The Balancing in this game is Atrocious.

[Proudly Toxic]

I see people complaining about the modern themes in this game. I'm going to be galaxy brained and instead actually complain about the gameplay.

I expected this to be a game where I would use the job system to tailor a well balanced team that could handle any situation thrown at it by being able to hit a variety of weaknesses, that I'd adjust further if I found that there was a pattern to enemy types in a specific area.

Instead the game has abilities that give you bonus damage and crit chance if you have duplicates of the same archetype in your party, and gives you access to a Phys Almighty skill with 35% crit chance before the first real dungeon.

Phys Almighty will benefit from Heat Up and from Discipline, since its a Physical Skill, despite doing Almighty damage. Because its Almighty, it will bypass phys repel, phys resist, phys null, and even phys absorb.

Because you can get its crit chance to 55% with 4 people going merchant, it is more effective than trying to hit weaknesses since you'll almost always crit and do more damage thanks to the 40% damage boost from Heat Up.

It costs money, but Merchant on the protag is a money printer anytime you kill lower level enemies in the overworld. So if you ever are running low on money, you can just go back to Akademia in whatever dungeon you are to force respawn all spawns in your current level to go whack a moling for cash.

I just did the second story dungeon, I'm thinking of stopping here, since I now also have access to sukunda, tarunda and rakunda as consumable items. The story boss was unable to get any of my party members below half HP, and if it wasn't for the fact he has a phase hp gate that stops you from killing him, I would've skipped his entire second phase with this strategy.

Do yourself a favor and skip this game if you haven't bought it yet. Who at atlus thought it was a good idea to give Phys Almighty to your character WITH NO MP COST this early in the game?

Phys Almighty has been Meta in every atlus RPG it has been available in.

[AH-1 Cobra]

Meanwhile, other places on the internet are saying Prince is the strongest archtype, but it's most definitely tycoon. Capitalism wins again. . Embrace it and pwn like you're the biggest robber-baron from the early 20th century.

[Klinestife]

frankly, the strat isn't good in the late game (the last month, after you unlock royals), which is where a vast majority of the game's challenge is. i do agree that it is way too strong for way too large a portion of the game and that's its own problem, but i never found these games difficult before the optional bosses anyways.

some context: bosses in the late game tend to have at least 5 turns to act with. when they get low, they will shout and give themselves at least 3 turns. if they get a full turn where they aren't debuffed or if you don't have defenses at the ready, you'll be lucky if you don't lose immediately.

just did a run at the first phase of the final boss on hard mode with the most late game version of this tycoon comp that i had on hand. everybody is a level 20 tycoon with:

heat up
discipline
front boost
short range boost

everybody is in the front row. the MC has the abacus that triples his damage and cost as well as the accessory that doubles your crit damage, everybody else has the best abacus i have on hand without specifically going out of my way to steal grind. i used strohl, hulkenberg, and the last party member which is also phys focused.

the damage i did was: 5.7k*2 with the main character, 1k*2 with strohl, 1k*2 with 4th character, 800*2 with hulkenberg. all crits. so all in all, about 17k damage. this is about a third of the boss's health.

here's the damage i do with my usual build with the MC's royal archetype with almighty boost, arcane unity, heat up, and attack lore. everybody else also has front boost buffing him. everybody has the accessory that reduces synthesis turn cost.

after a turn of buffing and debuffing, he hits for 12.5k almighty, no crit. nobody else is attacking turn one. after the boss does his stuff and cleanses all the buffs/debuffs, he's hitting consistently for 8k.

so, the four merchants do much more damage. but here's what i'm giving up in exchange:

-3 atk, -3 def, -1 agi on the enemy
+2 atk and def (+3 attack on MC), +1 evade on the whole team (+3 evade on evader)
resist all on MC
teamwide physical charge
teamwide invulnerability for one hit
instantly ending the enemy's round on an evade from my evader
the boss using turns to cleanse his debuffs or my buffs.

the tycoon team had to scramble to revive and heal after the first turn, assuming i didn't just die. the usual team i ran had three members take 100 damage and they could go for another full round of buff/debuffing.

the tycoon team has a problem with surviving, and also has really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ synthesis options. it's also super reliant on getting extra turns from crits, so any turn you use buffing or debuffing is another turn the damage gap shrinks. and you still don't have a reliable way to deal with bosses when they give themselves 8 turns for fun.

of course, you could always just sublime spoonful spam, but any comp can do that and win so i don't really think it counts.

[Comatose Dolphin]

Originally posted by Klinestife:

-

don't do 4 tycoons, if you're full strength and are relying solely the slot machine its a weak almighty phys. Swap to the Heavy one by having at least 1 Zerker. I went Zerker support and null most things with evasion tycoon Heismay. In some megaten games, Luck ends up affecting the proc of evasion, so agility and luck makes heismay next to impossible to hit lol. Then Bas and MC as full damage tycoons.

18k damage is what i did with the MC alone, and then with another PT member did 6-8k so in total about 26k per turn, this doesnt include the ultimate food buff which can prolong that damage further.

[2Fresh]

lol some of you guys are unhinged with your logic. Atlus games have always attracted meta-gamers who enjoy optimizing and efficiency. OP's criticism is completely valid. Play however you want and enjoy the experience, but you can't fault people for taking notice of the game's system and exploitations (especially at such an early point in the game). If the game rewards duplicate archetypes, you're just naturally incentivized to form a stacked party lineage, this I feel is where the cracks of the game's system starts forming. Monoclassing is so lame, but you can't ignore its effectiveness.

With a vast job system, you're not exactly rewarded for variability in your team's comp either. Sure you could go crazy with a classic setup of a dps, healer, tank, buffer, etc. but with the turn battle system, and like any other SMT game that gives you an additional turn for hitting weaknesses or critting, you're best option is offense. Basically creating as much alpha-strikes as possible from turn 1 to chain the most moves from your party. Outside of rare situations, this strat carries pretty hard and the next tier carries you to endgame easily.

I kinda anticipated Atlus wouldn't go too hard with this game's difficulty, with it being a new name and all and trying to appeal to a wider audience. I enjoy min-maxing, but I agree it should be earned.

[N/A]

Originally posted by Unforgiven:

Originally posted by N/A:

You all are thinking soooo hard about all of this yet still completely missing the point.
I'm dripping in waifus because I have the biggest damage around and don't sit around arguing about who or what has the biggest damage because I am not a loser.

Looking at the reviews you've written you're definetly a loser

Acting like terminally online reddit stalker doesn't make you look good. Cry more about Ninja.

[N/A]

Originally posted by thefollowingcharacters:

Its a single player RPG. You can usually bust them if you really want to. If not, don't use the busted thing. This has existed in RPG's for years.

Nah, if they do that they won't get to ramble on pointlessly about stupid bs that doesn't matter while being pretentious and acting like genius due to their mastery of whatever in a game for teens.

[Unforgiven]

Originally posted by AH-1 Cobra:

Meanwhile, other places on the internet are saying Prince is the strongest archtype, but it's most definitely tycoon. Capitalism wins again. . Embrace it and pwn like you're the biggest robber-baron from the early 20th century.

tycoon and prince are both far from the strongest in the game lmao

Clicking some idiots profile 1 time after he's ♥♥♥♥ talking = Stalking
Grow up idiot.

[Mayo]

Originally posted by Klinestife:

the tycoon team has a problem with surviving, and also has really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ synthesis options. it's also super reliant on getting extra turns from crits, so any turn you use buffing or debuffing is another turn the damage gap shrinks. and you still don't have a reliable way to deal with bosses when they give themselves 8 turns for fun.

That's because you're playing your Tycoon team like a madman. It's like you intentionally set up your Tycoon team to fail despite understanding that buffs and debuffs are important when it comes to your other team.

Don't split your damage around. Use your inherited skill slots and put some actually good defensive skills on Tycoons doing buff and debuff duty, like Shadow Dwellers, Ironclad Bond and Unyielding Blood - Front Boost doesn't seem to stack anyway. Dodger's Ring also exists and is available at every single Magic Store in every city, so it's hardly a rare item and a humble merchant can delete every turn just as good (or even better, because Shadow Dwellers) than a Royal Thief.

This way your main Tycoon hits the Final Boss on Hard with a 40k Crit instead of you having to worry about things like whether a Tycoon team is actually 'super reliant on getting extra turns from crits', whether front boost actually stacks or whether the damage gap will shrink because you have people debuffing and buffing. It's not. It doesn't. It won't.
https://imgur.com/a/avg7EX6

[AH-1 Cobra]

Originally posted by Unforgiven:

tycoon and prince are both far from the strongest in the game lmao

Clicking some idiots profile 1 time after he's ♥♥♥♥ talking = Stalking
Grow up idiot.

All the dragons got 1st turned with a team of tycoons.

[spoonygundam]

I am not very impressed with Golden Soldier. Am I missing something here?

Same offensive setup with both, except swapping Long Range Boost and the crit damage accessory for Arcane Unity and the synth reduction accessory and using an additional crit buff for Golden Soldier:
https://imgur.com/a/8JHPuRo

Gold Rush is hitting for more than 50% more damage against the test enemy, is critting 100% reliably without buffs, and deals full damage from the back row. I guess the AoE makes dungeon battles faster, but it seems much worse for bosses. It would be better before the crit accessory, and would hit harder if Golden Soldier was using the crit accessory, but not enough to make up for using two actions and its unreliable crits.

[AH-1 Cobra]

Originally posted by spoonygundam:

I am not very impressed with Golden Soldier. Am I missing something here?

Same offensive setup with both, except swapping Long Range Boost and the crit damage accessory for Arcane Unity and the synth reduction accessory and using an additional crit buff for Golden Soldier:
https://imgur.com/a/8JHPuRo

Gold Rush is hitting for more than 50% more damage against the test enemy, is critting 100% reliably without buffs, and deals full damage from the back row. I guess the AoE makes dungeon battles faster, but it seems much worse for bosses. It would be better before the crit accessory, and would hit harder if Golden Soldier was using the crit accessory, but not enough to make up for using two actions and its unreliable crits.

Another option is to make Junah a Warlord, and use the Kongming's signal (boosts almighty damage) and spam megidola for trash fights. You might need to finish some stronger mobs off with gold rush. You could always swap a full team of tycoons back in for the boss.

[AH-1 Cobra]

Originally posted by Klinestife:

heat up
discipline
front boost
short range boost

Front Boost does not stack, I tested it. You only need front boost on one character.

Sense of Kinship from Berserker is another +10% attack boost that stacks in effectiveness with multiples of the same archtype.

Revenge Seeker from Destroyer buffs your damage at lower HP. If you really wanted to do absolute maximum possible damage with gold rush, you'd use this passive and be a 1hp. Maybe the NG+ boss on hard mode justifies doing this?

[AH-1 Cobra]

Here's how I did Tycoons:

(MC & Basilio) - Both have fortune god's abacus, MC has the gambler's manual.
Diligent Discipline
Heat up
Sense of Kinship
Short Range Boost / Revenge seeker

Heismay (buffer) - has the dodger ring

Third Eye - for evasion
Shadow Dwellers - for evasion
Front Boost
Formation of Vigor

Junah (Debuffer/trash clearer/item stealer) - Prowler's Pipe (for higher steal rate)

Vidyartha - 2 ranks defense debuff
Steal
Magic Boost
Megidola

The turn order is: Heismay - Junah - MC - Basilio. Buff/debuff/attack/attack - same as you'd do in a game like SMTV.

Heismay with evasion passives & gear is practically untouchable, and with the dodger ring, the enemy rips all their turn icons if they use a single aoe. This also covers your ass if you get ambushed by accident in a dungeon (it's annoying).

Passives like Diligent Discipline, Heat up, Sense of Kinship don't need to be stacked on every character to get full benefit. Just having full tycoons in your group is enough to get the full benefit on your 2 attackers.

[Brave Sir Robin]

That said I do think it's a design mistake to encourage same class spam. If anything the synergy bonus should be for having different classes.

[spoonygundam]

Originally posted by Brave Sir Robin:

That said I do think it's a design mistake to encourage same class spam. If anything the synergy bonus should be for having different classes.

I would move something like that to the Royal Archetypes, since it's so easy to set that up that it shouldn't be an early game ability. It already shouldn't be as-is.

But I think it should just not exist at all, personally. Most of the rest of the damage bonuses in the game are relatively conservative, at around 10-20% while also having conditions or being specific to a certain damage type. 40% skill damage + 40% attack across the board with no actual downside is way out of line with everything else even before you get to how absurd the 2x and 3x damage multipliers from gear is.