The Balancing in this game is Atrocious.

[Proudly Toxic]

I see people complaining about the modern themes in this game. I'm going to be galaxy brained and instead actually complain about the gameplay.

I expected this to be a game where I would use the job system to tailor a well balanced team that could handle any situation thrown at it by being able to hit a variety of weaknesses, that I'd adjust further if I found that there was a pattern to enemy types in a specific area.

Instead the game has abilities that give you bonus damage and crit chance if you have duplicates of the same archetype in your party, and gives you access to a Phys Almighty skill with 35% crit chance before the first real dungeon.

Phys Almighty will benefit from Heat Up and from Discipline, since its a Physical Skill, despite doing Almighty damage. Because its Almighty, it will bypass phys repel, phys resist, phys null, and even phys absorb.

Because you can get its crit chance to 55% with 4 people going merchant, it is more effective than trying to hit weaknesses since you'll almost always crit and do more damage thanks to the 40% damage boost from Heat Up.

It costs money, but Merchant on the protag is a money printer anytime you kill lower level enemies in the overworld. So if you ever are running low on money, you can just go back to Akademia in whatever dungeon you are to force respawn all spawns in your current level to go whack a moling for cash.

I just did the second story dungeon, I'm thinking of stopping here, since I now also have access to sukunda, tarunda and rakunda as consumable items. The story boss was unable to get any of my party members below half HP, and if it wasn't for the fact he has a phase hp gate that stops you from killing him, I would've skipped his entire second phase with this strategy.

Do yourself a favor and skip this game if you haven't bought it yet. Who at atlus thought it was a good idea to give Phys Almighty to your character WITH NO MP COST this early in the game?

Phys Almighty has been Meta in every atlus RPG it has been available in.

[Unforgiven]

Publicado originalmente por spoonygundam:

Publicado originalmente por Mayo:

Worst bit was just before late September when you're feeling a bit underpowered due to gold attack having fallen off, so you have to deal with an enemy turn or three. But its still sufficient to break most bosses over your knee with buffs and debuffs, just not as strong as the Elite Classes would be performing at this point.

I'll also point out the setup has major advantages even here at its weakest. Sogne seems to be a very common roadblock boss because people are going in without the right skills unlocked, but it was the same as any other boss VS Merchants.

Publicado originalmente por Unforgiven:

i said a few posts before where this guy called me out saying hitting over 10k is not possible on hard, which is funny af

I was saying hitting 8k+ against that specific 9/24 boss, which is before any of the endgame equipment and many of the Tier 3 Archetypes, including Mage ones, become available seemed unlikely, and wanted you to clarify how you did that, and you kept replying with builds that were literally impossible at that stage of the game.

I didn't mean you, there was a guy arguing that it's not possible to hit the dragons for over 10k on hard because he saw some video in normal hitting for 16k

[Unforgiven]

Publicado originalmente por AH-1 Cobra:

Publicado originalmente por Unforgiven:

yes thats normal dmg in this game with proper build and setup as i said a few posts before where this guy called me out saying hitting over 10k is not possible on hard, which is funny af
This game has the most broken endgame builds ive seen (compared to boss power)

So what buffs are you using to get 40k with the elemental master's meteor attack? I equipped the 2 turn amulet, used hyper (huge magic buff), then used the nuke. It hits mobs for about 15k a piece, and also for passives I had x4 mages with all the magic and almighty damage boosting passives, and synthesis damage passives, one of them had long range (the full party back row buff, doesn't stack with multiple equipped) So, what else were you using, or did you get 40k+ by counting up damage to multiples 15k x 3 = 45k, etc.

You use Hyper, Amulet, Synthesis dmg passive, 1x m.atk passive, 10% atk passive, put 2nd mage, use attack buff 2 from commander (also the 10% dmg passive for party) (this is with 400 atk staff that boosts all fire/electric magic significantly) and use weakness dance from persona master, you skip the 2nd mages turn and then your main has 2 turn icons left to use skyfall bolt or meteor and then nuke it
my highest hit on hard was 37k on endboss with the 500 atk staff which i got just before i did the boss, even on regicide it's hitting 25k to dragons

From my tests, both the synthesis dmg amulet and passive each double the dmg of synthesis, therefore both combined is ridiculous dmg

[shelledfade]

Publicado originalmente por 96,360 HOUR GOON SESH:

Publicado originalmente por shelledfade:

I was going to make a thread on this but no need if this exists.

1. Knight-Magic knight- from what I can gather after 44 hours - completely useless and does not prevent enemies from using AoE based abilities which makes it next to useless.

2. Warrior - just unlocked sword master and havent tried it too much but merchant hits way harder and isnt limited by enemy resistances.

3. Merchant - basically makes knight/warrior completely useless. It's basic coin attack hits harder then even warrior or knight "special sequence attacks" and at no MP coat. I found a spot where you can farm 8000 money every 20 seconds in the starter dungeon accessible from main city.

Thief seems useful but only for lifesteal and item steal.
Poison/sleep/ other ailments don't seem to effect or apply to any enemy that isn't just a regular lesser type of enemy. Ive never seen it apply to a human or a stronger boss-type.

Because you can assign any ability basically to any class it also makes healer classes obsolete.

Maybe it's still too early in the game but these are my observations so far, with the worst being warrior/knight by far.

The knight isnt that useless, knight has it’s place as knight’s proclamation heismay dodger’s charm strats or the royal archetype. The value in some of this skills are heavily reliant on people’s ability to thonk about it. Though yeah of course it doesnt work on AOEs but with the strat i suggested if they ever do a slash attack lil bro will dodge it on the spot.

In what way is the knight not useless when their taunt ability does not work against enemy AoE attacks? It does the lowest amount of damage that I've seen and its abilities are basically useless.

No idea what you're talking about as you didn't state why the knight is useful or good, you basically just said that we need to "thonk" about it. What are you even saying?

All that it has going for it is a line-based heal which is inferior over a healers heal because healer heal doesn't require you to be in a front position or a back position. When outside of combat you can switch to it to use its roaming-heal function which is about the only thing I've seen this class be useful for, other than that from what I've seen in 44 hours it is completely useless.

[Comatose Dolphin]

Publicado originalmente por shelledfade:

Publicado originalmente por 96,360 HOUR GOON SESH:

The knight isnt that useless, knight has it’s place as knight’s proclamation heismay dodger’s charm strats or the royal archetype. The value in some of this skills are heavily reliant on people’s ability to thonk about it. Though yeah of course it doesnt work on AOEs but with the strat i suggested if they ever do a slash attack lil bro will dodge it on the spot.

In what way is the knight not useless when their taunt ability does not work against enemy AoE attacks? It does the lowest amount of damage that I've seen and its abilities are basically useless.

No idea what you're talking about as you didn't state why the knight is useful or good, you basically just said that we need to "thonk" about it. What are you even saying?

Because thats how the utility has worked in every other game like Lancer and Paladin in Etrian Odyssey. Why would a multi target spell suddenly not be a multi target spell?

If the skill is programmed “use party wide 1 shots for nulling all attacks” and you null the attack but use knight’s proclamation why would it all of a sudden not punish you for trying to cheese a boss?

Anyways Heismay royal thief with Knight skills and dodger’s ring is helpful. You might be able to cheese a lot, but not everything, otherwise the game will be much easier than it already is. There are times where you can even toss people into back line or front line and bait “same line multi target attacks” , but considering how angered you are by a simple “just think about it” a lot of those things probably never came to mind. Tragic

[Unforgiven]

Publicado originalmente por 96,360 HOUR GOON SESH:

Publicado originalmente por shelledfade:

In what way is the knight not useless when their taunt ability does not work against enemy AoE attacks? It does the lowest amount of damage that I've seen and its abilities are basically useless.

No idea what you're talking about as you didn't state why the knight is useful or good, you basically just said that we need to "thonk" about it. What are you even saying?

Because thats how the utility has worked in every other game like Lancer and Paladin in Etrian Odyssey. Why would a multi target spell suddenly not be a multi target spell?

If the skill is programmed “use party wide 1 shots for nulling all attacks” and you null the attack but use knight’s proclamation why would it all of a sudden not punish you for trying to cheese a boss?

Anyways Heismay royal thief with Knight skills and dodger’s ring is helpful. You might be able to cheese a lot, but not everything, otherwise the game will be much easier than it already is. There are times where you can even toss people into back line or front line and bait “same line multi target attacks” , but considering how angered you are by a simple “just think about it” a lot of those things probably never came to mind. Tragic

The difference here is that bosses use aoe 99% of the time, very rarely some single target skill, the last 3 bosses don't even use any single target at all.
Also i don't know a single boss except 1 of the dragons who does a same line aoe

[DivineLion]

stopping at the 2nd dungeon? lmao. its beter to let people play how they want. i prefer variety

[Comatose Dolphin]

Publicado originalmente por Unforgiven:

Publicado originalmente por 96,360 HOUR GOON SESH:

Because thats how the utility has worked in every other game like Lancer and Paladin in Etrian Odyssey. Why would a multi target spell suddenly not be a multi target spell?

If the skill is programmed “use party wide 1 shots for nulling all attacks” and you null the attack but use knight’s proclamation why would it all of a sudden not punish you for trying to cheese a boss?

Anyways Heismay royal thief with Knight skills and dodger’s ring is helpful. You might be able to cheese a lot, but not everything, otherwise the game will be much easier than it already is. There are times where you can even toss people into back line or front line and bait “same line multi target attacks” , but considering how angered you are by a simple “just think about it” a lot of those things probably never came to mind. Tragic

The difference here is that bosses use aoe 99% of the time, very rarely some single target skill, the last 3 bosses don't even use any single target at all.
Also i don't know a single boss except 1 of the dragons who does a same line aoe

Which yeah once again, many superbosses and final bosses in EO do the same thing. Cant cheese everything. This is sadly one instance. The dragons do slash attacks though, so first turn would probably spamming sukukaja into knights proclamation, even if the AOEs hits when they swap to slashes they miss it.

When compared to EO though the dragon’s are much more forgiving here, if you attempt to cheese in EO i think some games they just straight up 1 shot the party for cheesing the fight or maxxing certain skills they will do it as well. That in itself is a design flaw i agree because why even give null skills to begin with. But to say its useless, id say its arguable. Youd probably see more utility in low level runs, but ultimately when youre 10-20 levels ahead and 1 shot everything it doesnt matter. Meanwhile Urchild exists in EO2 which at any time will just wipe the party when it feels like it

[Kandidaten]

Publicado originalmente por shelledfade:

Publicado originalmente por 96,360 HOUR GOON SESH:

The knight isnt that useless, knight has it’s place as knight’s proclamation heismay dodger’s charm strats or the royal archetype. The value in some of this skills are heavily reliant on people’s ability to thonk about it. Though yeah of course it doesnt work on AOEs but with the strat i suggested if they ever do a slash attack lil bro will dodge it on the spot.

In what way is the knight not useless when their taunt ability does not work against enemy AoE attacks? It does the lowest amount of damage that I've seen and its abilities are basically useless.

No idea what you're talking about as you didn't state why the knight is useful or good, you basically just said that we need to "thonk" about it. What are you even saying?

All that it has going for it is a line-based heal which is inferior over a healers heal because healer heal doesn't require you to be in a front position or a back position. When outside of combat you can switch to it to use its roaming-heal function which is about the only thing I've seen this class be useful for, other than that from what I've seen in 44 hours it is completely useless.

(Hard difficulty experience)

Non-meta playthrough Knight taunt is invaluable. I didn't read ♥♥♥♥, nor did I want to play Merchant at all after I realised how broken it is. Once I had Merchant unlocked I tried it a few dungeon crawls and I ended up with more money than I spent the rest of the game, bar buying some unnecessary consumables for the end of the game.

Didn't like that at all, I liked having to think. Merchant (and probably Tycoon by extension, especially with better Abacus) is strong as ♥♥♥♥, not everyone will play them.
It's not a competitive game, so it is fine that stuff is broken. Just like in the Persona games. I think I did well coming up with a strategy of my own to three round the final fight on Hard. It included Warlord and Trickster. And he dealt about 200 damage to everyone in my team while I destroyed him.

EDIT: Lmao, due to how the game works either everyone is in front or everyone is in the back, from my experience. So Knight Heal is insane.

Healer is useless because it scales off of weapon damage, and mid-game there are no high atk weapons for healer that also boost damage.

EDIT2: The only fight I couldn't properly figure out was the dragon fight that set your max HP to 300. It felt a bit too RNG, and the final fight in that quest line was a joke in comparison.

[Comatose Dolphin]

Publicado originalmente por Kandidaten:

Publicado originalmente por shelledfade:

In what way is the knight not useless when their taunt ability does not work against enemy AoE attacks? It does the lowest amount of damage that I've seen and its abilities are basically useless.

No idea what you're talking about as you didn't state why the knight is useful or good, you basically just said that we need to "thonk" about it. What are you even saying?

All that it has going for it is a line-based heal which is inferior over a healers heal because healer heal doesn't require you to be in a front position or a back position. When outside of combat you can switch to it to use its roaming-heal function which is about the only thing I've seen this class be useful for, other than that from what I've seen in 44 hours it is completely useless.

Non-meta playthrough Knight taunt is invaluable. I didn't read ♥♥♥♥, nor did I want to play Merchant at all after I realised how broken it is. Once I had Merchant unlocked I tried it a few dungeon crawls and I ended up with more money than I spent the rest of the game, bar buying some unnecessary consumables for the end of the game.

Didn't like that at all, I liked having to think. Merchant (and probably Tycoon by extension, especially with better Abacus) is strong as ♥♥♥♥, not everyone will play them.
It's not a competitive game, I think I did well coming up with a strategy of my own to three round the final fight on Hard. It included Warlord and Trickster. And he dealt about 200 damage to everyone in my team while I destroyed him.

EDIT: Lmao, due to how the game works either everyone is in front or everyone is in the back, from my experience. So Knight Heal is insane.

Healer is useless because it scales off of weapon damage, and mid-game there are no high atk weapons for healer that also boost damage.

Honestly healer probably is negligible since you can use the large heal passives per turn or the stronger Spirit dusts. Additionally youre probably intended to use the 1.4x heal passive to buff the heals. I am curious on increased strike damage 4x martial artist strats with large heal passives to hopefully sustain like crazy. Then just go absolutely full burst. Or multi hit builds.

[Kandidaten]

Honestly healer probably is negligible since you can use the large heal passives per turn or the stronger Spirit dusts. Additionally youre probably intended to use the 1.4x heal passive to buff the heals. I am curious on increased strike damage 4x martial artist strats with large heal passives to hopefully sustain like crazy. Then just go absolutely full burst. Or multi hit builds.

I honestly think the game balance would be better if healing was based on MAG.
Was absolutely no reason to have a healer archetype in the party ever, nor use any of the healing skills or inherents.

Knight had the most efficient heal through the entire game. And all you needed was to have all your guys on the same line, which you basically should anyway. If you're playing physical, double down on physical and be frontliners. If you're mages, double down and stay at the back.

[DrkCntry]

320+ replies, did the OP ever come back to admit it's not a balancing issue but one of complexity?

Nice to see that people found that because there's a meta that it doesn't mean that the game's balance is the problem.

[Comatose Dolphin]

Publicado originalmente por Kandidaten:

Honestly healer probably is negligible since you can use the large heal passives per turn or the stronger Spirit dusts. Additionally youre probably intended to use the 1.4x heal passive to buff the heals. I am curious on increased strike damage 4x martial artist strats with large heal passives to hopefully sustain like crazy. Then just go absolutely full burst. Or multi hit builds.

I honestly think the game balance would be better if healing was based on MAG.
Was absolutely no reason to have a healer archetype in the party ever, nor use any of the healing skills or inherents.

Knight had the most efficient heal through the entire game. And all you needed was to have all your guys on the same line, which you basically should anyway. If you're playing physical, double down on physical and be frontliners. If you're mages, double down and stay at the back.

Nah i am gonna finish my Regicide STR run and then try the 99 luck and AGIL meme strat

[Mayo]

Publicado originalmente por Unforgiven:

The difference here is that bosses use aoe 99% of the time, very rarely some single target skill, the last 3 bosses don't even use any single target at all.

Boggles the mind that people can be so confidently wrong. Boss got 7 moves off. 4 of the 7 moves are targeted attacks. And then Phase 1 is Hamadyne, Mudodyne and Debilitate spam.

https://youtu.be/TP4VGpUXWbs?si=07jv-pMTnir2Oxds

Inb4 "it's because I one turned the final boss".

[Unforgiven]

Publicado originalmente por Mayo:

Publicado originalmente por Unforgiven:

The difference here is that bosses use aoe 99% of the time, very rarely some single target skill, the last 3 bosses don't even use any single target at all.

Boggles the mind that people can be so confidently wrong. Boss got 7 moves off. 4 of the 7 moves are targeted attacks. And then Phase 1 is Hamadyne, Mudodyne and Debilitate spam.

https://youtu.be/TP4VGpUXWbs?si=07jv-pMTnir2Oxds

Inb4 "it's because I one turned the final boss".

Ye 1 phase of 1 boss, amazing

[Mayo]

Publicado originalmente por Unforgiven:

Ye 1 phase of 1 boss, amazing

Ah, so we're moving the goalposts again. Let's do four in a row then.

"They're not playing Hard because my Tycoon can't do more than 15k"

"Tycoon can't do more than 40k"

"Last 3 bosses don't use single target attacks"

"Only 1 phase of the Last Boss uses single target attacks."

https://youtu.be/jLN8nV4u-U0?si=0bFAKgELmQUpmrov

What's next?