Bosses have a bit too much health

[Daddyflapjacks]

takes 15 mins just to kill these bastards

[Dregora]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The Ultimate Despair:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kashra Fall:

Bosses definitely don't have a lot of HP. When you're doing 40k+ in a string, and brutal moving for 27k and 23%, it certainly seems fine to me. Chipping them to that point will make them lose another 11% as well.

Oh.. wow. You again.
So, please explain to me how you're dealing 40k+ in a string in the third mission then.
I'm literally in the second region and i'm not even close to hitting 5k per hits.
I swear that people like you are 100% what's wrong with this genre of games.
None of what you said even makes sense, not everybody is trying to min/max stats and ♥♥♥♥, most people are just playing the damn game like normal human beings.

Most people should play a game the way it's intended to be played. You don't have to play optimal. Use skills, extend your combos, your skill tree for your weapon exists to serve that exact purpose.

That's what normal people do. Learn to work with what the game offers you.

[kindza]

Brother just get good and learn some combos for your weapon, dont just light attack spam

[The Ultimate Despair]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von 你¨妈¨死¨了:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The Ultimate Despair:

So, then your entire comment was pointless.
The boss right after Viper has an absurd amount of HP. Not everyone is looking up guide on how to cheese the game and trying to achieve Nioh 1 9 billion damage.
What a weird way to look at thing. yes in end game you're gonna have access to a ton of tools to maximize damage, have access to a TON of gear sets to mix and match and will have unlocked a ton of weapons and skills. Wow, what an amazing comment you made there.
The point this person is making, is that early game and quite frankly up until you can reliably make actual gear sets and edit their attributes, the game is a massive slog. Bosses have massive stamina bars and hp pools that really doesn't scale well with the small damage output we can have.
I swear that people need to scale down on the whole 'it's supposed to be hard hurr durr' and understand how progressive difficulty scaling function before commenting about these things.

When you play a Dark Soul game, the 3rd boss doesn't have 50k hp. That is not difficult, that is simply HP bloat and tedium. Borked hitboxes also are not 'difficult'. They are just badly coded. It's as simple as that.
The reason why Dark Souls, Sekiro and MOSTLY Elden Ring work so well, is because they mastered the art of progressive difficulty.
In Khazan you beat 2 bosses and then you got a two health bar monstrosity with absolute trash hit boxes and certain moves and who keeps jumping around everywhere. Yep. Totally balanced.
Can you beat it? Yep. I did. Like many other people. Did I have fun? Absolutely not.
And games are supposed to be FUN. That's the keyword.

It is totally balanced. You don't have to minmax to destroy Viper's healthbar. There's many things you could be doing wrong and we can't know what that is exactly, but I'd assume you're probably not using reflections and not optimizing your combos when they're exhausted.

Please state where I said that you needed to minmax. Lmao.
I was talking about their absurd comment talking about doing 40k in damage. I think reading would be a good first thing to do before replying to something someone has said.

Reflections, which is an optional skill, is an OPTION. There are absolutely other ways to play and build yourself in this game, otherwise it would be a central game mechanic and not an unlockable skill. The same way that in Nioh you can unlock actual parry skills, but you never need to do so as you have other ways to play.
I am doing just fine depleting boss stamina with not using reflection, thank you. It doesn't change my opinion whatsoever though.
Again, you comment on things, and you clearly do not understand basic game design, and it shows.
Unlockable optional skills don't constitute an 'intended way to play' as you are trying to claim. Not when the game clearly has other skill trees you can focus on to build yourself a different play style.

[电动天使]

The perfect solution to (some of) your problems is there, it's not tied to any weapon or build, yet you still say that it's not your "play style". Suit yourself, but don't claim the bosses are unbalanced and/or difficult to take down when you refuse to use the mechanics that would obliterate them with minimal effort. There's a reason that option isn't tied to anything.

[Zyrconia]

Lol, speaking of a boss who has at least 50% to 100% too much HP is Rangkus. Why even have gear and stats in the game if I'm not going to do any damage. When I hit him, just show me a big flashing 0, because that's how the damage feels.

I need to use every trick in the book for this fight to not fully stand still but progress at a glacial pace. Buffs, elemental weapon and stationary damaging zone. Each attempt using up my very finite resources. By the time I get good enough to have a real chance of beating him, I won't have any consumables left or materials to craft new ones.

Classic souls problem. Not to mention too good to use syndrome. But Nioh solved this years ago. That's why Nioh is the classic masterpiece and this is a just a damn good rip off, which misses the point on consumables.

And half way the fight he goes ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and can melt you HP in seconds. There is just too much going on.

His hits are staggered. Has a grab that is the hardest yet to a void, pretty much a fluke.

But when he goes for his whirlwind attack with fire, I know I'm dead. Spend three ages wailing on his non moving HP bar and the he kills you 80% of the time with his whirlwind attack.

I'll have to look up a way to counter that online, because 35 attempts later, that whirlwind with a 80% kill rate followed by a dive you need to brink block, might as well be an metaphorical one shot in my book. I survived his whirlwind + dive combo about 3 times.

As the devs missed the mark with consumables, so did they with stamina. Such a boss requires 100% aggression to plink away at his HP for 20 hours. That does not go well with such restrictive stamina. I'm not saying double it. That would be too low. Just remove it. Too late for that, the game is finished and shipped, but Sekiro did not need a stamina bar...

I'll look at 40 guides now and maybe farm up a new set or something...

[sgrey]

You think bosses have too much health, but you have never fought the stupid tiger wolf.

[McIntyre]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von sgrey:

You think bosses have too much health, but you have never fought the stupid tiger wolf.

The one in the mine/prison? Fook that one. It took me 9-10 business days to get that thing. It's just brink guard over and over and over again, slowly chipping away its health.

[sgrey]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von McIntyre:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von sgrey:

You think bosses have too much health, but you have never fought the stupid tiger wolf.

The one in the mine/prison? Fook that one. It took me 9-10 business days to get that thing. It's just brink guard over and over and over again, slowly chipping away its health.

Yes, that one. I killed him very quickly, overall an easy boss, but that stupid amount of health is really insane. Simply takes forever to kill it.

[finn]

I agree. Not finished the game yet, but probably about 80% done, with all optional bosses (those recycled harder versions) and, yeah, all the bosses have about 30% too much HP and feel really spongy. None of them are super hard, but you spend so long doing the same thing over and over because the game is just a dance.

Not coping. Beat Sekiro, Lies of P, Elden Ring.

[电动天使]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von sgrey:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von McIntyre:

The one in the mine/prison? Fook that one. It took me 9-10 business days to get that thing. It's just brink guard over and over and over again, slowly chipping away its health.

Yes, that one. I killed him very quickly, overall an easy boss, but that stupid amount of health is really insane. Simply takes forever to kill it.

Use fire, he dies very quickly. He practically kills himself by constantly doing attacks that leave him wide open.

[Zyrconia]

Yo, got new data on boss HP.

I was stuck on Rangkus, 35 attempts, due to me having incredibly low damage/him having a ginormous health bar, even though for other bosses was fine, they feeling like they had +20%-50% too much HP. You know, manageable. Plus his phase two shenanigans were a almost guaranteed death.

I beat him now, in 7 more attempts. most oft hem were not genuine attempts, because I changed my build and had to adapt to it. I'm a muscle memory player, so if I must focus on buttons for new combos, my performance and ability to dodge goes to ♥♥♥♥, so first 3 I died in phase 1. And after than, 3 deaths were to his phase 3 fire, which even after looking at guides, i can't counter, only on fluke.

You read that right: I had to change my build. Just the skills, same gear. How did the new build go? It was melting the boss. I don't have footage, since I don't record my losses, like yesterday, but I was doing what felt like at least 4x damage. Maybe 6x. Same gear.

So I kinda hate that. You are running around with good build you like, fells almost OP (or maybe the excellent combat makes it feel op) and boom, you hit a brick wall. In this case, almost literally, since my old build was not moving his HP. You change the build and you melt.

This does not feel balanced.

And might explain why some people spend 10 minutes on a fight and some melt. Now I need to test this build on other bosses and on level traversal too.

[电动天使]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zyrconia:

Yo, got new data on boss HP.

I was stuck on Rangkus, 35 attempts, due to me having incredibly low damage/him having a ginormous health bar, even though for other bosses was fine, they feeling like they had +20%-50% too much HP. You know, manageable. Plus his phase two shenanigans were a almost guaranteed death.

I beat him now, in 7 more attempts. most oft hem were not genuine attempts, because I changed my build and had to adapt to it. I'm a muscle memory player, so if I must focus on buttons for new combos, my performance and ability to dodge goes to ♥♥♥♥, so first 3 I died in phase 1. And after than, 3 deaths were to his phase 3 fire, which even after looking at guides, i can't counter, only on fluke.

You read that right: I had to change my build. Just the skills, same gear. How did the new build go? It was melting the boss. I don't have footage, since I don't record my losses, like yesterday, but I was doing what felt like at least 4x damage. Maybe 6x. Same gear.

So I kinda hate that. You are running around with good build you like, fells almost OP (or maybe the excellent combat makes it feel op) and boom, you hit a brick wall. In this case, almost literally, since my old build was not moving his HP. You change the build and you melt.

This does not feel balanced.

And might explain why some people spend 10 minutes on a fight and some melt. Now I need to test this build on other bosses and on level traversal too.

Some attacks are better vs different things. Nothing wrong with that. I sometimes changed my Dual Wield skill tree just to get the heavy attack stacks. Sometimes I refunded skills and put points into javelin to kill wide open enemies from far away (linon mine). Having options is part of what makes this game interesting.

[Baron01]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zyrconia:

...

You read that right: I had to change my build. Just the skills, same gear. How did the new build go? It was melting the boss. I don't have footage, since I don't record my losses, like yesterday, but I was doing what felt like at least 4x damage. Maybe 6x. Same gear.

So I kinda hate that. You are running around with good build you like, fells almost OP (or maybe the excellent combat makes it feel op) and boom, you hit a brick wall...

There are bosses that you might want to change your build a bit or add a skill. I did it on my dual-wielding character as one boss simply required me to attack her from behind, a task made easy by including Zephyr skill in your build. I did not have it but never stopped using it after that fight.

Also, on the bold part, your build was not really a good or OP was it? Otherwise, you would not run into a brick wall and had to change to a better one. Just pointing out that logically inconsistency in your story. :P

[Zyrconia]

No, it is not OK to suddenly do 4x the damage and trivialize the game. That is not what I call balanced.

We'll see how it hold up for future bosses... Went back to the ghost goat side mission and melted that boss, one I couldn't before. But let's see it on new bosses.

[Zyrconia]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Baron01:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zyrconia:

...

You read that right: I had to change my build. Just the skills, same gear. How did the new build go? It was melting the boss. I don't have footage, since I don't record my losses, like yesterday, but I was doing what felt like at least 4x damage. Maybe 6x. Same gear.

So I kinda hate that. You are running around with good build you like, fells almost OP (or maybe the excellent combat makes it feel op) and boom, you hit a brick wall...

There are bosses that you might want to change your build a bit or add a skill. I did it on my dual-wielding character as one boss simply required me to attack her from behind, a task made easy by including Zephyr skill in your build. I did not have it but never stopped using it after that fight.

Also, on the bold part, your build was not really a bood or OP was it? Otherwise, you would not run into a brick wall and had to change to a better one. Just pointing out that logically inconsistency in your story. :P

There is zero logical inconsistency.

I said FEELS OP. Obviously, I did not finish the game, did not fight all the bosses, did not try all the weapons, builds, so I don't have the full data. Based on partial data, it FELT OP. Once I try all the builds against all the bosses, we can discuss what pump out mathematically the highest DPS, but we won't ignore safety. This new build is pretty decent on safety.

And not just felt OP for no good reason, I had several very good reason to feel that. It was melting levels. It did not too bad on bosses.

And finally, but probably the most important factor, I based it on a build that was labelled as OP, in order to overcome other prior challenges and it was a massive step up. So compared to what I had, it was OP. Half of it was me realizing this is not DS and you need to be full aggression all the time to have any chance of finishing a fight in good time, but half was the great power increase from the new build.

There is one more build that I must test, again labeled as OP: the bring block fire damage and trying to double proc fire on foes.