Even Kena: Bridge of Spirits is faster paced

[D. Flame]

At least increase the base stamina regen speed, and/or make skills not use stamina (also let stamina be regenning while skills are being used).

[Giganx]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tenshu:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Giganx:

You're running out of stamina because you play poorly. You beat the boss anyways because it was a tutorial boss on baby difficulty.

No one is saying you're struggling to beat the boss. What we're saying is that if you're having stamina issues it means you're bad at perfect dodging/parrying. Practice and get better.

Bro...

"All grabs have an obvious tell and a long start up animation, so even at zero stamina, you have enough time to recharge enough stamina to dodge the grabs."
.... what are you doing? What is your argument?

Guy made a thread claiming the game is too slow paced because "not enough stamina."

The response to that is you have plenty of stamina to do whatever you want if you're perfect dodging/parrying everything. So, the solution to this guys problem is to learn how to perfect dodge/parry.

Apparently he beat the tutorial boss without being very good at this games most important mechanics, which is fine. If he wants an endless stream of stamina he'll have to get better at the game, though.

[Tenshu]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Giganx:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tenshu:

Bro...

"All grabs have an obvious tell and a long start up animation, so even at zero stamina, you have enough time to recharge enough stamina to dodge the grabs."
.... what are you doing? What is your argument?

Guy made a thread claiming the game is too slow paced because "not enough stamina."

The response to that is you have plenty of stamina to do whatever you want if you're perfect dodging/parrying everything. So, the solution to this guys problem is to learn how to perfect dodge/parry.

Apparently he beat the tutorial boss without being very good at this games most important mechanics, which is fine. If he wants an endless stream of stamina he'll have to get better at the game, though.

I get that, but your method of attacking his point is really... weird. You're assuming scenarios that he confirms aren't true but still trying to pin them against him and so he's bad. I'm not even entirely sure that's even a strawman.
Him: you always have enough stamina to attempt parries
You: you can't parry grabs though
Him: that's not a problem because during the tell you regen enough stamina to dodge
You: You're bad bro, manage stamina better

Wat?

Edit: He's waxing the "all-in" principle, but that's mostly used in MOBAs the way he's describing it, not fighting games. In fighting games you go all-in when you know it's going to kill and it's the winning round, as you never want to be neutral on resources against an opponent even if you have the life lead, definitely don't want to leave them with more meter than you for the next round either. (Case by case but this is general. Like in Guilty Gear it's fine because your meters reset each round anyway)

[Giganx]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tenshu:

I get that, but your method of attacking his point is really... weird. You're assuming scenarios that he confirms aren't true but still trying to pin it against him that he's bad. I'm not even entirely sure that's even a strawman.
Him: you always have enough stamina to attempt parries
You: you can't parry grabs though
Him: that's not a problem because during the tell you regen enough stamina to dodge
You: You're bad bro, manage stamina better

Wat?

I'm not sure what you're talking about. If he's struggling with stamina then he's bad at perfect dodging/parrying. That's not an attack on him, it's a logistic fact.

That part of the conversation you're referring to was just him saying that being out of stamina doesn't "punish" you, which was just a dumb semantics argument he was trying to make because I used the word punish. Apparently the only possible definition of the word punish is the fighting game definition. That was irrelevant, though.

Fact still remains that he thinks the game is slow paced because he's frequently out of stamina, and if he's frequently out of stamina then he's not good at the game.

[Tenshu]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Giganx:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tenshu:

I get that, but your method of attacking his point is really... weird. You're assuming scenarios that he confirms aren't true but still trying to pin it against him that he's bad. I'm not even entirely sure that's even a strawman.
Him: you always have enough stamina to attempt parries
You: you can't parry grabs though
Him: that's not a problem because during the tell you regen enough stamina to dodge
You: You're bad bro, manage stamina better

Wat?

I'm not sure what you're talking about. If he's struggling with stamina then he's bad at perfect dodging/parrying. That's not an attack on him, it's a logistic fact.

That part of the conversation you're referring to was just him saying that being out of stamina doesn't "punish" you, which was just a dumb semantics argument he was trying to make because I used the word punish. That was irrelevant, though.

Fact still remains that he thinks the game is slow paced because he's frequently out of stamina, and if he's frequently out of stamina then he's not good at the game.

From the picture he's painting, that's not the issue and he's making it very clear that's not the issue, yet you're stubborn in saying it is, read exactly what he typed. I edited my post but he's waxing the "all-in" principle, albeit flawed a bit attaching it to fighting games.

He is kinda right though, being "out" of stamina doesn't punish you, notice he didn't say burnout, meaning when Khazan is stunned and forced to take a hit if his bar doesn't regen enough. Going by what he's saying, he's not going into burnout, he has the stamina to parry and as he mentioned, being critically low on stamina during a grab attempt isn't a problem... because you'll regen the stamina in order to dodge. What he wants is to basically be able to Guilty Gear this ♥♥♥♥ lol.

[Giganx]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tenshu:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Giganx:

I'm not sure what you're talking about. If he's struggling with stamina then he's bad at perfect dodging/parrying. That's not an attack on him, it's a logistic fact.

That part of the conversation you're referring to was just him saying that being out of stamina doesn't "punish" you, which was just a dumb semantics argument he was trying to make because I used the word punish. That was irrelevant, though.

Fact still remains that he thinks the game is slow paced because he's frequently out of stamina, and if he's frequently out of stamina then he's not good at the game.

From the picture he's painting, that's not the issue and he's making it very clear that's not the issue, yet you're stubborn in saying it is, read exactly what he typed. I edited my post but he's waxing the "all-in" principle, albeit flawed a bit attaching it to fighting games.

He is kinda right though, being "out" of stamina doesn't punish you, notice he didn't say burnout, meaning when Khazan is stunned and forced to take a hit if his bar doesn't regen enough. Going by what he's saying, he's not going into burnout, he has the stamina to parry and as he mentioned, being critically low on stamina during a grab attempt isn't a problem... because you'll regen the stamina in order to dodge. What he wants is to basically be able to Guilty Gear this ♥♥♥♥ lol.

His issue is very clearly stated in the Original Post, that he's struggling with stamina; and he hasn't said anything in response to backpeddle on that.

In a fighting game being punished is taking damage because a full commitment attack that missed left you vulnerable. In general the word punishment can mean any negative consequence; simply not being able to attack is a punishment for being out of stamina. This was just a dumb, irrelevant semantic argument he was trying to make in order to deflect. It has nothing to do with the actual discussion.

His point is that the game is slow paced, and that stamina is the reason. Stamina is only an issue if you're bad at the game, though.

[D. Flame]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tenshu:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Giganx:

I'm not sure what you're talking about. If he's struggling with stamina then he's bad at perfect dodging/parrying. That's not an attack on him, it's a logistic fact.

That part of the conversation you're referring to was just him saying that being out of stamina doesn't "punish" you, which was just a dumb semantics argument he was trying to make because I used the word punish. That was irrelevant, though.

Fact still remains that he thinks the game is slow paced because he's frequently out of stamina, and if he's frequently out of stamina then he's not good at the game.

From the picture he's painting, that's not the issue and he's making it very clear that's not the issue, yet you're stubborn in saying it is, read exactly what he typed. I edited my post but he's waxing the "all-in" principle, albeit flawed a bit attaching it to fighting games.

He is kinda right though, being "out" of stamina doesn't punish you, notice he didn't say burnout, meaning when Khazan is stunned and forced to take a hit if his bar doesn't regen enough. Going by what he's saying, he's not going into burnout, he has the stamina to parry and as he mentioned, being critically low on stamina during a grab attempt isn't a problem... because you'll regen the stamina in order to dodge. What he wants is to basically be able to Guilty Gear this ♥♥♥♥ lol.

This person gets it.

[SniggyDiggy]

i swear i've seen this exact interaction happen before.
-D. Flame makes a opinionated post
-someone comes to counter argue it
-argument becomes enflamed and devolves
-Tenshu comes to defend D. Flame

I wish i had a friend like Tenshu

[Tenshu]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SniggyDiggy:

i swear i've seen this exact interaction happen before.
-D. Flame makes a opinionated post
-someone comes to counter argue it
-argument becomes enflamed and devolves
-Tenshu comes to defend D. Flame

I wish i had a friend like Tenshu

Like I said, he comes off opinionated and can have ♥♥♥♥ takes, but the method of attack to his point is... weird, it's like nobody read it or watched his video fighting not-Skull Knight. He clearly said what he wants out of the game, chalk it up to "muh Berserker" whatever. Cool. Target THAT. Why are you making up scenarios he's saying do not apply to him?
He seems like he wants to be able to attack, attack, attack and not have to stop and dance with the boss parrying in order to do it again. OK, tell him how THAT is flawed and your method is better. Or if you think he's being disingenuous by claiming he has no problems managing stamina with perfect parries and dodges, call him a liar and press him for evidence. It's that simple.

[Giganx]

His thread is asking the devs to increase stamina regen and make abilities not cost stamina. He'll still have to press the dodge or parry button whenever the enemy attacks. The suggestions he made would only be helpful for someone who's struggling with stamina management.

Do you honestly think he thought this was going to be the first ever soulslike where you never have to block or dodge an enemies attacks?

If he's not actually struggling with stamina management then this is just a straight up troll thread.

[SniggyDiggy]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tenshu:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SniggyDiggy:

i swear i've seen this exact interaction happen before.
-D. Flame makes a opinionated post
-someone comes to counter argue it
-argument becomes enflamed and devolves
-Tenshu comes to defend D. Flame

I wish i had a friend like Tenshu

Like I said, he comes off opinionated and can have ♥♥♥♥ takes, but the method of attack to his point is... weird, it'slike nobody read it. He clearly said what he wants out of the game, chalk it up to "muh Berserker" whatever. Cool. Target THAT. Why are you making up scenarios he's saying do not apply to him?
He seems like he wants to be able to attack, attack, attack and not have to stop and dance with the boss parrying in order to do it again. OK, tell him how THAT is flawed and your method is better. Or if you think he's being disingenuous by claiming he has no problems managing stamina with perfect parries and dodges, call him a liar and press him for evidence. It's that simple.

See that's the thing though, it doesnt come off as "muh Berserker" we have seen those people here before, it can come off as "this game isnt like other games, therefore it's bad" whether he's saying it's a "parry spam" and "parry to win" or his opinions on stamina, the way he conveys it is as if it's fact leads to people trying to correct him.

I do agree however that the way some people engage with him is counter productive and blatantly rude full stop, but it doesn't help that as far as I've seen, he comes off as close minded and bad faith frequently.

[D. Flame]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SniggyDiggy:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tenshu:

Like I said, he comes off opinionated and can have ♥♥♥♥ takes, but the method of attack to his point is... weird, it'slike nobody read it. He clearly said what he wants out of the game, chalk it up to "muh Berserker" whatever. Cool. Target THAT. Why are you making up scenarios he's saying do not apply to him?
He seems like he wants to be able to attack, attack, attack and not have to stop and dance with the boss parrying in order to do it again. OK, tell him how THAT is flawed and your method is better. Or if you think he's being disingenuous by claiming he has no problems managing stamina with perfect parries and dodges, call him a liar and press him for evidence. It's that simple.

See that's the thing though, it doesnt come off as "muh Berserker" we have seen those people here before, it can come off as "this game isnt like other games, therefore it's bad" whether he's saying it's a "parry spam" and "parry to win" or his opinions on stamina, the way he conveys it is as if it's fact leads to people trying to correct him.

I do agree however that the way some people engage with him is counter productive and blatantly rude full stop, but it doesn't help that as far as I've seen, he comes off as close minded and bad faith frequently.

Nah, this is how a DFO berserker should play:
https://youtu.be/1RG8Y254L5Q?si=VUsKERhWPI7VwNvL&t=75

[SniggyDiggy]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von D. Flame:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SniggyDiggy:

See that's the thing though, it doesnt come off as "muh Berserker" we have seen those people here before, it can come off as "this game isnt like other games, therefore it's bad" whether he's saying it's a "parry spam" and "parry to win" or his opinions on stamina, the way he conveys it is as if it's fact leads to people trying to correct him.

I do agree however that the way some people engage with him is counter productive and blatantly rude full stop, but it doesn't help that as far as I've seen, he comes off as close minded and bad faith frequently.

Nah, this is how a DFO berserker should play:
https://youtu.be/1RG8Y254L5Q?si=VUsKERhWPI7VwNvL&t=75

To my understanding, it's been stated that the demo represents only 5% of the entire game, and that the combat will pick up pace very quickly as the game progresses. with that in mind i do not think it's outlandish to believe we will have combat similar to the trailer you have linked (besides the vast movement speed difference)
Especially so since quite a few of the attacks in the trailer are semi present in the game already

[Tenshu]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Giganx:

His thread is asking the devs to increase stamina regen and make abilities not cost stamina. He'll still have to press the dodge or parry button whenever the enemy attacks. The suggestions he made would only be helpful for someone who's struggling with stamina management.

Do you honestly think he thought this was going to be the first ever soulslike where you never have to block or dodge an enemies attacks?

If he's not actually struggling with stamina management then this is just a straight up troll thread.

Uh-huh?
V

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tenshu:

Or if you think he's being disingenuous by claiming he has no problems managing stamina with perfect parries and dodges, call him a liar and press him for evidence. It's that simple.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SniggyDiggy:

I do agree however that the way some people engage with him is counter productive and blatantly rude full stop, but it doesn't help that as far as I've seen, he comes off as close minded and bad faith frequently.

No, not rude. Stupid, yes. People shouldn't think exposing someone being dishonest involves being dishonest themselves.

[Tenshu]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SniggyDiggy:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von D. Flame:

Nah, this is how a DFO berserker should play:
https://youtu.be/1RG8Y254L5Q?si=VUsKERhWPI7VwNvL&t=75

To my understanding, it's been stated that the demo represents only 5% of the entire game, and that the combat will pick up pace very quickly as the game progresses. with that in mind i do not think it's outlandish to believe we will have combat similar to the trailer you have linked (besides the vast movement speed difference)
Especially so since quite a few of the attacks in the trailer are semi present in the game already

Tbh, I don't like this approach, especially since... it's Nexon and unless I missed something over the years, idk why anyone would take anything Nexon or Neople says at face value, if that's the source.

But I'm also old-schoolish. A demo is a chance to show off the cool ♥♥♥♥ you can do, even if a taste of how even midgame feels. You remember the old FF7 demo for example? You started off in the first area but with a full squad and kitted out with various Materia you wouldn't see until later in the full game. Because they wanted you to try all this cool ♥♥♥♥ and what you would expect in the full game, not tell you later "oh don't worry, the new Materia system is gonna be a lot better when you buy the game"

[SniggyDiggy]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tenshu:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Giganx:

His thread is asking the devs to increase stamina regen and make abilities not cost stamina. He'll still have to press the dodge or parry button whenever the enemy attacks. The suggestions he made would only be helpful for someone who's struggling with stamina management.

Do you honestly think he thought this was going to be the first ever soulslike where you never have to block or dodge an enemies attacks?

If he's not actually struggling with stamina management then this is just a straight up troll thread.

Uh-huh?
V

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tenshu:

Or if you think he's being disingenuous by claiming he has no problems managing stamina with perfect parries and dodges, call him a liar and press him for evidence. It's that simple.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SniggyDiggy:

I do agree however that the way some people engage with him is counter productive and blatantly rude full stop, but it doesn't help that as far as I've seen, he comes off as close minded and bad faith frequently.

No, not rude. Stupid, yes. People shouldn't think exposing someone being dishonest involves being dishonest themselves.

i think someone attacking someones character and not their argument constitutes rude no? (the guy who made fun of D. Flame for their they/them bio and getting banned springs to mind)