This is a rental

[EverNight]

So long as Denuvo is present you can't buy this game. You are only renting it. So I'll purchase it when Denuvo is removed or the price drops to an acceptable rental price.

[jclosed]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von moshiwakeda:

Has anyone here ever lost the ability to play a game because of this? A revoked license doesn't magically delete all copies of the software

I think this issue will not gain much traction because practically speaking it isn't affecting anyone. Many such cases

I have lost games to DRM. Several times actually. The cause is often a disk based DRM that gets no updates when a Windows update breaks the protection. I lost several games that way. Also I lost games because the authentication server was shut down, and the game no longer starts up because it cannot confirm if I "own" the game.

Say what you will, but once I download the off-line installers from GOG, and put them in safe place they are simply mine. Personally I use a storage like a NAS with RAID (Synology SHR), so even when a disk crashes the files are safe. And on top of that I use a backup USB hard disk, so I also have a copy on that system. Once that off-line installers are put in a safe place, and you do the minimum maintenance to keep them safe, they are in practice yours forever.

The off-line installers do not need a account, do not phone-home, do not even need a client (like Steam) or even a internet connection at all. They are just like the "old days" where you pop in a install medium and install a game without any interference.

You can argue all about the difference between renting or owning until you see blue. In practice, however I simply own the games, and nobody can prevent me from installing and playing those off-line games. For me that's more then enough.

Yes - You need a account on GOG, but only to purchase and download your game. You do not need a client (like the Steam client) at all, although GOG offers you a client (Galaxy) if you really, really want one. But even that client (unlike Steam) offers you to download off-line DRM-free and client-free game install files.

With Denuvo you are at the mercy of big company's. If they (for some weird reason) stop paying for Denuvo, or shut down the authentication servers, you are screwed. Badly screwed. You loose everything. You do not have the game you payed for, and also loose the money you payed for that game. What a great consumer service!. And do not say that it will never happen, because it WILL happen. It's not a question of IF, but a question of WHEN.

I can be sure that I can play my games I bought and downloaded from GOG several years from now. With Denuvo? Yeah - Good luck with that. You are going to need it...

[Xariot]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von jclosed:

I simply own the games, and nobody can prevent me from installing and playing those off-line games.

You do not and they can. Educate yourself on EULA and software ownership.

Don't like it? Stop using software.

[jclosed]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Xariot:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von jclosed:

I simply own the games, and nobody can prevent me from installing and playing those off-line games.

You do not and they can. Educate yourself on EULA and software ownership.

Don't like it? Stop using software.

No they can NOT, unless they break into my house and steal my storage. If they do they have another serious problem on their hand.

Nobody can stop me playing these games. Period. Stop saying stupid things about EULA and software ownership. That all theoretic, without any way to enforce that (unless they use that stupid Denuvo or another DRM). They do not matter one single bit when I have those of-line installers in my possession. As I said - In practice I own those game and can do with them what I want.

You can argue until you see blue, but all that arguing does not change that hard fact. I have those files and I do with them what I please. Try to stop me. You just can't.

[bruh]

it would still be a rental even without denuvo

[Minmataro]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von bruh:

it would still be a rental even without denuvo

Yep

[F.O.A.M]

this is digital media, you will never own the game. you will always be renting the game. the second steam goes offline so does your game.
so what is your argument?

[moshiwakeda]

Ownership doesn't really matter if it's just a thought. I own my drive and its contents are mine to do with as I please. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks about that. It's just a fact. It's a non-consumable item, so it can't be stolen. You can literally duplicate it infinitely

[HardcoreCasual]

Spoiler: All your digital games are only rentals. You own none of them. Unless you bought them from GOG.

[Faiyez]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von HardcoreCasual:

Spoiler: All your digital games are only rentals. You own none of them. Unless you bought them from GOG.

Your hard drives will break. Do you really own anything on them?

[Yhwach]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Nightmarian:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Yhwach:

Not exactly the same, no.
You still require a steam account to access the game,

You need a GoG account to access the game on GoG too. Once you download it, you can do whatever the heck you want, just like on GoG. You move the game to another computer, give it to your friends, make 100 copies and run it on a 100 computers.

Do you not know what DRM-free means?

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Yhwach:

and you have a "license" to play the game on the steam platform, meanwhile GOG doesn't require you to be logged into their own platform for any features except for some online functionality.

Brah, reaaaaaaaally? For the record, GoG also has a license and terms of service. Ownership licenses are not set by Steam or GoG, but by developers/publishers. GoG simply curates who gets to be on their store. If the developer has a license that you own the game--and I seriously doubt they do on GoG, they are talking about ownership in the colloquial sense where you can do whatever you want with the game, but it's still just a license to use the product--that license is generally mirrored on all store fronts because the developer doesn't just magically change their legal docs per store unless it's non-US and thus adheres to its parent nationality laws.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Yhwach:

There's a clear difference between Steam and GOG games for any steam drm enabled titles (developers don't have to use steam drm but most do) which restricts access to the title, unless there's a license verification done (again, some don't require this, most do).

You haven't explained any differences, let alone "clear" ones. You are also trying very desperately to ignore the hard, cold facts thrown on the table. While GoG exclusively forbids the use of DRM, many, MANY developers choose not to use any DRM on Steam, not even Steamworks DRM. From my experience, I have NEVER ONCE seen a game on GoG that magically had DRM on Steam. Any devs that sell on GoG are already willing to forgo DRM or actively hate DRM, so why the hell would they decide to use it on Steam? Especially since GoG games are already hyper easy to pirate?

The more you keep talking, the more it's obvious that you really, really don't know what you're talking about.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Yhwach:

So while you *can* make backups of GOG and Steam games, more than likely, there's going to be some restriction in place that blocks your regular access of the game for Steam titles, unless the developer opted not to actually use the steam drm.

Nope. This is objectively and provably false. I can list off a bunch of games from the last decade that are on both Steam and GoG, major ones btw, and they are literally identical and equally DRM-Free.

Maybe next time don't white knight a subject you know nothing about.

Steam for the most part isn't drm free and less than 90% of games actually opt out of the steam drm features, so you'd be incorrect in making a comparison with steam and gog, since one is *actually* drm free, and the other games most of the time are going to require you to have the steam platform with a valid license to play it.
I don't see why you made this comparison, since steam is generally a drm platform.
While GOG does require you to have an account, that's not in the same scope as steam requiring you to both have a steam account to *download* and *use* the product, it's not the same.

Steam DRM validation is still in many games, like I mentioned above, so there is in fact a vast quantity of games with drm on them with steam, requiring your account to have a license to access it.
I feel like this discussion isn't really going anywhere, since while you *can* make a backup copy of that steam title, it'll more than likely attempt to launch the steam platform since it has the steam drm active.

I hope that you find some enlightenment in the works of drm, since it's clear that you're going around in circles.

And that's not even discussing a second layer of drm (Denuvo) on the game either, which has hardware and online checks just to make sure you actually own it.

[Minmataro]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Yhwach:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Nightmarian:

You need a GoG account to access the game on GoG too. Once you download it, you can do whatever the heck you want, just like on GoG. You move the game to another computer, give it to your friends, make 100 copies and run it on a 100 computers.

Do you not know what DRM-free means?





Brah, reaaaaaaaally? For the record, GoG also has a license and terms of service. Ownership licenses are not set by Steam or GoG, but by developers/publishers. GoG simply curates who gets to be on their store. If the developer has a license that you own the game--and I seriously doubt they do on GoG, they are talking about ownership in the colloquial sense where you can do whatever you want with the game, but it's still just a license to use the product--that license is generally mirrored on all store fronts because the developer doesn't just magically change their legal docs per store unless it's non-US and thus adheres to its parent nationality laws.



You haven't explained any differences, let alone "clear" ones. You are also trying very desperately to ignore the hard, cold facts thrown on the table. While GoG exclusively forbids the use of DRM, many, MANY developers choose not to use any DRM on Steam, not even Steamworks DRM. From my experience, I have NEVER ONCE seen a game on GoG that magically had DRM on Steam. Any devs that sell on GoG are already willing to forgo DRM or actively hate DRM, so why the hell would they decide to use it on Steam? Especially since GoG games are already hyper easy to pirate?

The more you keep talking, the more it's obvious that you really, really don't know what you're talking about.




Nope. This is objectively and provably false. I can list off a bunch of games from the last decade that are on both Steam and GoG, major ones btw, and they are literally identical and equally DRM-Free.

Maybe next time don't white knight a subject you know nothing about.

Steam for the most part isn't drm free and less than 90% of games actually opt out of the steam drm features, so you'd be incorrect in making a comparison with steam and gog, since one is *actually* drm free, and the other games most of the time are going to require you to have the steam platform with a valid license to play it.
I don't see why you made this comparison, since steam is generally a drm platform.
While GOG does require you to have an account, that's not in the same scope as steam requiring you to both have a steam account to *download* and *use* the product, it's not the same.

Steam DRM validation is still in many games, like I mentioned above, so there is in fact a vast quantity of games with drm on them with steam, requiring your account to have a license to access it.
I feel like this discussion isn't really going anywhere, since while you *can* make a backup copy of that steam title, it'll more than likely attempt to launch the steam platform since it has the steam drm active.

I hope that you find some enlightenment in the works of drm, since it's clear that you're going around in circles.

And that's not even discussing a second layer of drm (Denuvo) on the game either, which has hardware and online checks just to make sure you actually own it.

He's cherry picking the few titles on steam that are drm free when ALL games on Gog are drm free, have options for backups and sharing. They function without the gog client as stand-alone exe files that u can install on anything. This dude must be a shill for Steam. he has no idea what he's saying.

[Minmataro]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Faiyez:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von HardcoreCasual:

Spoiler: All your digital games are only rentals. You own none of them. Unless you bought them from GOG.

Your hard drives will break. Do you really own anything on them?

Idiot if thats the case we own nothing at all. everything breaks, we can lose things in life. what a ridiculous post. lol

[Yhwach]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Minmataro:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Yhwach:

Steam for the most part isn't drm free and less than 90% of games actually opt out of the steam drm features, so you'd be incorrect in making a comparison with steam and gog, since one is *actually* drm free, and the other games most of the time are going to require you to have the steam platform with a valid license to play it.
I don't see why you made this comparison, since steam is generally a drm platform.
While GOG does require you to have an account, that's not in the same scope as steam requiring you to both have a steam account to *download* and *use* the product, it's not the same.

Steam DRM validation is still in many games, like I mentioned above, so there is in fact a vast quantity of games with drm on them with steam, requiring your account to have a license to access it.
I feel like this discussion isn't really going anywhere, since while you *can* make a backup copy of that steam title, it'll more than likely attempt to launch the steam platform since it has the steam drm active.

I hope that you find some enlightenment in the works of drm, since it's clear that you're going around in circles.

And that's not even discussing a second layer of drm (Denuvo) on the game either, which has hardware and online checks just to make sure you actually own it.

He's cherry picking the few titles on steam that are drm free when ALL games on Gog are drm free, have options for backups and sharing. They function without the gog client as stand-alone exe files that u can install on anything. This dude must be a shill for Steam. he has no idea what he's saying.

Quite the confusing response for sure.

[Yhwach]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Bearly Guilty:

Denuvo is a war crime at the kernel level see this if it doesn't work it can brick your PC or give corruption that are basically gremlins

Thankfully it only runs while the game is running and doesn't function unless you decide to launch a game that has Denuvo.
While I do wish that Windows would block kernel level access from most vendors, the most we've gotten is them suggesting limiting access, since it would put them in legal trouble if they just blocked it outright.

[EmperorVoidDragon]

So here is the thing whether you purchase it or not. If they can revoke and delete it then why play games anymore. Prices are going up to $70 now so when it goes to $100 $110 or more who will keep buying games anymore. Maybe we need a gaming crash and reset the market