Parry

[BINI Revillame]

Whoever designed the parry system in this game just made it unnecessarily difficult. Why do you have to use 2 different buttons simultaneously to parry when you could've just allotted a different single-input? Re-binding it to a single button doesn't work, so is the "counter-attack" for unblockables. Is this their attempt to differentiate from souls games? If yes, then it sucks.

[sgrey]

Are you talking about the reflection? Because "parry" is a single button, but done at a proper time attack. You seem to be talking about special attacks of some enemies that require special action from the user.

[ZexxCrine]

Originally posted by sgrey:

Are you talking about the reflection? Because "parry" is a single button, but done at a proper time attack. You seem to be talking about special attacks of some enemies that require special action from the user.

they are talking about deflect. it should be difficult. the reward is crazy

[BINI Revillame]

Originally posted by sgrey:

Are you talking about the reflection? Because "parry" is a single button, but done at a proper time attack. You seem to be talking about special attacks of some enemies that require special action from the user.

Yes, I'm sorry. It's reflection. Reflection is the parry mechanic in this game.

[sgrey]

Originally posted by BINI Revillame:

Originally posted by sgrey:

Are you talking about the reflection? Because "parry" is a single button, but done at a proper time attack. You seem to be talking about special attacks of some enemies that require special action from the user.

Yes, I'm sorry. It's reflection. Reflection is the parry mechanic in this game.

I feel like there is some misconception or miscommunication here.
First we have guard. It's basically block where you don't get damage, but also have no impact on the enemy by default.
Second we have brink guard, or "parry". It's guard, but done at a proper time. So sekiro perfect parry. Both of these are done with just one button and they are more of game mechanics rather than skills.

And then we have skills you unlock with skill trees that have weapon strike attached to them after you block. A "common" skill applicable to everything is "reflection", which is done with holding "parry" and Y. Then in addition to that we have weapon-specific skills that enhance brink guard and also offer other options of guarding and dealing damage. They have a different button combo.

So to perfect-parry you only need one button, but then you need two buttons if you want to invoke skills. Kind of like Sekiro skills where you need two buttons to execute. I agree that button assignment in this game is a bit weird, but it seems that we are going to get a lot of skills later on in the game and they did it this way so that we can have several skills at once assigned to different button combos. I think there will be something like 5-8 active skills available later on, judging by the skill trees.

[BINI Revillame]

Originally posted by sgrey:

Originally posted by BINI Revillame:

Yes, I'm sorry. It's reflection. Reflection is the parry mechanic in this game.

I feel like there is some misconception or miscommunication here.
First we have guard. It's basically block where you don't get damage, but also have no impact on the enemy by default.
Second we have brink guard, or "parry". It's guard, but done at a proper time. So sekiro perfect parry. Both of these are done with just one button and they are more of game mechanics rather than skills.

And then we have skills you unlock with skill trees that have weapon strike attached to them after you block. A "common" skill applicable to everything is "reflection", which is done with holding "parry" and Y. Then in addition to that we have weapon-specific skills that enhance brink guard and also offer other options of guarding and dealing damage. They have a different button combo.

So to perfect-parry you only need one button, but then you need two buttons if you want to invoke skills. Kind of like Sekiro skills where you need two buttons to execute. I agree that button assignment in this game is a bit weird, but it seems that we are going to get a lot of skills later on in the game and they did it this way so that we can have several skills at once assigned to different button combos. I think there will be something like 5-8 active skills available later on, judging by the skill trees.

The way I understand the game, reflection is parrying. The "perfect guard" is deflect similar to Sekiro. And Counterattack is similar to mikiri counter.

My problem is that when I attempt to initiate reflect, there are times where Khazan charges a heavy attack instead of doing the reflection. Contrary to other soulslike games where parry is bound to a single input, it adds another layer of complicity aside from the timing.

I'm still learning the timings, but it is frustrating to do a charge attack instead of reflection when I need it. I'd rather not deal with the entire game guarding/evading when there's an option to parry. Then again, to each their own.

[sgrey]

Originally posted by BINI Revillame:

Originally posted by sgrey:

I feel like there is some misconception or miscommunication here.
First we have guard. It's basically block where you don't get damage, but also have no impact on the enemy by default.
Second we have brink guard, or "parry". It's guard, but done at a proper time. So sekiro perfect parry. Both of these are done with just one button and they are more of game mechanics rather than skills.

And then we have skills you unlock with skill trees that have weapon strike attached to them after you block. A "common" skill applicable to everything is "reflection", which is done with holding "parry" and Y. Then in addition to that we have weapon-specific skills that enhance brink guard and also offer other options of guarding and dealing damage. They have a different button combo.

So to perfect-parry you only need one button, but then you need two buttons if you want to invoke skills. Kind of like Sekiro skills where you need two buttons to execute. I agree that button assignment in this game is a bit weird, but it seems that we are going to get a lot of skills later on in the game and they did it this way so that we can have several skills at once assigned to different button combos. I think there will be something like 5-8 active skills available later on, judging by the skill trees.

The way I understand the game, reflection is parrying. The "perfect guard" is deflect similar to Sekiro. And Counterattack is similar to mikiri counter.

My problem is that when I attempt to initiate reflect, there are times where Khazan charges a heavy attack instead of doing the reflection. Contrary to other soulslike games where parry is bound to a single input, it adds another layer of complicity aside from the timing.

I'm still learning the timings, but it is frustrating to do a charge attack instead of reflection when I need it. I'd rather not deal with the entire game guarding/evading when there's an option to parry. Then again, to each their own.

So, parry by definition is a deflect and nothing else. I suspect you are talking about riposte.
If you are talking about souls, where you shield-parry and then the enemy becomes staggered so that you can smack him, then it's the "deflect" or brink guard in this game. It's a different system where you need to exhaust the stamina bar of the enemy to break the posture and deal brutal strike. It's not gonna happen with just one parry.

Reflection is a special skill, which is harder to execute than a deflect. You need to double-hit both buttons, or deflect button first and then Y. It's honestly quite hard to time it properly and I suspect they might not have all skill properly implemented in the demo...

I am currently replaying the demo just got over the monkey boss, so I am going to test out these skill now for better understanding.

[sgrey]

ok, I have tested it a bit more and here is what I found. You are correct, the game makes it confusing, but reflection is sort of parry of this game. It works exactly like deflect, but just stronger. Deflect on steroids, if you will.
Reflection is all about timing. There are enemies, like wolves, for example, that getting reflection on them is absurdly difficult. I was able to trigger it a few times by accident, but I can never do it consistently.

The way to properly trigger reflection, you need to first hold L1 or LB and then hit Y.

However you have to do it very early. Much earlier than you would do a brink guard on. When you hold L1 and then hit Y the character does this weapon animation. If you timed it correctly, the reflection will execute. I am still fighting a Yeti and testing it, but I can now hit it pretty consistently because I got the timing down.

The effect. I unlocked reflection and "do damage when succeed" skill. The effect doesn't seem as significant as I would hope, considering how difficult to execute this move. It does take a lot off the enemies' stamina bar, but if the stamina bar is mostly full, then the enemy just pauses for a second and then keeps going. To get full stagger you need to execute the reflection at a time when the stamina is below 50%. Or if the enemy staggers easier and maybe doesn't have as large stamina bar.

To be honest, I think just doing brink guard with weapon skill that do more stamina damage to the enemy and reduce your own stamina consumption is better. It's easier to execute and also does pretty close damage to reflection skill. Reflection might become better with higher-tire skills unlocked in that tree, though.

I will continue to test it with more opponents.

[tintingaroo]

Timing it is hard vs a single/opening strike, so I'm thinking its best use is versus enemy combo attacks.

I was experimenting against swordsmen and this is what I've concluded for now:
Use reflection versus the combo that starts with a double-handed overhead. Brink guard the overhead then go for Reflection.

I was getting it but think I actually figured out what teaches us the timing for Reflection: it follows brink guarding their single-hand combo, but we use reflection instead of guard for the second hit.

[sgrey]

So far I believe reflection is best used on a large strikes with slight delay, whether it a part of a combo or not. But the risk is too much imo.. Depending on the enemy you might die if you miss the timing.. And it also throws off the brink guard timing for you since you have to do it a bit early

[sgrey]

Originally posted by tintingaroo:

Timing it is hard vs a single/opening strike, so I'm thinking its best use is versus enemy combo attacks.

I was experimenting against swordsmen and this is what I've concluded for now:
Use reflection versus the combo that starts with a double-handed overhead. Brink guard the overhead then go for Reflection.

I was getting it but think I actually figured out what teaches us the timing for Reflection: it follows brink guarding their single-hand combo, but we use reflection instead of guard for the second hit.

I tested it against humans and I think you are right. It works really well against grunts, but you can just kill them with one strike anyway, so that's pointless. It also works on the big halbert-wielding dudes once you get the timing down. The best use of Reflection is against combos of strong enemies. When you bring the stamina down a little, use Reflection to immediately interrupt them and drain the rest. Then you can follow with a heavy if it not quite enough and get them to stagger, or they would go into stagger and you can go to town on them with whatever skills you have. The most tricky part of all of this is to execute it correctly. High risk high reward kind of thing.

[Mecharion]

Pressing two buttons to deflect sucks ass. How many mechanics do we need?

Perfect dodge.. perfect parry.. deflect.. blablabla.. stop it.. my brain hurts.. i want have fun

[JDlightside]

Originally posted by sgrey:

So far I believe reflection is best used on a large strikes with slight delay, whether it a part of a combo or not. But the risk is too much imo.. Depending on the enemy you might die if you miss the timing.. And it also throws off the brink guard timing for you since you have to do it a bit early

I'd say its usage as a rewarding defense mechanic seems much more specific than guarding or dodging. With the the demo final boss does at least, it does has some attacks where it is feasible enough to land reflection by reacting in timing with certain telegraphs. The reward is very much there too, potentially letting you skip entire boss attack patterns and do lots of free dmg if you land it.

[R3TRI3UTION]

The assignment of buttons is actually the most efficient layout when you consider how they will execute once full release comes with all the skills. Will flow like water.
Sure it takes some getting used to, but you can always rebind things to your liking.

[sgrey]

Originally posted by Mecharion:

Pressing two buttons to deflect sucks ass. How many mechanics do we need?

Perfect dodge.. perfect parry.. deflect.. blablabla.. stop it.. my brain hurts.. i want have fun

There is always pinball.. only 1 button, no need to think! Perfect game to have fun!

[sgrey]

Originally posted by JDlightside:

Originally posted by sgrey:

So far I believe reflection is best used on a large strikes with slight delay, whether it a part of a combo or not. But the risk is too much imo.. Depending on the enemy you might die if you miss the timing.. And it also throws off the brink guard timing for you since you have to do it a bit early

I'd say its usage as a rewarding defense mechanic seems much more specific than guarding or dodging. With the the demo final boss does at least, it does has some attacks where it is feasible enough to land reflection by reacting in timing with certain telegraphs. The reward is very much there too, potentially letting you skip entire boss attack patterns and do lots of free dmg if you land it.

Yes, I agree. I was so far testing it on the weaker enemies and for the weaker ones it doesn't make much sense. I am still grinding for skill points because I want to test more things, but I plan to test reflection on the final boss in the demo as well. At the moment I can use reflection on vast majority of the grunts without issues. I can do it on a yeti and on a bear. I have good success rate on large halberd guys as well. I am having a really hard time with wolves, monkeys, the boar and the fast sword-wielding guys, the ones that always hide near loot and ambush you.