This is a rental

[EverNight]

So long as Denuvo is present you can't buy this game. You are only renting it. So I'll purchase it when Denuvo is removed or the price drops to an acceptable rental price.

[Nightmarian]

Originally posted by Minmataro:

You dont own your steam games. want to own digital games? use GoG.

You don't own those games anymore than you do on Steam (because just like steam you only technically own a license to play them), and if it's on both GoG and Steam, which 99.9% of GOG's games are, there is literally no difference between the two.

The Steam version is just as DRM-free as the GOG one.

[Minmataro]

Originally posted by Nightmarian:

Originally posted by Minmataro:

You dont own your steam games. want to own digital games? use GoG.

You don't own those games anymore than you do on Steam, and if it's on both GoG and Steam, which 99.9% of GOG's games are, there is literally no difference between the two.

The Steam version is just as DRM-free as the GOG one.

Not true. u can easily back up and share GoG games. Download, burn discs, print manuals etc. its not the same. dont lie.

[Felix Krowe]

Is Denuvo... in the room with us now?

[Yhwach]

When you buy a digital game you buy a license for it, so it's not like there's much of a difference lol.
How people don't get how buying on steam or any digital platform works has always baffled me, and it's nice that courts are now making it clear that you don't "own" digital games, and that publishers/platforms must disclose that.
Denuvo, or No Denuvo, you still never really have ownership of these games and are "renting" them until the platform expires.

Denuvo is a menace for sure, but there needs to be an understanding of how purchases work.

[fknflo]

Originally posted by Moddingspree:

On steam, when you "purchase" a game, you are actually buying a license, not the game itself. So it doesn't matter whether it has denuvo.

I have tried explaining this concept to people for well over a decade, people just prefer to stay ignorant. Irregardless if you purchase the game online or physically, you are doing exactly what you said, you are buying a license to play the game. Nothing more, nothing less.

As far as Denuvo goes, whatever. People think what they think. There is no evidence that people who illegally acquire the game would have bought it if there was no other option.

I understand Atlus wanting to protect its IP, but from a legitimate customer PoV, its overkill. Steam already acts as a form of DRM, the 2nd layer of DRM is only creating potential issues for legitimate end users.

Atlus always makes bangers, and I am sure this is no different. While I prefer less DRM, it is what it is.

Have fun boys!

[Nightmarian]

Originally posted by Minmataro:

Originally posted by Nightmarian:

You don't own those games anymore than you do on Steam, and if it's on both GoG and Steam, which 99.9% of GOG's games are, there is literally no difference between the two.

The Steam version is just as DRM-free as the GOG one.

Not true. u can easily back up and share GoG games. Download, burn discs, print manuals etc. its not the same. dont lie.

You can do the literal same thing with Steam versions of the same game. I don't even know what to tell you. You can burn discs of Steam games, the manuals--if it has them--are in the game folder, though no one gives a ♥♥♥♥ about that. Very few GoG games have actual manuals and that has nothing to do with games perseveration so nice try with pointless fluff, and nice "etc" since you've realized you don't know what you're talking about and are now squealing scared in a corner.

It's hilarious that you're telling ME not to lie when you are clearly being intentiously malicious or ignorant. There are no differences between GoG and Steam versions of the same game except for a VERY select few instances and those are usually for incredibly old games, where GoG goes out of their way to include community fixes. But heck, the majority of Steam's games don't even use DRM. It's mostly AAA games from your usual greedy corps.

Way to prove yourself unreliable as all hell, though. There's nothing wrong with GoG but 99.999999% of the time you're not gaining anything over just buying it on Steam and certainly not it being DRM free, because it's that on Steam too if it's on GoG.

Originally posted by fknflo:

if you purchase the game online or physically, you are doing exactly what you said, you are buying a license to play the game. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's a moot point. That was true of physical media, and still is. The reality is no one is going to knock down your door to steal your physical copy anymore than they will knock down your down to search your drives for backed-up games.

It is this working realization that makes games perseveration even possible and has made the license argument mostly a joke for the last 3 decades, even if it's technically true.

[Yhwach]

Originally posted by Nightmarian:

Originally posted by Minmataro:

Not true. u can easily back up and share GoG games. Download, burn discs, print manuals etc. its not the same. dont lie.

You can do the literal same thing with Steam versions of the same game. I don't even know what to tell you. You can burn discs of Steam games, the manuals--if it has them--are in the download folder, though no one gives a ♥♥♥♥ about that because that has nothing to do wit games perseveration so nice try with pointless fluff, and nice "etc."

Not exactly the same, no.
You still require a steam account to access the game, and you have a "license" to play the game on the steam platform, meanwhile GOG doesn't require you to be logged into their own platform for any features except for some online functionality.
There's a clear difference between Steam and GOG games for any steam drm enabled titles (developers don't have to use steam drm but most do) which restricts access to the title, unless there's a license verification done (again, some don't require this, most do).

So while you *can* make backups of GOG and Steam games, more than likely, there's going to be some restriction in place that blocks your regular access of the game for Steam titles, unless the developer opted not to actually use the steam drm.

[Melodia]

Originally posted by fknflo:

I understand Atlus wanting to protect its IP, but from a legitimate customer PoV, its overkill. Steam already acts as a form of DRM, the 2nd layer of DRM is only creating potential issues for legitimate end users.
!

Almost certainly it's shareholders that are calling the shots here. They have to 'protect the assets' or whatever to keep the value of the shares. I mean I could be wrong, but given all I've seen over the years about why companies makes the decisions they do, this seems like a very likely reason.

[Yhwach]

Denuvo exists to protect the most important period of sales for a game so that's a given.

[Nightmarian]

Originally posted by Yhwach:

Not exactly the same, no.
You still require a steam account to access the game,

You need a GoG account to access the game on GoG too. Once you download it, you can do whatever the heck you want, just like on GoG. You move the game to another computer, give it to your friends, make 100 copies and run it on a 100 computers.

Do you not know what DRM-free means?

Originally posted by Yhwach:

and you have a "license" to play the game on the steam platform, meanwhile GOG doesn't require you to be logged into their own platform for any features except for some online functionality.

Brah, reaaaaaaaally? For the record, GoG also has a license and terms of service. Ownership licenses are not set by Steam or GoG, but by developers/publishers. GoG simply curates who gets to be on their store. If the developer has a license that you own the game--and I seriously doubt they do on GoG, they are talking about ownership in the colloquial sense where you can do whatever you want with the game, but it's still just a license to use the product--that license is generally mirrored on all store fronts because the developer doesn't just magically change their legal docs per store unless it's non-US and thus adheres to its parent nationality laws.

Originally posted by Yhwach:

There's a clear difference between Steam and GOG games for any steam drm enabled titles (developers don't have to use steam drm but most do) which restricts access to the title, unless there's a license verification done (again, some don't require this, most do).

You haven't explained any differences, let alone "clear" ones. You are also trying very desperately to ignore the hard, cold facts thrown on the table. While GoG exclusively forbids the use of DRM, many, MANY developers choose not to use any DRM on Steam, not even Steamworks DRM. From my experience, I have NEVER ONCE seen a game on GoG that magically had DRM on Steam. Any devs that sell on GoG are already willing to forgo DRM or actively hate DRM, so why the hell would they decide to use it on Steam? Especially since GoG games are already hyper easy to pirate?

The more you keep talking, the more it's obvious that you really, really don't know what you're talking about.

Originally posted by Yhwach:

So while you *can* make backups of GOG and Steam games, more than likely, there's going to be some restriction in place that blocks your regular access of the game for Steam titles, unless the developer opted not to actually use the steam drm.

Nope. This is objectively and provably false. I can list off a bunch of games from the last decade that are on both Steam and GoG, major ones btw, and they are literally identical and equally DRM-Free.

Maybe next time don't white knight a subject you know nothing about.

[fknflo]

Originally posted by Nightmarian:

Originally posted by Minmataro:

Not true. u can easily back up and share GoG games. Download, burn discs, print manuals etc. its not the same. dont lie.

You can do the literal same thing with Steam versions of the same game. I don't even know what to tell you. You can burn discs of Steam games, the manuals--if it has them--are in the game folder, though no one gives a ♥♥♥♥ about that. Very few GoG games have actual manuals and that has nothing to do with games perseveration so nice try with pointless fluff, and nice "etc" since you've realized you don't know what you're talking about and are now squealing scared in a corner.

It's hilarious that you're telling ME not to lie when you are clearly being intentiously malicious or ignorant. There are no differences between GoG and Steam versions of the same game except for a VERY select few instances and those are usually for incredibly old games, where GoG goes out of their way to include community fixes. But heck, the majority of Steam's games don't even use DRM. It's mostly AAA games from your usual greedy corps.

Way to prove yourself unreliable as all hell, though. There's nothing wrong with GoG but 99.999999% of the time you're not gaining anything over just buying it on Steam and certainly not it being DRM free, because it's that on Steam too if it's on GoG.

Originally posted by fknflo:

if you purchase the game online or physically, you are doing exactly what you said, you are buying a license to play the game. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's a moot point. That was true of physical media, and still is. The reality is no one is going to knock down your door to steal your physical copy anymore than they will knock down your down to search your drives for backed-up games.

It is this working realization that makes games perseveration even possible and has made the license argument mostly a joke for the last 3 decades, even if it's technically true.

Yes, it is a moot point. It was an observation. The average person thinks they own a game whether its physical or digital, when in reality they dont. I rarely see people understand this simple concept, so I pointed it out. It has nothing to do with the topic, just refreshing to see a educated person in this regard.

[Melodia]

Originally posted by Nightmarian:

I have NEVER ONCE seen a game on GoG that magically had DRM on Steam.

Well there's Yakuza: Like a Dragon. Who knows what's up with that.

[Birck]

Damn this dude living in the year 2005 when you could walk into a movie/game rental place like Blockbuster and rent this thing.

Must be nice!

By his definition every game is a rental, because if the service goes down for any reason you can't download the game ever again unless the company behind it bends over backwards to continue that.

Denuvo is also removed from most games at some point since it costs the company behind the game money continuously.

[fknflo]

Originally posted by Birck:

Damn this dude living in the year 2005 when you could walk into a movie/game rental place like Blockbuster and rent this thing.

Must be nice!

By his definition every game is a rental, because if the service goes down for any reason you can't download the game ever again unless the company behind it bends over backwards to continue that.

Denuvo is also removed from most games at some point since it costs the company behind the game money continuously.

I mean he isnt wrong, whether its 2004 or 2024, when you buy a game you buy a license to play the game as many have mentioned. In reality, it means nothing. Atlus isnt ever going to a persons home and taking their physical copy of P5. Its all just legal talk to make sure they are protected at all times.

The possible repercussions of this with respect to digital are still tbd, has a large online marketplace gone down and with it libraries of games owned by users? If so, Id love a link to see how it all played out.

[moshiwakeda]

Has anyone here ever lost the ability to play a game because of this? A revoked license doesn't magically delete all copies of the software

I think this issue will not gain much traction because practically speaking it isn't affecting anyone. Many such cases