Running out of MP in dungeons

[Marigold]

So currently playing through the game on hard difficulty. First playthrough of a Persona type game. I have a good handle of the mechanics making sure to exploit weaknesses preparing for dungeons with info. Only problem I am having is managing MP. My party is always pretty healthy I don't really have to spam heals too much but I am running low on MP early on in dungeons.

I'm just got to the 4th city in the game. Doing a dungeon and was planning on leveling some adept archetypes but they chew through MP it feels so bad. It seems like the optimal way to level them up is to just keep using the archetype you've already mastered because then I can knockout dungeons in a single day/run and not have to worry about MP.

Maybe I am misunderstanding combat. Should I be using attacks with equipped weapons? They deal so little damage it doesn't ever feel worth attacking with them at all unless the weapon has an ailment effect on it which I've only come across a handful that do. Currently I've been using skills for 99% of the encounters in the game.

Is there something I am missing? Initially I was just going to stock up on Fruit Cordials from vendors but vendors only sell you 3 per city it seems and they are out of stock now. Is there somewhere that I can buy MP consumables? I have so much healing items that I don't really use with there were that many MP restore items.

[Jaevdo]

If you grind as Merchant you will get a lot of gold. Buy MP restoring items with it.

You can also switch to Mage and regen a small amount of MP with every "overworld" kill.

[Captain Bear Pangolin]

In Persona games the MP bar is basically your "welp time to go home" limiter so you don't rush through dungeons in a single day. That's why mp restoration items are very limited

There's a bit of skill involved with MP management like not necessarily using skills on every encounter, using HP skills (like the brawler) or free skills (like the faker synthesis) , etc ... but most of the time you end your dungeon run when you don't have MPs anymore.

[Marigold]

Originally posted by Captain Bear Pangolin:

In Persona games the MP bar is basically your "welp time to go home" limiter so you don't rush through dungeons in a single day. That's why mp restoration items are very limited

There's a bit of skill involved with MP management like not necessarily using skills on every encounter, using HP skills (like the brawler) or free skills (like the faker synthesis) , etc ... but most of the time you end your dungeon run when you don't have MPs anymore.

Well that's kinda lame. I wouldn't mind it that much if big enemies didn't respawn but they do so it forces you to avoid them which is really really lame :/

[Lucky Bagota]

I was having trouble with this, but here's my trick. Find one of those monster replenishing crystals near a rest/save point in a dungeon. Switch the main character over to mage and every overworld monster you beat (not in battle) you get 1 mp. Added bonus you can level grind here as well. Just don't destroy the cristals and go save every 5 minutes. It's grindy but saves on having to use items to replenish magic and if you stick around long enough you can level some archetypes levels as well. First time i did it was at the grand cathedral dungeon and the second time was in the deser dungeon with the wolves. I didn't care for the one with the plants that pop up out the ground. Took longer cause you have to wait for them to pop out. also switch hulkenberg to knight and have the first aid skill to heal yourself, only 2mp to cast which you'll make up real quick.

[Salty]

The Wizard Archetype learns Shield Blessing, which restores a good bit of MP every turn in battle as long as you have some stat boost. You should probably have this on everyone because its stupidly good.

If you have an item like the Berserk guantlets or have a skill that automatically casts a buff, you can stun an enemy, go into combat, pass all your turns, enemy is stunned, pass almost all your turns again then run from combat and repeat over and over to endlessly regenerate MP.

This also has the bonus of also giving you the Mage Passive's 1 MP to all every time you stun an enemy, so you restore even more MP.

Late in the game one of the elite knight archetypes learns invigorate 3, which is like shield blessing but doesn't require you to be buffed. stack them both on for even more MP.

[Marigold]

Originally posted by Salty:

The Wizard Archetype learns Shield Blessing, which restores a good bit of MP every turn in battle as long as you have some stat boost. You should probably have this on everyone because its stupidly good.

If you have an item like the Berserk guantlets or have a skill that automatically casts a buff, you can stun an enemy, go into combat, pass all your turns, enemy is stunned, pass almost all your turns again then run from combat and repeat over and over to endlessly regenerate MP.

This also has the bonus of also giving you the Mage Passive's 1 MP to all every time you stun an enemy, so you restore even more MP.

Late in the game one of the elite knight archetypes learns invigorate 3, which is like shield blessing but doesn't require you to be buffed. stack them both on for even more MP.

Wow that really sucks. I would much prefer if they just let me stock up on consumables like they allow for literally every other HP and Damage item I've come across. What's the point of preparing for up to two weeks in game just to not allow the player to refill their main resource for damage.

Super helpful tips though I appreciate it.

[Cyborg]

Originally posted by Marigold:

Originally posted by Salty:

The Wizard Archetype learns Shield Blessing, which restores a good bit of MP every turn in battle as long as you have some stat boost. You should probably have this on everyone because its stupidly good.

If you have an item like the Berserk guantlets or have a skill that automatically casts a buff, you can stun an enemy, go into combat, pass all your turns, enemy is stunned, pass almost all your turns again then run from combat and repeat over and over to endlessly regenerate MP.

This also has the bonus of also giving you the Mage Passive's 1 MP to all every time you stun an enemy, so you restore even more MP.

Late in the game one of the elite knight archetypes learns invigorate 3, which is like shield blessing but doesn't require you to be buffed. stack them both on for even more MP.

Wow that really sucks. I would much prefer if they just let me stock up on consumables like they allow for literally every other HP and Damage item I've come across. What's the point of preparing for up to two weeks in game just to not allow the player to refill their main resource for damage.

Super helpful tips though I appreciate it.

You need to make use of some of the archetype bonuses and optimize. Part of the deal with these kinds of games is that you have a ton of things to do with a limited calendar to work with. The main part of the pressure on the player in dungeons is with the blue bar. To mitigate that, make use of the mage or merchant trees.

You don't need to grind to beat the game, but you should be on the lookout for favorable monsters near teleportation cats. You should be able to jump in and out of academia to get the items you need.

[antja]

Originally posted by Marigold:

[quote=Captain Bear
Well that's kinda lame. I wouldn't mind it that much if big enemies didn't respawn but they do so it forces you to avoid them which is really really lame :/

On the other hand, if you could spam your strongest abilities all day long, the game would offer hardly any challenge.

[Marigold]

Originally posted by antja:

Originally posted by Marigold:

On the other hand, if you could spam your strongest abilities all day long, the game would offer hardly any challenge.

Well as I said I would not mind MP being a scarce resource IF large enemies did not respawn in a dungeon until it's completed. It actively discourages the player from taking on tough fights. Instead the more optimal strategy is to clear the easy mobs and speed past the difficult ones if your goal is to complete a dungeon in a single day.

I understand the intent of the developers is for you to NOT complete dungeons in one day and MP is the way in which this happens. However they give you all this time to prepare. Set up your gear, set up your party, stock up on heals. If you have a good handle on the games mechanics well then the game becomes quite easy and it should be easy if you are maximizing all battle mechanics. That is the whole point of preparing with information, setting up a good party, and stocking up on items. Or at least that is how I think it should be.

Again I don't have a problem with limited MP inherently. My main issue is that they limit MP but then all the enemies respawn at which point there isn't really a reason to fight them. Rather it would be more optimal to just run past them. The game is already easy in the same way that Pokemon becomes easy after understanding damage types.

[antja]

Originally posted by Marigold:

Originally posted by antja:

Well as I said I would not mind MP being a scarce resource IF large enemies did not respawn in a dungeon until it's completed. It actively discourages the player from taking on tough fights. Instead the more optimal strategy is to clear the easy mobs and speed past the difficult ones if your goal is to complete a dungeon in a single day.

I understand the intent of the developers is for you to NOT complete dungeons in one day and MP is the way in which this happens. However they give you all this time to prepare. Set up your gear, set up your party, stock up on heals. If you have a good handle on the games mechanics well then the game becomes quite easy and it should be easy if you are maximizing all battle mechanics. That is the whole point of preparing with information, setting up a good party, and stocking up on items. Or at least that is how I think it should be.

Again I don't have a problem with limited MP inherently. My main issue is that they limit MP but then all the enemies respawn at which point there isn't really a reason to fight them. Rather it would be more optimal to just run past them. The game is already easy in the same way that Pokemon becomes easy after understanding damage types.

In principle, I agree with you.

However, it seems that my experience differs from yours. I just finished the game on hard and there were definitely dungeons where I was running very low on mana. But it was still possible for me to finish all of them in one day. One exception was the first large dungeon in the cathedral. That took me two days.

I always managed to kill everything in every dungeon. There were some exceptions of course. When you spend a lot of effort for almost no gain, I skipped those enemies. And sure, a bit of farming was necessary in order not to fall behind in levels and to have enough MAG and Reeve.

[BigBlam]

First time playing an Atlus game as well but long time Final Fantasy player. In every game like this i have played, restoring MP is a simple task so you can just play however you like.

This game however i find myself getting frustrated because in the mines i used too much MP before getting to the dragon so i couldnt defeat him and since then ive been straight up scared of even using my MP. Right now im making my way through a dungeon and its taken me 4 days to get where i am and i only have 3 days left to finish it and i just feel like im going to run out of time and im extremely early in the game. Idk if im missing some fundamental gameplay mechanics or if im just absolutely trash at this game. Its feeling like the latter. Im trying to stick through it all because the story telling is so good and im interested in the characters.

I could go on longer with the problems im having so i guess it goes without saying but... Im having a real hard time with this game overall and i have to take a break after 2 hours so i dont get too stressed.

[Blunette]

Originally posted by BigBlam:

First time playing an Atlus game as well but long time Final Fantasy player. In every game like this i have played, restoring MP is a simple task so you can just play however you like.

This game however i find myself getting frustrated because in the mines i used too much MP before getting to the dragon so i couldnt defeat him and since then ive been straight up scared of even using my MP. Right now im making my way through a dungeon and its taken me 4 days to get where i am and i only have 3 days left to finish it and i just feel like im going to run out of time and im extremely early in the game. Idk if im missing some fundamental gameplay mechanics or if im just absolutely trash at this game. Its feeling like the latter. Im trying to stick through it all because the story telling is so good and im interested in the characters.

Atlus games are always in the camp of 'HP is plentiful but MP is a stingy git'. That being said, if you killed everything in the dungeon, you can generally gain enough experience/levels to be able to kill weaker enemies on the field with Mage to gain your party's MP back and reload them with the Magla Hollow. Being conservative with MP is fine, but sometimes you gotta stop being timid and beat something to death with sword/spear/stick. Brawler bodies everything but the knights/non-egg Humans/Specto's in Grand Cathedral and runs off HP for it's skills instead of MP.

That being said, I get the difficulty concerns you have. The first Atlus is always a doozy for folks. The MP issues DO get better, but at the same time I worry about you having to take four days on a dungeon. 2 for the start is one thing but I have no idea how it's requiring so many trips for you if you say you're scared of MP use.

Feel free to ask for help, y'know. No shame in it. I don't get what the issue is but then again I play Atlus RPG's all the time so I might overlook some issue a newcomer has.

[BigBlam]

Originally posted by Blunette:

Originally posted by BigBlam:

First time playing an Atlus game as well but long time Final Fantasy player. In every game like this i have played, restoring MP is a simple task so you can just play however you like.

This game however i find myself getting frustrated because in the mines i used too much MP before getting to the dragon so i couldnt defeat him and since then ive been straight up scared of even using my MP. Right now im making my way through a dungeon and its taken me 4 days to get where i am and i only have 3 days left to finish it and i just feel like im going to run out of time and im extremely early in the game. Idk if im missing some fundamental gameplay mechanics or if im just absolutely trash at this game. Its feeling like the latter. Im trying to stick through it all because the story telling is so good and im interested in the characters.

Atlus games are always in the camp of 'HP is plentiful but MP is a stingy git'. That being said, if you killed everything in the dungeon, you can generally gain enough experience/levels to be able to kill weaker enemies on the field with Mage to gain your party's MP back and reload them with the Magla Hollow. Being conservative with MP is fine, but sometimes you gotta stop being timid and beat something to death with sword/spear/stick. Brawler bodies everything but the knights/non-egg Humans/Specto's in Grand Cathedral and runs off HP for it's skills instead of MP.

That being said, I get the difficulty concerns you have. The first Atlus is always a doozy for folks. The MP issues DO get better, but at the same time I worry about you having to take four days on a dungeon. 2 for the start is one thing but I have no idea how it's requiring so many trips for you if you say you're scared of MP use.

Feel free to ask for help, y'know. No shame in it. I don't get what the issue is but then again I play Atlus RPG's all the time so I might overlook some issue a newcomer has.

I feel forced to use MP strictly with the stronger enemies because basic attacks see useless towards them or large group battles because it seems if they get a chance to attack i have high potiential of wiping.I cant seem to find a happy medium at all. And i have no shame in asking for help. I ended up here cause im looking for help, havent made a post cause i figured im not the only one.

[Blunette]

Originally posted by BigBlam:

I feel forced to use MP strictly with the stronger enemies because basic attacks see useless towards them or large group battles because it seems if they get a chance to attack i have high potiential of wiping.I cant seem to find a happy medium at all. And i have no shame in asking for help. I ended up here cause im looking for help, havent made a post cause i figured im not the only one.

Still kind of in the dark about what issues specifically or what foes... I'm going to assume Humans like Eggs and Hood-Chickens. First thing is that weapon strength dictates not just your Attack but also your magic power as well, so upgrading weapons at the shops in the same zone as Honeybee. If you don't feel ashamed about it, it might actually be worth it to restart to try to kill the Dragon in the Mines as it gives an excellent Warrior weapon that will easily carry you all the way until the next Deadline Dungeon. One thing you can consider is abusing Grius and his much higher natural MP pool as a Mage during the run up until the Magla Hollow by having him generate Press Turns alongside Hero (After all, this dungeon pretty heavily leans toward using the brand new Mage Archetype you just learned prior) before switching him to Warrior for the Human/Dragon bosses. You probably will pick up one or two defense-dropping items from the Blobs on the way, and buy the Ice attack items from the vendor outside. Two Warriors (Grius and Strohl) in the front, Mage in the back. Use the ice items to generate a press turn, then use a defense-drop item with that halved turn. Spam the Slash skills with the Warriors when you can, use Blizz with the Mage. Don't spam the defense-drop items but instead try to layer them so that right before it expires, you use it again to refresh/stack the debuff. Heal on the press-turns from the Ice items and the Dragon should go down, don't be afraid to restart the fight if things go south.

If you do that, get Wisdom to Rank 2 (Sitting on the Bench during the Day, doing the Request from the Nidia on how the Honeybee Kitchen works at Night, do both of those on your first day and you have Wisdom Rank 2 right away), and have one of the Water items (There is one in the Nord Mines by Magla Hollow, I think), you can make a sword for yourself or Strohl that has Fire affinity on normal attacks. Pair that with Inheriting Perfect Punch (Or Skull Cracker since that hurts more at anything but exactly 100% HP) from a Brawler and you have nigh-perfect coverage for everything but the minibosses and the Humans at the end of the dungeon for ZERO MP. You can give Hulkenburg Bot or Hama off Mage/Cleric to help out, but otherwise just regular-Attack with her and use her Knight's First Aid for all your healing outside of battle to keep MP efficency.

Other than that, my biggest advice is to use your items if you need to, and to focus-fire enemies one by one. You can easily get away with Normal Attacking down a wounded or lone enemy so long as it's not a Human, and if you have Healer, you can just patch up the wounds by using the Hero Passive in Field Combat. But early on when AoE is nigh non-existent, and you only have three Press turns, focus-firing foes goes a long way towards mitigating damage and thus mitigating MP/items.

Also, there's a water merchant who sells 3 Fruit Cordials in the Grand Cathedral area south of the Coronation Rock for a grand total of 90 MP for use whenever. Just in case.

I'm rooting for you, bucko. You can totally do it.

[BigBlam]

Originally posted by Blunette:

Originally posted by BigBlam:

I feel forced to use MP strictly with the stronger enemies because basic attacks see useless towards them or large group battles because it seems if they get a chance to attack i have high potiential of wiping.I cant seem to find a happy medium at all. And i have no shame in asking for help. I ended up here cause im looking for help, havent made a post cause i figured im not the only one.

Still kind of in the dark about what issues specifically or what foes... I'm going to assume Humans like Eggs and Hood-Chickens. First thing is that weapon strength dictates not just your Attack but also your magic power as well, so upgrading weapons at the shops in the same zone as Honeybee. If you don't feel ashamed about it, it might actually be worth it to restart to try to kill the Dragon in the Mines as it gives an excellent Warrior weapon that will easily carry you all the way until the next Deadline Dungeon. One thing you can consider is abusing Grius :mtp_grius: and his much higher natural MP pool as a Mage during the run up until the Magla Hollow by having him generate Press Turns alongside Hero :mtp_captain: (After all, this dungeon pretty heavily leans toward using the brand new Mage Archetype you just learned prior) before switching him to Warrior for the Human/Dragon bosses. You probably will pick up one or two defense-dropping items from the Blobs on the way, and buy the Ice attack items from the vendor outside. Two Warriors (Grius and Strohl) in the front, Mage in the back. Use the ice items to generate a press turn, then use a defense-drop item with that halved turn. Spam the Slash skills with the Warriors when you can, use Blizz with the Mage. Don't spam the defense-drop items but instead try to layer them so that right before it expires, you use it again to refresh/stack the debuff. Heal on the press-turns from the Ice items and the Dragon should go down, don't be afraid to restart the fight if things go south.

If you do that, get Wisdom to Rank 2 (Sitting on the Bench during the Day, doing the Request from the Papirus on how the Honeybee Kitchen works at Night, do both of those on your first day and you have Wisdom Rank 2 right away), and have one of the Water items (There is one in the Nord Mines by Magla Hollow, I think), you can make a sword for yourself or Strohl :mtp_strohl: that has Fire affinity on normal attacks. Pair that with Inheriting Perfect Punch (Or Skull Cracker since that hurts more at anything but exactly 100% HP) from a Brawler and you have nigh-perfect coverage for everything but the minibosses and the Humans at the end of the dungeon for ZERO MP. You can give Hulkenburg :mtp_hulkenberg: Bot or Hama off Mage/Cleric to help out, but otherwise just regular-Attack with her and use her Knight's First Aid for all your healing outside of battle to keep MP efficency.

Other than that, my biggest advice is to use your items if you need to, and to focus-fire enemies one by one. You can easily get away with Normal Attacking down a wounded or lone enemy so long as it's not a Human, and if you have Healer, you can just patch up the wounds by using the Hero Passive in Field Combat. But early on when AoE is nigh non-existent, and you only have three Press turns, focus-firing foes goes a long way towards mitigating damage and thus mitigating MP/items.

Also, there's a water merchant who sells 3 Fruit Cordials in the Grand Cathedral area south of the Coronation Rock for a grand total of 90 MP for use whenever. Just in case.

I'm rooting for you, bucko. You can totally do it. :SMT5V_JackFrost:

Thank you I’ll try to put this out information to work I appreciate the time you’ve spent explaining this. I’m going to attempt to do it without restarting. My children interrupt me every 5 mins as well so it’s hard to stomach the idea of restarting but I will if it comes down to it.