denuvo? in 2025? seriously?

[scragglie]

are we still doing this? oh wait its nexon nevermind. it all makes sense now. the worst gaming publication on earth

[lukaself]

Let's not bicker over points of detail. Everyone has different expectations but it's clear we're all united in wanting Denuvo and other bad practices gone.

[min3r95]

Publicado originalmente por parent child bowl:

Yes, it is. If you buy something, you support it. That's how it works. If you don't have a principled stance, you could as well not have a stance at all.

Blabbing doesn't change anything. Money talks. If you buy stuff with garbage practices, you support garbage practices.

Not at all, you only support something bad when you're trying to defend it, not buying the products that come with it.
Feedback about bad practices need to come from both: outside and inside of the crowds that bought the games.

You can choose to buy the games while criticize the bad practices and ask for better, while criticize intrusive DRMs and tell publishers why you don't want to buy the games that come with them doesn't make you a pirate, that's my stance.

Whether it's a double standard or not, calling people pirates because they didn't buy the game, or tell them how irrelevant they are since they already paid for the game, whether they belong to conflicted and different sides,both are just wrong by default, since they are both doing the same thing : silent anyone who want Denuvo gone and invalidating their assertions, framing them as unreasonable, and you're playing a part of that.

[Trofast 🤕]

@min3r95, to be frank. i understand what you are saying but heavily disagree:

- why the f-ck would they do something about bad practice if people still buy their ♥♥♥♥?

[parent child bowl]

Publicado originalmente por min3r95:

Publicado originalmente por parent child bowl:

Yes, it is. If you buy something, you support it. That's how it works. If you don't have a principled stance, you could as well not have a stance at all.

Blabbing doesn't change anything. Money talks. If you buy stuff with garbage practices, you support garbage practices.

Not at all, you only support something bad when you're trying to defend it, not buying the products that come with it.

Yes, buying the product means that you support what's coming with it. If you buy a salad with a ♥♥♥♥ in it, they will keep selling you the ♥♥♥♥ in your salad because they know that you will buy it.

If you buy a game where they removed a feature to sell it to you seperately, you are supporting that practice by buying that game even if you don't buy that feature because you are showing them that they can charge you the same for less.

Buying means supporting. By buying, we are keeping those bad practices alive. For most bad practices not buying the game is the only way to not support those practices.

[min3r95]

Publicado originalmente por Trofast 🤕:

@min3r95, to be frank. i understand what you are saying but heavily disagree:

- why the f-ck would they do something about bad practice if people still buy their ♥♥♥♥?

What would they do is something we'll have to see, right now we need feedbacks that come from both side like how I mentioned, if the people who bought your products doesn't even like intrusive DRMs like Denuvo, why would those who haven't bought the games like it and why would they even buy these games?

This will forced them to reconsider using this hostile middleware as it clearly devalue their products, as they going to look into what they're losing by using it, given how we already don't have proof that it have any positive effects on sales from the beginning.

Regardless, there's no reason to try and silent those who want to give feedbacks about the games they paid for, it's no less wrong than framing people as pirates.

[Gealdaydreamer]

2026 onwards

[min3r95]

Publicado originalmente por parent child bowl:

1)Yes, buying the product means that you support what's coming with it. If you buy a salad with a ♥♥♥♥ in it, they will keep selling you the ♥♥♥♥ in your salad because they know that you will buy it.

If you buy a game where they removed a feature to sell it to you seperately, you are supporting that practice by buying that game even if you don't buy that feature because you are showing them that they can charge you the same for less.

2)Buying means supporting. By buying, we are keeping those bad practices alive. For most bad practices not buying the game is the only way to not support those practices.

1)Not really, if I pay for a game it's because I want to play it, I don't have to enjoy or like everything it's offer or come with it, that why these forums are for, feedbacks.

2)I agree with you it's the best way to not support those, but that doesn't mean I have go around and tell people they're irrelevant to nullify their assertions just because they bought the products and want to be treat better.
I didn't buy this game, and I gave my reason, now it's the paid ones's turn to express that they want it gone.

[min3r95]

Publicado originalmente por lukaself:

Let's not bicker over points of detail. Everyone has different expectations but it's clear we're all united in wanting Denuvo and other bad practices gone. :clickbutton:

Agree.

[parent child bowl]

Publicado originalmente por min3r95:

Publicado originalmente por parent child bowl:

1)Yes, buying the product means that you support what's coming with it. If you buy a salad with a ♥♥♥♥ in it, they will keep selling you the ♥♥♥♥ in your salad because they know that you will buy it.

If you buy a game where they removed a feature to sell it to you seperately, you are supporting that practice by buying that game even if you don't buy that feature because you are showing them that they can charge you the same for less.

2)Buying means supporting. By buying, we are keeping those bad practices alive. For most bad practices not buying the game is the only way to not support those practices.

1)Not really, if I pay for a game it's because I want to play it, I don't have to enjoy or like everything it's offer, that why these forums are for, feedbacks.

2)I agree with you it's the best way to not support those, but that doesn't mean I have go around and tell people they're irrelevant just because they both the products and want to be treat better.
I didn't buy this game, and I gave my reason, now it's the paid ones's turn to express that they want it gone.:LeViada_normal:

1) For the seller it only matters that you buy it. That's unfortunately the reality of this industry. Companies will always do what they can get away with. And they are getting away with Denuvo for you and me. We're supporting the practice by buying the product.

2) I am not trying to divert you from uttering criticism. I am pointing at the reality of bad commercial practices and how they are succesful not in spite of us but because of us.

[lukaself]

Publicado originalmente por parent child bowl:

Publicado originalmente por min3r95:

1)Not really, if I pay for a game it's because I want to play it, I don't have to enjoy or like everything it's offer, that why these forums are for, feedbacks.

2)I agree with you it's the best way to not support those, but that doesn't mean I have go around and tell people they're irrelevant just because they both the products and want to be treat better.
I didn't buy this game, and I gave my reason, now it's the paid ones's turn to express that they want it gone.:LeViada_normal:

1) For the seller it only matters that you buy it.

I agree that not buying a game is a valid form of protest - but on its own, it often has little to no effect. Real pushback needs to come from both owners and non-owners.

Many companies today, especially those lacking in ethical business practices, actively target "whales" - a small but highly profitable segment of their user base. Interestingly, some studies (which these companies are certainly aware of) even suggest that whales and pirates often come from the same demographic. So, when sales are carried primarily by emotionally captive spenders, informed consumers who "vote with their wallets" can easily be ignored. They're simply not the target demographic.

Additionally, companies tend to care more about optics than substance. If you didn’t buy the game, you can’t leave a review or create public feedback on most official platforms. And unfortunately, silence gets interpreted as satisfaction or apathy - not critique.

A great example is Nier: Automata on PC. It received glowing reviews despite launching as a broken port. Why? Because the people who would’ve pointed out its issues didn't buy it, and therefore couldn't weigh in. That kind of scenario makes it clear why constructive criticism - even from non-buyers - matters.

Constructive feedback is essential, especially from paying customers, but also from non-buyers who are paying attention. Companies like Square Enix and Capcom have only softened their DRM policies after realizing that more paying customers were reporting issues than they expected.

This is why continuing to voice concerns, instead of just walking away, remains important.

[lukaself]

Honestly, I find it encouraging that people are disagreeing on the best way to protest Denuvo rather than whether to protest Denuvo at all. It shows that the conversation has progressed in the right direction.

[DaKa]

Publicado originalmente por sgrey:

Publicado originalmente por Squidpunch:

Yeah no Denuvo = *free game on torrent websites* Pirates HATE it. Game running flawless so far. And even better after their patch for DX12.

It's gonna be pirated even with denuvo. The only thing denuvo does is postpone the time when the game is cracked by a few days.

Steam decided to delete my post but you are wrong. Its so verifiably wrong its amazing you even say it. Look up black myth, Outlaws, The three new Like a dragon games, persona 3, dead space remake, persona 5 tactica, SMT V, etc etc etc only once the subscription is cancelled do they become available. OCCASIONALY theres other backdoors, and someone may put the time and effort to do it. but denuvo absolutely hinders, if not outright stops, the ability to do it.

[lukaself]

Publicado originalmente por DaKa:

but denuvo absolutely hinders, if not outright stops, the ability to do it.

Could you try to follow the course of the conversation? That comment you're replying to is months old and the discussion has long moved past that.

To sum up so you can catch up: What's the point of preventing piracy if it doesn't allow a title to sell any better or worse than other DRM-free titles, while losing actual sales to people who object to excessive DRM?

We're currently discussing what's the best way to signal publishers that Denuvo isn't welcome. Feel free to join in!

[Pheace]

Publicado originalmente por DaKa:

Steam decided to delete my post but you are wrong. Its so verifiably wrong its amazing you even say it. Look up black myth, Outlaws, The three new Like a dragon games, persona 3, dead space remake, persona 5 tactica, SMT V, etc etc etc only once the subscription is cancelled do they become available. OCCASIONALY theres other backdoors, and someone may put the time and effort to do it. but denuvo absolutely hinders, if not outright stops, the ability to do it.

Many of these people don't care if their argument is legit. They just want it to go away and they'll make up anything outrageous to make sure it does. Realistically the argument about Denuvo should long ago have moved on to more legit arguments like preservation and control yet 90% of the complainers still rehash the same old flawed arguments from years ago as if every Denuvo game is still getting cracked or its implementation still gets butchered like Rime where it ruined performance.

Besides, apparently pirates would never buy a game... But also piracy of games is supposedly actually good for games because they often end up buying the game after they try it first... People have no issues making these arguments in the same post.

Similarly there's supposedly no proven effect of Denuvo helping sales, but it's totally proven that Denuvo prevents sales, despite good games with Denuvo still selling like blockbusters. (proven net positive is a better but other argument)

Some would have you believe that the piracy scene has solved it and moved on (to renting games with Denuvo) but its discussions are still filled with posts lamenting Denuvo and glee when a demo releases for a potential bypass (like the recent Persona 3 reload) and then the disappointment that it has Denuvo on it.

[lukaself]

Publicado originalmente por Pheace:

[...]

"some would have you believe" "supposedly" "apparently" For someone who's so bothered about having a legit argument, I see a distinctive absence of substance. The receipts have been provided, your only option is to provide better evidence but you keep circling back to points that already have been addressed. Being dismissive is neither helpful nor constructive.

If you have evidence that Denuvo helps with sales, I'm ready to hear it, but I suspect your goal is to disrupt this conversation because you're unable to interact with it in good faith. That's childish behaviour. Grow up.