Remove Denuvo

[Singh]

No interest in buying this game (or even wishlisting it for that matter) until Denuvo is removed.

I'll also assume some of the technical problems people are complaining about may also be attributed to poor implementation of Denuvo (or perhaps just Denuvo itself) as has been the case repeatedly in the past with other games (that other developers have acknowledged).

[lukaself]

Ursprungligen skrivet av MancSoulja:

Ursprungligen skrivet av N/A:

Absolutely nothing because the pirates are in a league of their own and cannot be beaten. You can't get somewhere you are already at. I say all this as matter of fact and not whatever weird game it is you and others are playing.

Denuvo's literally beaten them. Keep up, why do you think they're so mad? There's one person on the planet currently capable of cracking Denuvo and she doesn't do it anymore unless its a game she wants to play and Empress hates JRPGs.

Persona 3 Reload still hasn't been cracked. the wars over, Denuvo won lol

Edit: After checking Persona 4 Royal still hasn't even been cracked and that released on PC nearly 3 years ago.

You're years behind the new ways to pirate games. Denuvo offline activation sites are all the rage now. No cracking required. They have all the latest games on release day, Wukong, FC2025, FFXVI... Denuvo isn't relevant anymore.

Meanwhile, new games without strong anti-piracy protections still dominate the video game market...(Source[imgur.com]) BG3, Palworld, Balatro, Satisfactory, DB Sparking Zero with 3 million copies sold the first day without DRM... Denuvo has been used 45% less than in 2023 (20 as opposed to 36 - games last year - Source[www.pcgamingwiki.com]) despite more games released than ever
- Even EA is releasing their major title Dragon Age Veilguard WITHOUT ANY DRM (Source[www.gamesradar.com]).

I think the industry will be just fine without Denuvo.

[Axaroth]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Singh:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Bovine:

I'll say it again - it does not harm your PC.

Having the game run at a worse frame rate with denuvo off vs on != harming your PC

Don't try to re-frame the issue.

What part of Denuvo having no benefit to the consumer and harming performance of the product they bought is difficult for you to understand?

It's not about the consumer, it's about protecting the devs game so people don't play it for free, weird concept I know!

[MancSoulja]

Ursprungligen skrivet av lukaself:

Ursprungligen skrivet av MancSoulja:

Denuvo's literally beaten them. Keep up, why do you think they're so mad? There's one person on the planet currently capable of cracking Denuvo and she doesn't do it anymore unless its a game she wants to play and Empress hates JRPGs.

Persona 3 Reload still hasn't been cracked. the wars over, Denuvo won lol

Edit: After checking Persona 4 Royal still hasn't even been cracked and that released on PC nearly 3 years ago.

You're years behind the new ways to pirate games. Denuvo offline activation sites are all the rage now. No cracking required. They have all the latest games on release day, Wukong, FC2025, FFXVI... Denuvo isn't relevant anymore.

Meanwhile, new games without strong anti-piracy protections still dominate the video game market...(Source[imgur.com]) BG3, Palworld, Balatro, Satisfactory, DB Sparking Zero with 3 million copies sold the first day without DRM... Denuvo has been used 45% less than in 2023 (20 as opposed to 36 - games last year - Source[www.pcgamingwiki.com]) despite more games released than ever
- Even EA is releasing their major title Dragon Age Veilguard WITHOUT ANY DRM (Source[www.gamesradar.com]).

I think the industry will be just fine without Denuvo.

That’s a different thing and it’s a security problem with Steam not Denuvo.

They’re not exploiting Denuvo their exploiting a bug in Steam’s offline mode.

[Pheace]

Ursprungligen skrivet av MancSoulja:

That’s a different thing and it’s a security problem with Steam not Denuvo.

They’re not exploiting Denuvo their exploiting a bug in Steam’s offline mode.

Also much less convenient to do, +payments, and you're expected to stay offline so good luck if you wanted workshop usage or any online play. Saw some people's tokens kept resetting so they had to request new tokens from the accounts owner several times over a few days.

[lukaself]

Ursprungligen skrivet av MancSoulja:

Ursprungligen skrivet av lukaself:

You're years behind the new ways to pirate games. Denuvo offline activation sites are all the rage now. No cracking required. They have all the latest games on release day, Wukong, FC2025, FFXVI... Denuvo isn't relevant anymore.

Meanwhile, new games without strong anti-piracy protections still dominate the video game market...(Source[imgur.com]) BG3, Palworld, Balatro, Satisfactory, DB Sparking Zero with 3 million copies sold the first day without DRM... Denuvo has been used 45% less than in 2023 (20 as opposed to 36 - games last year - Source[www.pcgamingwiki.com]) despite more games released than ever
- Even EA is releasing their major title Dragon Age Veilguard WITHOUT ANY DRM (Source[www.gamesradar.com]).

I think the industry will be just fine without Denuvo.

That’s a different thing and it’s a security problem with Steam not Denuvo.

They’re not exploiting Denuvo their exploiting a bug in Steam’s offline mode.

Not quite relevant to the point you were making. You claimed Denuvo beat piracy, yet piracy is still there, they moved to a place where Denuvo can't reach them and now they're making money out of it, even.

Valve definitely could have patched that hole already. Why do you think they don't? Why do you think they never invested in better DRM? Because they're ideally placed to know that those pirates aren't interested in buying, or simply can't buy to begin with... those people aren't lost sales.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pheace:

Ursprungligen skrivet av MancSoulja:

That’s a different thing and it’s a security problem with Steam not Denuvo.

They’re not exploiting Denuvo their exploiting a bug in Steam’s offline mode.

Also much less convenient to do, +payments, and you're expected to stay offline so good luck if you wanted workshop usage or any online play. Saw some people's tokens kept resetting so they had to request new tokens from the accounts owner several times over a few days.

At 1€ to play the latest releases, Denuvo or not, do you really think pirates care? If they cared for convenience and extra features, they would have bought the game already.

[Pheace]

Ursprungligen skrivet av lukaself:

At 1€ to play the latest releases, Denuvo or not, do you really think pirates care? If they cared for convenience and extra features, they would have bought the game already.

So, you don't believe that there are pirates who pirate 'because Denuvo'? That's just a lie then? (by them, not you)

Also I do think paying someone, and juggling accounts (if they have their normal account as well) and still forced offline, and still Denuvo could certainly dissuade some people. Heck paying alone and thus revealing payment info could already be an issue for some and else they have to deal with crypto.

And it could also crash any moment if/when Steam makes changes. The guy that had his token reset every 16 hours or so, it's quite possible that's a sign to come.

[min3r95]

Ursprungligen skrivet av lukaself:

Valve definitely could have patched that hole already. Why do you think they don't? Why do you think they never invested in better DRM? Because they're ideally placed to know that those pirates aren't interested in buying, or simply can't buy to begin with... those people aren't lost sales.

Either Valve or Irdeto themselves could easily "fix" this problem, but deep down they know, the moment this system can't be take advantage of anymore, the Denuvo popping scene will become more and more active than before

[lukaself]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pheace:

Ursprungligen skrivet av lukaself:

At 1€ to play the latest releases, Denuvo or not, do you really think pirates care? If they cared for convenience and extra features, they would have bought the game already.

So, you don't believe that there are pirates who pirate 'because Denuvo'? That's just a lie then? (by them, not you)

Them? I feel like I’ve made my point clearly, and I don't see the need to address unrelated claims or engage in circular arguments. I think we've covered everything relevant, so I’ll leave it at that. Thanks for the discussion.

[lukaself]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Axaroth:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Singh:

Don't try to re-frame the issue.

What part of Denuvo having no benefit to the consumer and harming performance of the product they bought is difficult for you to understand?

It's not about the consumer, it's about protecting the devs game so people don't play it for free, weird concept I know!

Yes, games are created to protect developers’ interests, but they ultimately exist for consumers. If a product, like a game with Denuvo, negatively impacts performance or introduces unwanted features like install limits or online requirements, it can deter sales. I'm fairly certain the multiple Denuvo outages the Persona series suffered because of Denuvo durably damaged the developer's reputation. Here's the latest occurence: https://gamerant.com/denuvo-outage-servers-down-persona-5-royal-unplayable-online/.

There are better ways to deal with piracy which do not put the burden on paying customers. For instance, games like Baldur's Gate 3, Cyberpunk 2077, and The Witcher 3 have successfully curbed piracy by delivering exceptional quality and value to consumers, rather than relying on restrictive anti-piracy measures.

Baldur's Gate 3 has received praise for its rich storytelling, engaging gameplay, and responsive developer support, encouraging players to buy rather than pirate.
Cyberpunk 2077 has made significant strides in improving its initial performance issues through updates, showcasing a commitment to consumer satisfaction that builds loyalty.
The Witcher 3 built a strong reputation with expansive content, free DLCs, and community engagement, creating a compelling reason for players to purchase the game.

Protecting the game is important, but it must be balanced with the expectations of paying customers. By focusing on delivering high-quality experiences, developers can create a loyal fanbase that prefers to purchase the game rather than resorting to piracy.

[CrimNinja]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Axaroth:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Singh:

Don't try to re-frame the issue.

What part of Denuvo having no benefit to the consumer and harming performance of the product they bought is difficult for you to understand?

It's not about the consumer, it's about protecting the devs game so people don't play it for free, weird concept I know!

Sure. I personally have no issue paying for games. But I still refuse to buy any games that have denuvo anymore simply because it is just a strictly worse experience in my case. I can't tab out and have a video running or chat in the middle of my play session. This is exclusive to Denuvo games and I just absolutely hate it. And this is ignoring the random frame drops that I get. It's pushed me enough to not want to buy Denuvo products.

[Pheace]

Ursprungligen skrivet av CrimNinja:

I can't tab out and have a video running or chat in the middle of my play session.

That does not sound like a Denuvo issue...

[Diabolical Taco]

And yet the hilarity of the anti-Denuvo mob continues. Sure, batter up for your next game that won't have Denuvo, and you anti-Denuvo nuts better buy it in droves if you actually support the practice: Veilguard won't have it. Enjoy. I'll be too busy playing Metaphor, which, by the way, has had zero performance hiccups for me in over 30 hours.

[lukaself]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Diabolical Taco:

And yet the hilarity of the anti-Denuvo mob continues. Sure, batter up for your next game that won't have Denuvo, and you anti-Denuvo nuts better buy it in droves if you actually support the practice: Veilguard won't have it. Enjoy. I'll be too busy playing Metaphor, which, by the way, has had zero performance hiccups for me in over 30 hours.

Good for you? We never said anyone to stop enjoying great games. I highly doubt Veilguard will be better than Metaphor though, I'll grant you that.

[DrkCntry]

Denuvo, regardless of your opinion of it, has achieved victory over piracy in a sense.

For the vast majority of implementation of it, it has almost completely curbed day 1 and casual forms of piracy, which is the largest contributor to the proverbial lost sale.

A drop in usage and implementation doesn't mean that Denuvo isn't working, it's a balance between when a studio/publisher feel that subscribing to Denuvo's services outweigh the perceived losses that may occur in their opinion. It's no different than any person making a decision about, say, paying for Netflix; does this service meet or exceed my perception of content to cost.

Now, you can take this however you want, but as someone who has professionally worked in this industry and have spoken to great length with colleagues over this topic, I've got a little bit more insight than just the average gamer.

[Xengre]

Ursprungligen skrivet av lukaself:

Ursprungligen skrivet av MancSoulja:

Denuvo's literally beaten them. Keep up, why do you think they're so mad? There's one person on the planet currently capable of cracking Denuvo and she doesn't do it anymore unless its a game she wants to play and Empress hates JRPGs.

Persona 3 Reload still hasn't been cracked. the wars over, Denuvo won lol

Edit: After checking Persona 4 Royal still hasn't even been cracked and that released on PC nearly 3 years ago.

You're years behind the new ways to pirate games. Denuvo offline activation sites are all the rage now. No cracking required. They have all the latest games on release day, Wukong, FC2025, FFXVI... Denuvo isn't relevant anymore.

Meanwhile, new games without strong anti-piracy protections still dominate the video game market...(Source[imgur.com]) BG3, Palworld, Balatro, Satisfactory, DB Sparking Zero with 3 million copies sold the first day without DRM... Denuvo has been used 45% less than in 2023 (20 as opposed to 36 - games last year - Source[www.pcgamingwiki.com]) despite more games released than ever
- Even EA is releasing their major title Dragon Age Veilguard WITHOUT ANY DRM (Source[www.gamesradar.com]).

I think the industry will be just fine without Denuvo.

Removing posts using your moderator account can be added as another offense in addition to you advocating precise steps on how to engage in piracy in the quoted post, suggesting bypassing Steam family sharing rules, suggesting bypassing Steam region rules, and violating individual license purchases of software from the developers via such sites.

For those wondering, Lukas has long been suspected of being an alt account of a moderator pushing propaganda and been able to push out immediate bans and remove his own posts and other posts to hide evidence when he screws up just like he deleted my post, which was originally post # 169 and is now missing. Naturally, he did this silently without any communications from Steam moderation community to hide this fact so thta I would hopefully not repeat the point of his violation and assume it was still there.

Unfortunately for you, I've not only recorded video of your post, my reporting your post so no one can say it was never reported / known, but also me making my own post # 169 and it vanishing. I have thorough evidence of your manipulation and your abuse of your moderator access which I will be passing on to Steam community support directly now.
Screenshot from that video here: https://ibb.co/nP6KmRp

This post is also recorded. Delete it by all means and add to your pile. Even if another moderator claimed some nonsensical excuse for deleting it and claiming they aren't you, they would still be violating the rules by not handling your multi-rule severe breaking post.