoffman for example)... etc etc... I'm not going to re-list all the points he has eloquently made but I suggest to the devs to read the analysis carefully and to play games like Football Manager, Mad Games Tycoon and The Movies to get good ideas on how to make this a better simulator. If it is not a realistic simulator, then it is a random pointless clickfest and that is not something that interests me one iota.

I believe that this game has potential to be amazing, but you are going to have to work on all the things that Waylander has outlined to fix this currently broken game. As it is, I have uninstalled it and have zero inclination to play it until these numerous and critical issues are addressed!

[tommyw]

I agree with the staff experience system. It's one dimensional, 1 star, 2 stars, 3 stars etc, but I think it should be two dimensional. Like in the Football Manager you mentioned, there are players who are good at attacking, but bad at defending, fast, but not smart, etc. Here I'd split it maybe by genre? In real life you have actors who are good at comedy but would suck at dramas (etc Chris Rock) and the other way around.

I don't get the idea of the cap. It's weird. I want to build a team with a potential, I want to go through things good or bad with these people, make history and then look back and have nice memories tied to certain people. The UFO X-Com games are a good example, where you built a team and remembered good soldiers you went hard times with.
With the cap it's like: "oh, you reached 4 stars limit? you're fired. Next!". It's pointless

[Phobos]

I think this post is super useful.
So many people undervaluing ussefull and well explained information

Hope that devs take advantage of free tips like this post. This game have massive potential. I love the demo! but can be far better

[Obiwan]

I hope the devs see this post for the pretension and hubris it wreaks of.

There are some good points but the moment someone goes out their way to make it seem like they have authority on a topic is usually the moment you know they don't

Works in software dev not game dev
does game design as a hobby yet doesn't seem to understand this one.
highlights bad UIX but then references Football Manager and the Movies.

Having the nerve to imply this summary would normally have been paid for - yet those of us who make a living in THIS industry can see instantly that it's not worth a penny.

All it does is compare this game to very commercially accepted examples in the genre which proves that the "design as a hobby" stands true because there is ZERO understanding for what this game is trying to do and why it will set itself apart.

Case in point "too many negative events" - this game is not holding your hand it is not going to feed your ego - it feels like you do not even understand the design concept and yet you preface the post implying you should be considered an authority on the topic.

Game does not feel fun to play - I've replayed the demo a ludicrous amount of times ... the ONLY thing that i find annoying is the initial sequence at the start which is nice and informative the first time and a PITA and blocker the 10th time.

But "Feeling of Fun" is so subjective and unequivocal proof that the OP thinks they know their stuff - and in an another industry people might pay but in this one - from what i can tell if the OP was the game designer we would have a very bland, boring and generic experience that catered to egos rather than had conviction in what it is going for.

Make no mistake OP this game will succeed without your early access support. Not everything you say in this thread is fact or the definitive best solution and these guys aren't making their first game either ... you are a hobbyist these guys do it for a living and you come in here making such a condescending and patronising post implying that their game would be better if they just accepted you know more?

I would love to know what consultancy firm you represent so I can make sure to never use them because if this summary is something you feel someone should pay for you are out your mind.

This post is an example of someone thinking cause they know one thing they know the other and because they dabble it must mean they are the best at whatever they do ... in reality there is a reason you just dabble and these guys have multiple projects that have been successes and published by some major players .. this is no small feat ... you went about this post ALL wrong and it just gives the impression you are a know-it-all wannabe

You seem to take a stance that because YOU do not find some things fun it is not fun ... no objectivity whatsoever just 100% i don't think this is right you must do it this way and if you do i know what I am talking about cause I made sure to preface the post saying it.

Respectfully your way of thinking is exactly why it will only remain a hobby ... you can't even understand what these guys are doing and are so filled with hubris that rather than even attempt to step back and appreciate it, you assume everything they are doing is wrong and insist it be changed based off of you extensive and non-existent knowledge and experience.


This post is vile.

[Obiwan]

Originally posted by Waylander:

Originally posted by goldberg80:

I disagree with most things you said. I have 35 hours in the demo. Most games I purchased, I spent less hours on. And it's just the demo! I have never put that much time on a demo. I also spent hundreds of hours in Hollywood Mogul in the 90s and then some more on The Movies. Therefore, I think my opinion matters more to them than yours because I am their target market.

This game isn't for you because you expect it to be a simulation able to emulate your real life hobby instead of what it is meant to be, a neat fun tycoon game. I have not had has much fun on a tycoon game in years. This game will be a success.

For example, I don't think real life football managers think the current football managers games on PCs are fun for them but a huge amount of people spend 100s of hours of fun and buy the games annually.

This game isn't for you. That's ok, you were never the intended target market. Move on, that's ok.

I think I am indeed the target market and would buy the game with the right fixes. I am not advocating for a holistic change of direction but for an improvement to what is currently there.

I have coached football for years and still find Football Manager fun - I have played the series since 90s. But you have missed the point here. I am directing them to Football Manager for how to handle certain aspects of a simulation, not so they can make a similar game.

You're welcome to your opinion, this is mine.

IF you want negative events removed and or reduced you very clearly ARE seeking a holistic change to cater to your ego ... and let's not pretend that you do not have an ego with an opening post like that.

You know your industry sir, you do not know this one and you do not posess the objective mindset or broader understanding of game design to appreciate WHAT this game is doing to even suggest that your summary is worthy of payment.

It is absolutely not and you are not the smartest guy in the room in this particular instance and come off looking foolish implying you are and getting it so wrong.

[Nursultan Talyakbay]

Obiwan you must be playing a completely different game because I tried this game for about 2 hours and couldn't stomach a second more... It is absolutely riddled with problems that need to be addressed before I would be willing to try it again. I have read your post and waylander's carefully, and I believe it is YOU SIR who are coming off looking foolish. He has made nothing but good suggestions about a game that is currently simply not fun to play and does not feel realistic in any way whatsoever... it is utterly immersion breaking when your choices do not seem to matter or make a shred of difference. My guess is Obiwan is one of the butthurt devs in disguise... Shed your ego friend and hate not, step into the light

[Obiwan]

Originally posted by Nursultan Talyakbay:

Obiwan you must be playing a completely different game because I tried this game for about 2 hours and couldn't stomach a second more... It is absolutely riddled with problems that need to be addressed before I would be willing to try it again. I have read your post and waylander's carefully, and I believe it is YOU SIR who are coming off looking foolish. He has made nothing but good suggestions about a game that is currently simply not fun to play and does not feel realistic in any way whatsoever... it is utterly immersion breaking when your choices do not seem to matter or make a shred of difference.

One guy making his first post since 2017 the other since 2013 ... coming out the woodwork to stick it to a game that they claim is "unfun" ... meanwhile on Earth ...

That's my point and why i encourage more objectivity .. i am under no illusions that there are some very "marmite" choices in this game BUT I am also aware that speaking in absolutes on the topic of game design is not smart.

So calling me foolish for being objective is not gonna upset me.

You are not wrong and i said there are some great points made BUT they are marred but what is a really vile display of hubris and pretension.

If you read my post as carefully as you claim you will see I raised the comparison of UIX and FM and the Movies, i didn't touch on the good points because they are GOOD points but he ruined it by being so utterly arrogant and pretentious from the offset.

But again you are sighting realism and "fun to play" ... alot of people say Dark souls is not fun to play because it kicks you in the teeth so you likely wouldn't agree with me if you didn't like DS - doesn't mean that it is objectively not fun. THAT is the point i was making it is the wrong position to take.

There is providing opinion and then there is flat out deciding one way is the only way and respectfully just because you find the game unfun and i don't doesn't make you any less right or me any less wrong and vice versa .... it is very clear to me the game is trying to "go against the grain" that is expected in this kinda game and your complaints show that you are not enjoying or open to that - doesn't mean their decision to do so is wrong or ruining the game because others like myself would champion it (I completed Elden Ring before they fixed Malenia and solo'd her under level so that should tell you something of the kind of gaming masochist i am - mastered gaiden black and II without breaking a controller ... these are games that seek to kick you in the teeth much like HA)

So no I don't think I do look foolish for being more open minded ... I think you read Waylander and then scanned mine because you seem to think I think his ideas are bad - please quote exactly where i said that - I just refused to give him credit after such a disgustingly self praising opening ... his ego had more than enough feeding.

You just stated you share his opinion so that also suggests the way this game is trying to shake things up is not something you will enjoy so OF COURSE you are going to side with Waylander ... but just cause neither of you can see the wood for the trees doesn't mean that he is right ... if you took Dark Souls and tried to make it Assassins Creed you would RUIN not just the game but the very fabric of what defines it.

There are so many tycoon and management titles that play to egos, empower players and basically hold your hand that it speaks volumes to me the ONE that decides not to do it "sucks and could be better" if they make changes to be more like the rest ... he is a hobbyist designer and sights commercially accepted examples i wonder why? maybe its because he goes for SAFE and commercially viable - that list sure as hell reads like it was written by someone who works in binary it is so matter of fact common sense 101 that I am not surprised he opened up the way he did - the clients he reps are likely so far out their depth he will seem like a god but for those of us with actual experience PRACTICAL experience what i just read was safe and these guys are saying ♥♥♥♥ safe - MORE POWER TO THEM!

You could GOOGLE each of those queries and i guarantee you Gemini will respond almost identical - that is so clinical and sterile and completely overlooks WHAT the game is doing ... it really is like giving a written blueprint of how to change Dark Souls into AC and in doing so not only do you completely fail to "get" the game you don't improve it for the people that do.

There is no need to turn this into your usual run of the mill movie tycoon 3 of them released ahead of this and THIS is the one I have on my wishlist.

My issue is that for all the very good observations made the opening post is vile and the claim "i am a designer" while showcasing that you are not even understanding what this game is doing so much you want to CHANGE it in ways that go against what it is ... no I wont respect or get behind that - better to not proclaim yourself a designer and THEN make such a post cause then at least you have benefit of the doubt rather than puffing your chest out and making yourself look amateur.

More than happy to be the fool if you feel that's the way to go my friend.

2 people drop the game in a few hours and declare it is objectively unfun .... meanwhile on earth there are plenty other options for you I am very much hoping the Devs ignore this thread and stay the course.

We will see.

[Nursultan Talyakbay]

Obiwan, may I ask what you do for a living as you claim to be in the industry. Because I do not see how, for example, having ONLY negative events is not an objectively terrible game decision. How is having a small budget tiny film taking the same amount of time to make as a AAA blockbuster objectively not a terrible decision? How is having the same tiny little movie making the same profit as a giant successful blockbuster not a terrible decision? How is having only 1 category rating for actors not objectively narrow-minded? How is it literally being impossible to lose money on a film (even if it has woeful reviews) not objectively a terrible gaming design decision? I do not claim to work in the industry but I have been a gamer my entire life. I know what I likes and what I don't, and I feel I have a good sense of what is objectively bad and what isn't as well. I would love to hear you tell me how the issues that I have just listed (only some of those that waylander raised) are not objectively bad game design decisions.. ? I'll be waiting..

[Obiwan]

Don't bother replying Nursul - you assuming I am "one of the butt hurt devs" is so indicative of Waylanders attitude not only do I not care if you thinK I am foolish it carries no weight or merit whatsoever.

If that is the attitude you hold toward the devs why the hell should they cater to 2 people who think the game isn't fun when so many are counting the days to release.

You think I am the one with ego? I don't think the world revolves around me cupcake.