Post Demo Thoughts and Assessment

[AlmightySkrew]

So, I beat the demo and just wanted to share some thoughts on the game. Most people seem to be obsessed with difficulty in games like this, but I tend to care more about the core mechanics for combat, RPG systems (player options and scalings), and general QoL details.

Overall, the game reminds me of Nioh more than any souls game. The RPG elements (player and equipment stats) are like a streamlined version of Nioh (if you've played Nioh 1 or 2, you know that's probably a good thing - I like those games, but you can't seriously say it isn't a bit... bloated).

The combat actually felt a lot better than (early game) Nioh, but I'm not entirely sure why. The timed block system is very well impemented to alleviate stamina management issues. The blocking system felt a lot like standard Sekiro, which is a huge plus from me. The difference between heavy and light attacks plays a lot around enemy blocking and hyperarmor, which tends to be a make or break combat design for these types of games.

The enemy design is okay (least annoying canines? Wow!). I thought the bosses were fun and good early game types. Some of the basic enemies were slightly too simple, but that's fine by me for an intro period. The telegraphing is surprisingly good for most enemies and makes a lot of sense. That's a huge plus since a lot of these types of games make enemies telegraph counter-intuitive moves to trip you up or "roll catch" you. All that really does is make you have to memorize a bunch of dumb attacks that don't make sense. The real difficulty in telegraphing is more in enemy combo attacks, but the block system helps alleviate that if you play defensively until learning the patterns better.

The weapons, skills, and upgrades seem really well thought-out. You can focus on different forms of defense (blocking, timed blocks, dodges, and a DS style parry) and offense (variations on combos, charge attacks, defensive follow-ups, etc.). You can even slot up to 3 special moves with very clear advantages detailed in their description. This is a really nice design, and I hope it provides the nuance and depth one would expect in the full game.

Dying to a boss/event (I died on one of the weapon trials because my controller unplugged, so those count!) puts your xp in the area before the encounter. It's better this way. I can't believe some games still put them in the boss arena. It's just annoying. I'd rather just lose the xp than have that graphic sitting in the arena while I'm trying to focus on the encounter itself.

Overall, I'm pretty impressed. The demo was great. There's always a chance the game will mess it up down the line of game progression, but I'm a bit optimistic on this one.

[D. Flame]

Game leans too heavily into parries, to the point where every other options is objectively inferior.

It also doesn't really fit with the character's concept. They are supposed to spend health for skills, have infinite stamina, and absorb health back by attacking enemies.

[AlmightySkrew]

Originally posted by D. Flame:

Game leans too heavily into parries, to the point where every other options is objectively inferior.

It also doesn't really fit with the character's concept. They are supposed to spend health for skills, have infinite stamina, and absorb health back by attacking enemies.

Other defensive options don't seem as good or just in general? I used a good mix of dodging, parrying (I assume we mean the timed block), and regular blocking. It makes a lot more sense to me for the blocking to be the "standard" defense rather than dodging. Offense was still useful and necessary for most fights.

I don't really understand the character's concept with the features you mentioned. Are those the mechanics you expect from a "berserker"?

[D. Flame]

Originally posted by AlmightySkrew:

Originally posted by D. Flame:

Game leans too heavily into parries, to the point where every other options is objectively inferior.

It also doesn't really fit with the character's concept. They are supposed to spend health for skills, have infinite stamina, and absorb health back by attacking enemies.

Other defensive options don't seem as good or just in general? I used a good mix of dodging, parrying (I assume we mean the timed block), and regular blocking. It makes a lot more sense to me for the blocking to be the "standard" defense rather than dodging. Offense was still useful and necessary for most fights.

I don't really understand the character's concept with the features you mentioned. Are those the mechanics you expect from a "berserker"?

Yeah, the perfect guard does a parry animation, and parry is quicker to type.

Dodging consumes stamina. Parrying does not.

You can attack after a perfect dodge, but it doesn't rush you in to the enemy, so it will usually miss. Parries don't move you so follow up should almost always hit.

Dodges do nothing to an enemy's stamina. Parries drain their stamina.

If you dodge too early, you get hit. If you try to parry too early, just just block.

Etc.

The only time I really use dodging, is to avoid grabs.

And yes, Berserker mechanics. In DFO, you could spend health to do big damage as a berserker. They also had a skill that let them regen health when they got low on health. I just think health steal would make more sense here.

https://youtu.be/w-RQbzY9A8M?si=4PgPK91p33BqsWQh

And in other games too, berserker like characters have their health constantly draining, and they get it back by killing enemies. If they don't kill fast enough, they die themselves.

[Rando Calrissian]

Originally posted by D. Flame:

Game leans too heavily into parries, to the point where every other options is objectively inferior.

It also doesn't really fit with the character's concept. They are supposed to spend health for skills, have infinite stamina, and absorb health back by attacking enemies.

Can agree with this, but I am near the end of the demo without relying on parrying. Good games should give the viable option of different playstyles. I am guessing I am going to suffer in this one by avoiding parrying. The greatsword poise and stagger has forced me to use that weapon type, since the dual was just becoming too difficult against some enemies without parrying.

[Rando Calrissian]

QOL in this game is impressing me. Even if this game turns out to not be of interest to me, the developer may very well be, and other developers should pay attention.

[AlmightySkrew]

Originally posted by D. Flame:

Yeah, the perfect guard does a parry animation, and parry is quicker to type.

Dodging consumes stamina. Parrying does not.

You can attack after a perfect dodge, but it doesn't rush you in to the enemy, so it will usually miss. Parries don't move you so follow up should almost always hit.

Dodges do nothing to an enemy's stamina. Parries drain their stamina.

If you dodge too early, you get hit. If you try to parry too early, just just block.

Etc.

The only time I really use dodging, is to avoid grabs.

And yes, Berserker mechanics. In DFO, you could spend health to do big damage as a berserker. They also had a skill that let them regen health when they got low on health. I just think health steal would make more sense here.

https://youtu.be/w-RQbzY9A8M?si=4PgPK91p33BqsWQh

And in other games too, berserker like characters have their health constantly draining, and they get it back by killing enemies. If they don't kill fast enough, they die themselves.

That's a great point. I found the dodge window more forgiving than parries (edit: for certain attacks), so I would dodge some of the bigger attacks with less clear timing (and grabs of course). It does somewhat seem like parrying has an inherent advantage, but there might be trade-offs that aren't apparent in the demo... I hope there are, at least.

The berserker point makes a lot more sense now. Thanks for clarifying

Originally posted by Rando Calrissian:

Can agree with this, but I am near the end of the demo without relying on parrying. Good games should give the viable option of different playstyles. I am guessing I am going to suffer in this one by avoiding parrying. The greatsword poise and stagger has forced me to use that weapon type, since the dual was just becoming too difficult against some enemies without parrying.

Perfect dodges are in the game. I'm not sure if the window to land them is harder or easier than the perfect blocks. It will probably be doable, but at the very least, you are trying a riskier playstyle. At least with perfect blocks you have a chance of regular blocking, but you don't really got that grace with dodges. Also, the greatsword has a skill that works like a dodge and attack at the same time. I wonder how good it is...

[Tim]

Originally posted by AlmightySkrew:

The combat actually felt a lot better than (early game) Nioh, but I'm not entirely sure why. The timed block system is very well impemented to alleviate stamina management issues. The blocking system felt a lot like standard Sekiro, which is a huge plus from me. The difference between heavy and light attacks plays a lot around enemy blocking and hyperarmor, which tends to be a make or break combat design for these types of games.

...

The weapons, skills, and upgrades seem really well thought-out. You can focus on different forms of defense (blocking, timed blocks, dodges, and a DS style parry) and offense (variations on combos, charge attacks, defensive follow-ups, etc.). You can even slot up to 3 special moves with very clear advantages detailed in their description. This is a really nice design, and I hope it provides the nuance and depth one would expect in the full game.

Early game Nioh is ROUGH, especially your first time, but I find this game has a similar problem: you don't get access to your weapon's kit quickly enough, and you have to spend points to unlock stuff that should be standard (like the deflect-attack, or switching between light and heavy attacks mid-combo). Really wish you started accruing Skill Points from the get-go since they're free to respec. I replayed the demo a couple times so far, and without skill investment, heavy attacks are the only thing worth using.

I do like the weapons once you get skills for them, though, and how each one has multiple identities including mutually-exclusive moves. Was quite partial to light-attack-charging greatsword and afterimage spear.