Can we admit the level design is 0/10 terrible?

[Doctor Gitgud]

Might be the worst I've ever seen in a souls game. Complex, intricate areas with multiple paths and lots of secrets are out. Simplistic, uninspired corridors are in. The environment poses no threat whatsoever.

A perfect early example is Sen's Fortress vs. Forgotten Temple. The Temple is basically a direct knockoff in fact -- another fortress full of lizard people and traps. Except unlike the ingenious design of Sen's Fortress, the "traps" in Forgotten Temple consist of an easily visible arrow-firing pressure plate in the middle of a large room in front of a chest, that only a complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥ would step on. And there are a couple of clearly broken floors that will drop you onto spikes. There is only one way through the level. Zero exploration. Complete amateur hour, like a student project.

Sen's Fortress on the other hand, was like an onion where you just keep peeling back the layers and discovering more and more. And as you climb, it only gets more intense, with traps like swinging blades as you walk on narrow catwalks. There is no comparison whatsoever.

I am getting far into the game, and while several of the bosses have been fun, I have not seen a single "good" level yet. And this doesn't even touch on the visual aspect, which is also mediocre and uninspired.

[Pigsnortcore DSP style]

yeah it's a turd

[Pigsnortcore DSP style]

Originally posted by Mikoto:

Hard disagree. The level design in this game is amazing and the art direction is so on point I cant stop playing it because I want to see more.

you're coping or just dumb

[Anime]

Originally posted by Doctor Gitgud:

Can we admit the level design is 0/10 terrible?

what level design?

[AILAD]

Yep, level design prevents it from being a great game.

Also, I hate the fact that so many maps are completely monotone in color. They feel so bland.

[badger vortex]

i don't know what game you guys are playing but the level design is peak to me. you're subtly directed by the architecture to various points of interest and there's just the right amount of save points spread out - quite often i will be on my last health pot or 1 left and round the corner there is the next save

there's very little wasted space either, everything is tightly weaved together and regularly gives options to open shortcuts back

sounds like you have only been playing on act 1 or something, because they really ramp up the complexity and size of levels further in

[ZexxCrine]

Originally posted by Nemo:

Originally posted by Retsubty:

That's not really bad game design lol. You can see the hole and should avoid it. Gaming 101.

While fighting 3-4 mobs but push you when blocking and can't evade cause you'll fall into one? It's bad design. What are the random holes even doing on a map? You think I'm just walking into holes? Wtf 😂

I just wanna correct this.

you can't evade off a ledge. its physically impossible. no reason not to evade. you can only run or walk off ledges in khazan

[blackdragon]

Yes, my dog regularly pushes things out of his butt that are more beautiful, more cohesive, and more thoughtful than most of these levels. He is a far more accomplished creative than most of the people who worked on this game.

And for the love of God, can we please stop with the spider caves. Between Nioh, Nioh 2, Wo Long Fallen Dynasty, Black Myth Wukong, and now this game...I'm so sick of spider caves. Design a level people actually want to exist in, dark fantasy can be very beautiful and all these numskulls can think of is some crusty ass cave system.

This game has some good ideas when it comes to combat, but everything else is either unoriginal or designed to be try hard C&B torture. It really feels like the developers took a page out of old Druckman's book and tried to avoid using the word "fun" when designing their game. You want vibrant colors? Who do you think we are, the Easter Bunny? You want to have fun boss fights that aren't way too overly tuned? Too bad, time to do your home work and bang your head against a wall for hours. Learn everything about this boss, his 15 different 10 hit combos, his mother's maiden name, his cup size, and only then will you be allowed to continue....to the next even more difficult boss fight. I will still finish this game, with no summons of course, because I belong in a psych ward...

[电动天使]

Originally posted by sgrey:

There is also that retarded spider-tank, who will show up randomly in some locations after the cave...

The spider that kills himself by spamming brink guardable moves? Which enemy is this about?

[mono]

It's a perfect example of a dev team trying really hard to copy souls games and thinking "muh difficulty" is the only part that makes them enjoyable and memorable.

Stage design and boss tuning is toilet water tier.

[电动天使]

Originally posted by mono:

It's a perfect example of a dev team trying really hard to copy souls games and thinking "muh difficulty" is the only part that makes them enjoyable and memorable.

Stage design and boss tuning is toilet water tier.

The game is on the easier side.

[blackdragon]

Originally posted by 你¨妈¨死¨了:

Originally posted by mono:

It's a perfect example of a dev team trying really hard to copy souls games and thinking "muh difficulty" is the only part that makes them enjoyable and memorable.

Stage design and boss tuning is toilet water tier.

The game is on the easier side.

Compared to what exactly? Maybe it's a difference of opinion, taste, or even build, but this game is giving me some trouble and I'm not afraid to admit that. Sekiro to me is easy because I love that game so much I learned it inside and out, but I also think it's just straight up more fair to the player than Khazan is. Nioh 1 & 2, Wo Long, Lords of the Fallen, Wukong, Lies of P, Stellar Blade, every FromSoftware game in the past 16 years, I've beaten every single boss in every one of those games including all their DLCs and nothing compares to Khazan. And that's not declaration that Khazan is better, outside of a few things it's actually inferior to all those other games, but it certainly is harder. Making a game hard is something anyone can do. But a talented developer knows how to make you love getting your ass kicked.

[电动天使]

Originally posted by blackdragon:

Originally posted by 你¨妈¨死¨了:

The game is on the easier side.

Compared to what exactly? Maybe it's a difference of opinion, taste, or even build, but this game is giving me some trouble and I'm not afraid to admit that. Sekiro to me is easy because I love that game so much I learned it inside and out, but I also think it's just straight up more fair to the player than Khazan is. Nioh 1 & 2, Wo Long, Lords of the Fallen, Wukong, Lies of P, Stellar Blade, every FromSoftware game in the past 16 years, I've beaten every single boss in every one of those games including all their DLCs and nothing compares to Khazan. And that's not declaration that Khazan is better, outside of a few things it's actually inferior to all those other games, but it certainly is harder. Making a game hard is something anyone can do. But a talented developer knows how to make you love getting your ass kicked.

This game is as fair as other soulslikes. There's ways to deal with everything. I'd recommend learning to use deflection since that gives you an opening and also takes off a large amount of the enemy's stamina bar. It straight up lets you kill most common enemies too.

[Hail]

Design wise missions is just linear corridor and yes usual enemyes and elites pose no threat at all. In the end TFBK is boss rush fodder enemyes exists only to give you free lvl up and gear resources. Positive of such design is if you want to farm certain boss you able to teleport from crevice directly to boss rest point.

[Thaeldis]

I prefer it that way, closer to Bloodborne and DS3. My tolerance for exploration is limited (can't stand open worlds for example) so I think it's great for my taste.

[Eck]

The layouts are okay. There's just nothing really interesting about them. If there was a standout feature or mechanic about some of them it'd be better.