denuvo? in 2025? seriously?

[scragglie]

are we still doing this? oh wait its nexon nevermind. it all makes sense now. the worst gaming publication on earth

[Valfossa]

Originally posted by Anime:

Originally posted by parent child bowl:

None of those are true in a way that matters.

this

No this.
https://youtu.be/voLCxkm2puk

[Pheace]

Originally posted by Chrisader:

Uh huh, none of that matters. Are you going to tell how it doesn't matter, or are you just throwing a bad opinion out there?

I mean, the hard drive degradation thing was discredited long ago. Denuvo writes a tiny token and after that only reads the token periodically to check it still matches. Sure, *any* writing activity, no matter how insignificant, degrades your HDD/SSD. But Is it worth mentioning? Downloading 1 COD game probably does more writing than Denuvo will in your lifetime. And yes, that's including the bloated exe size.

Also, a 100+MB is hardly a lot these days.

[Valfossa]

Originally posted by Pheace:

Originally posted by Chrisader:

Uh huh, none of that matters. Are you going to tell how it doesn't matter, or are you just throwing a bad opinion out there?

I mean, the hard drive degradation thing was discredited long ago. Denuvo writes a tiny token and after that only reads the token periodically to check it still matches. Sure, *any* writing activity, no matter how insignificant, degrades your HDD/SSD. But Is it worth mentioning? Downloading 1 COD game probably does more writing than Denuvo will in your lifetime. And yes, that's including the bloated exe size.

Also, a 100+MB is hardly a lot these days.

Considering it causes hard drive fragmentation, because I've tested it myself. So is it really that far fetched that it can cause problems to people's hard drives?

Also I don't care how little it is, even though I don't believe it takes such little space as if you look at what it actually does, there is absolutely no way it is taking up 100+MB.
https://connorjaydunn.github.io/blog/posts/denuvo-analysis/

[Pheace]

Originally posted by Chrisader:

Also I don't care how little it is, even though I don't believe it takes such little space as if you look at what it actually does, there is absolutely no way it is taking up 100+MB.
https://connorjaydunn.github.io/blog/posts/denuvo-analysis/

From what I remember it's usually around 100MB to 200MB on top of the original EXE. How big are you expecting it to be? Most of what it does is at runtime, CPU + Memory. Volatile memory, not your SSD/HDD.

[Valfossa]

Originally posted by Pheace:

Originally posted by Chrisader:

Also I don't care how little it is, even though I don't believe it takes such little space as if you look at what it actually does, there is absolutely no way it is taking up 100+MB.
https://connorjaydunn.github.io/blog/posts/denuvo-analysis/

From what I remember it's usually around 100MB to 200MB on top of the original EXE. How big are you expecting it to be? Most of what it does is at runtime, CPU + Memory. Volatile memory, not your SSD/HDD.

It can depend on the game, and considering how bloated games are getting, and as Denuvo adds more "protections". is it again far fetch to expect to only grow as the years go by?

And as I've said, the biggest concern isn't even the hard drive space, performance, or hard drive fragmentation. It's the fact that if Denuvo goes under and developers don't patch it out, then that game you bought can't be played anymore.

It has happened with other anti piracy DRM's. And has it actually stopped piracy? Or did just stop people from playing certain games they bought with their money?

[Valfossa]

Not to also mention, you need to have online to check your single player games. And if you use Linux, the five computer activation limit every 24 hours can be triggered by simply switching Proton versions five times.

Small things, but very annoying.

[Pheace]

Originally posted by Chrisader:

It can depend on the game, and considering how bloated games are getting, and as Denuvo adds more "protections". is it again far fetch to expect to only grow as the years go by?

Maybe proportionately? But so do our storage sizes.

And as I've said, the biggest concern isn't even the hard drive space, performance, or hard drive fragmentation. It's the fact that if Denuvo goes under and developers don't patch it out, then that game you bought can't be played anymore.

Didn't argue this one as it is a fair concern, though overblown imo. I've been gaming since the C64 days and while you can point to a few rare cases probably most people will never run into it, or more likely, even care by that point. There's also the trend of Denuvo getting removed somewhere down the line anyway (not in the least because of the sub cost most likely). Sega seems to be on a legacy deal but I doubt any new parties will be on a similar plan.

Imo, ideally for any game DRM would get removed ~1 year after active development, like a final act before it goes to maintenance.

Originally posted by Chrisader:

Not to also mention, you need to have online to check your single player games. And if you use Linux, the five computer activation limit every 24 hours can be triggered by simply switching Proton versions five times.

They've acknowledged this one and are trying to solve it, though so far without luck I imagine (was somewhere end of last year they mentioned it). Annoying for sure, though avoidable if you're aware it can happen. Still, shouldn't be happening.

[min3r95]

Originally posted by Pheace:

They've acknowledged this one and are trying to solve it, though so far without luck I imagine (was somewhere end of last year they mentioned it). Annoying for sure, though avoidable if you're aware it can happen. Still, shouldn't be happening.

Remove the forced online authorization feature and the problem is solved, online check for single player games shouldn't be a thing from the very beginning, something they should have acknowledged.

[Valfossa]

Originally posted by Pheace:

Originally posted by Chrisader:

It can depend on the game, and considering how bloated games are getting, and as Denuvo adds more "protections". is it again far fetch to expect to only grow as the years go by?

Maybe proportionately? But so do our storage sizes.

And as I've said, the biggest concern isn't even the hard drive space, performance, or hard drive fragmentation. It's the fact that if Denuvo goes under and developers don't patch it out, then that game you bought can't be played anymore.

Didn't argue this one as it is a fair concern, though overblown imo. I've been gaming since the C64 days and while you can point to a few rare cases probably most people will never run into it, or more likely, even care by that point. There's also the trend of Denuvo getting removed somewhere down the line anyway (not in the least because of the sub cost most likely). Sega seems to be on a legacy deal but I doubt any new parties will be on a similar plan.

Imo, ideally for any game DRM would get removed ~1 year after active development, like a final act before it goes to maintenance.

Originally posted by Chrisader:

Not to also mention, you need to have online to check your single player games. And if you use Linux, the five computer activation limit every 24 hours can be triggered by simply switching Proton versions five times.

They've acknowledged this one and are trying to solve it, though so far without luck I imagine (was somewhere end of last year they mentioned it). Annoying for sure, though avoidable if you're aware it can happen. Still, shouldn't be happening.

So basically you agree, so why even bring it up at this point? These things are only happening because they assume we are going to pirate their games.

And I'm sorry, but nothing is overblown when basically your purchase can become nothing simply because a company that most people don't like can just go out of business one day.

Again, this has happened before.

[Anime]

Y'all really be advocating for piracy get real

[min3r95]

Originally posted by Chrisader:

So basically you agree, so why even bring it up at this point? These things are only happening because they assume we are going to pirate their games.

And I'm sorry, but nothing is overblown when basically your purchase can become nothing simply because a company that most people don't like can just go out of business one day.

Again, this has happened before.

Some will try to argue that it's a nothing burger since there's not a single game rendered unplayable by Denuvo, without taking this into account: when that happens not 1 but hundreds of games will be affected.

But if you think that would be too far off to worry about, then there is still the online check.
It’s not about having the means to unlock it, it’s about why you have to ask at all when it’s already yours, why does someone else still get to decide if you can use it?

[Pheace]

Originally posted by Chrisader:

So basically you agree, so why even bring it up at this point?

You seem to be confused. What I responded to was the following:

Originally posted by Chrisader:

-It makes games run worse
-It takes up a lot of hard drive space
-It causes hard drive degradation

I'm arguing the bad points you brought up. That doesn't mean there aren't valid points to be discussed surrounding DRM, nor that I disagree with those.

Originally posted by Chrisader:

And I'm sorry, but nothing is overblown when basically your purchase can become nothing simply because a company that most people don't like can just go out of business one day.

Again, this has happened before.

If Denuvo disappears it takes one upload of the uncracked exe for any dev to fix it. The risk doesn't happen till both developer and Denuvo disappear.

Originally posted by Chrisader:

These things are only happening because they assume we are going to pirate their games.

They're happening because they know people pirate games. There's no assumption needed there, it happens.

[Valfossa]

Originally posted by Pheace:

Originally posted by Chrisader:

So basically you agree, so why even bring it up at this point?

You seem to be confused. What I responded to was the following:

Originally posted by Chrisader:

-It makes games run worse
-It takes up a lot of hard drive space
-It causes hard drive degradation

I'm arguing the bad points you brought up. That doesn't mean there aren't valid points to be discussed surrounding DRM, nor that I disagree with those.

Are they bad points if they are true? Maybe the space being a lot is the only one you have there. And even then, we have to take both Denuvo and the developers word that the .exe is all the space Denuvo takes.

Originally posted by Pheace:

If Denuvo disappears it takes one upload of the uncracked exe for any dev to fix it. The risk doesn't happen till both developer and Denuvo disappear.

No the risk happens if Denuvo shuts down. As there will be some that don't care to fix as they have made their money already.

Originally posted by Pheace:

They're happening because they know people pirate games. There's no assumption needed there, it happens.

Not to the degree that everyone else gets essentially an objectively worse experience because of it. If anything Denuvo getting possibly cracked one day is also more of a risk for piracy then if they didn't have Denuvo at all. The people that pirate a game because they want it for free are unlikely going to buy it if they can't pirate it. And the people that would, I bet you can count on one hand.

The amount of people that don't like Denuvo, are more then likely far bigger, maybe even more then people that pirate games.

[lukaself]

Once Denuvo or the developers shut down it'll be too late to care because there will be no-one to fix it.

[Anime]

Originally posted by lukaself:

Once Denuvo or the developers shut down it'll be too late to care because there will be no-one to fix it.

Once a giant meteor crashes into earth, we will all be dead.