The Balancing in this game is Atrocious.

[Proudly Toxic]

I see people complaining about the modern themes in this game. I'm going to be galaxy brained and instead actually complain about the gameplay.

I expected this to be a game where I would use the job system to tailor a well balanced team that could handle any situation thrown at it by being able to hit a variety of weaknesses, that I'd adjust further if I found that there was a pattern to enemy types in a specific area.

Instead the game has abilities that give you bonus damage and crit chance if you have duplicates of the same archetype in your party, and gives you access to a Phys Almighty skill with 35% crit chance before the first real dungeon.

Phys Almighty will benefit from Heat Up and from Discipline, since its a Physical Skill, despite doing Almighty damage. Because its Almighty, it will bypass phys repel, phys resist, phys null, and even phys absorb.

Because you can get its crit chance to 55% with 4 people going merchant, it is more effective than trying to hit weaknesses since you'll almost always crit and do more damage thanks to the 40% damage boost from Heat Up.

It costs money, but Merchant on the protag is a money printer anytime you kill lower level enemies in the overworld. So if you ever are running low on money, you can just go back to Akademia in whatever dungeon you are to force respawn all spawns in your current level to go whack a moling for cash.

I just did the second story dungeon, I'm thinking of stopping here, since I now also have access to sukunda, tarunda and rakunda as consumable items. The story boss was unable to get any of my party members below half HP, and if it wasn't for the fact he has a phase hp gate that stops you from killing him, I would've skipped his entire second phase with this strategy.

Do yourself a favor and skip this game if you haven't bought it yet. Who at atlus thought it was a good idea to give Phys Almighty to your character WITH NO MP COST this early in the game?

Phys Almighty has been Meta in every atlus RPG it has been available in.

[Volcano Princess Enjoyer]

Origineel geplaatst door spoonygundam:

Origineel geplaatst door SQUIRREL JELQING:

Lastly, broken jobs are no stranger to these games the rapid fire ninja in ff5 was busted af and drawing slice ninja strat in EO3 too. infact drawing slice could drop like 100k in a single turn

While true, there's a significant difference between Merchant in this game and busted things in other games.

Just talking FFV, since I'm much more familiar with that than EO because of dozens of 4JF runs.

Probably the most commonly used/known busted FFV things are:

Dual-wield, Spellblade, Rapid-fire: Which requires mastering three different jobs, which is about the limit of what you can master in a single playthrough without a bunch of grinding.

Dualcast, Quick: Which requires mastering the most expensive job in the game, which isn't happening until the end of the game without a bunch of grinding.

Mix: Which is available ~40% into the game, but requires tons of experimentation and note taking if you aren't using a guide, as well as grinding for materials if you want to use it frequently.

Zeninage: Which is available at the same time as Mix, but is far too costly to use as a primary attack.

Additionally, you have to switch around to those different jobs in order to master them, forcing players to mix things up from time to time, and nothing in the game actively encourages running 3-4 of the same job in the party. And that game is over 30 years old.

Merchant comes online much earlier than any of that stuff in FFV and allows you to fully ignore the battle system's core mechanics while working equally well against everything. Without really needing to grind, while staying in the one class line the entire game, and without any significant drawback to using the money attack as your only damage. The worst thing about running the build is needing to buy Rockbeans one at a time in a dialogue box so you can make Critical Buns for boss fights. The the build gets stronger later on with additional passives + Tycoon, but the gameplan doesn't really change.

I am not a Megaten fan and didn't really expect much from this game mechanically, but I can see why it would bug someone who is. I'm not really in love with the game either, but I'm just playing it to kill time until Romancing SaGa 2. I've gotten all I wanted out of it.

Megaten is equally as broken. Freikugel + Focus or Gaea Rage + Focus runs on Nocturne can drop 21k crits with the exception of TDE runs since the final boss there resists absolutely everything. SMT V is even more broken via certain strats that allow you to drop 99k via certain builds or do 40 turns in one go. While Vengeance fixes some, it doesn't fix the fact you can break the game. These broken builds exist in most SMT probably with the except of autoing bosses in SMT 1 and 2. But builds like the glacial blast 90k dmg Jack Frost or multi-hit potential builds are a thing too.

Sure, they might be end game things and not as early as Refantazio but most of these games have a sorta exploit, look no further than ff5 which many speed runs take advantage of Blue Mage simply because it ends up being broken or chemist strats. Which Blue Mage is available incredibly early.

Hes bothered about ReFantazio being broken, but most of the other megaten games are equally as broken and their form of balance at least in V is "give it more press turns" or "null everything except random thing". One of the hardest bosses is Mem Aleph or Masakado in SMT 4's dlc and you have to kill it in 10 turns or die. People deal with it a variety of ways but the 1 shot jack frost ends up being the best. It realistically is just perspective and if anything, the discussion forums of this game just prove the core theme right.

[Volcano Princess Enjoyer]

Origineel geplaatst door Unforgiven:

i made a complete str/luck physical merchant main for regicide to test it and while the dmg is good as you said, even on full str build mage just does more dmg than 4x merchants, i went ahead and tried 4 mages, all with different inherited skills and my main with same archetype dmg boost and it actually hits ridiculous dmg

So i'm thinking it's actually a problem with any same-archetype team since u can just inherit any kind of support skill that u need on the other chars

Now i'm sitting on a mage with 65 str and 99 luck, amazing

Also the tycoon skill doesn't even hit 2,5x more dmg than the weak version, which is kinda weird, my mage heavy skill does 5x the dmg of the weak version lol

Sounds about right, im sure there are more optimal builds to just avoid everything. I only experienced the 4 merch, 1 zerk and 3 tycoons. But with the passive thats honestly what breaks it the most. I reckon anything with a proper build with Extreme/Severe attack is overall better.

Which if you wanted a harder game just dont use any food buffs or any skill inheritance i guess. I reckon people who love these games will mod them to make them harder look no further than the cult classic SMT3, people conjure up harder and harder challenges because they enjoy the game that much.

[Proudly Toxic]

Origineel geplaatst door SQUIRREL JELQING:

I reckon people who love these games will mod them to make them harder look no further than the cult classic SMT3, people conjure up harder and harder challenges because they enjoy the game that much.

No mot please stop getting more press turns

[Unforgiven]

Origineel geplaatst door SQUIRREL JELQING:

Origineel geplaatst door Unforgiven:

i made a complete str/luck physical merchant main for regicide to test it and while the dmg is good as you said, even on full str build mage just does more dmg than 4x merchants, i went ahead and tried 4 mages, all with different inherited skills and my main with same archetype dmg boost and it actually hits ridiculous dmg

So i'm thinking it's actually a problem with any same-archetype team since u can just inherit any kind of support skill that u need on the other chars

Now i'm sitting on a mage with 65 str and 99 luck, amazing

Also the tycoon skill doesn't even hit 2,5x more dmg than the weak version, which is kinda weird, my mage heavy skill does 5x the dmg of the weak version lol

Sounds about right, im sure there are more optimal builds to just avoid everything. I only experienced the 4 merch, 1 zerk and 3 tycoons. But with the passive thats honestly what breaks it the most. I reckon anything with a proper build with Extreme/Severe attack is overall better.

Which if you wanted a harder game just dont use any food buffs or any skill inheritance i guess. I reckon people who love these games will mod them to make them harder look no further than the cult classic SMT3, people conjure up harder and harder challenges because they enjoy the game that much.

I think it's dumb the game has food buffs on par with the buffer classes skills to begin with, ive never used them but it makes a whole archetype kinda obsolete

[Proudly Toxic]

Origineel geplaatst door Unforgiven:

Origineel geplaatst door SQUIRREL JELQING:

Sounds about right, im sure there are more optimal builds to just avoid everything. I only experienced the 4 merch, 1 zerk and 3 tycoons. But with the passive thats honestly what breaks it the most. I reckon anything with a proper build with Extreme/Severe attack is overall better.

Which if you wanted a harder game just dont use any food buffs or any skill inheritance i guess. I reckon people who love these games will mod them to make them harder look no further than the cult classic SMT3, people conjure up harder and harder challenges because they enjoy the game that much.

I think it's dumb the game has food buffs on par with the buffer classes skills to begin with, ive never used them but it makes a whole archetype kinda obsolete

The same problem exists with Faker. It becomes available at the same time as you can get all the debuff skills in item format either from shops or as drops.

Maybe faker has some synthesis skill that's really good, but I have not bothered to play further.

[Unforgiven]

Origineel geplaatst door Proudly Toxic:

Origineel geplaatst door Unforgiven:

I think it's dumb the game has food buffs on par with the buffer classes skills to begin with, ive never used them but it makes a whole archetype kinda obsolete

The same problem exists with Faker. It becomes available at the same time as you can get all the debuff skills in item format either from shops or as drops.

Maybe faker has some synthesis skill that's really good, but I have not bothered to play further.

I tried the trickster extreme aoe physical almighty skill but for whatever reason it does less dmg than tycoons heavy almighty skill

the same happens on soul hacker, the extreme skill does way less than devil summoners tyrant which is only severe

[Volcano Princess Enjoyer]

Origineel geplaatst door Unforgiven:

Origineel geplaatst door SQUIRREL JELQING:

Sounds about right, im sure there are more optimal builds to just avoid everything. I only experienced the 4 merch, 1 zerk and 3 tycoons. But with the passive thats honestly what breaks it the most. I reckon anything with a proper build with Extreme/Severe attack is overall better.

Which if you wanted a harder game just dont use any food buffs or any skill inheritance i guess. I reckon people who love these games will mod them to make them harder look no further than the cult classic SMT3, people conjure up harder and harder challenges because they enjoy the game that much.

I think it's dumb the game has food buffs on par with the buffer classes skills to begin with, ive never used them but it makes a whole archetype kinda obsolete

I did the food content, it definitely is OP its the only way (i think) to get the "Luster Candy" buff from what it appears like for much cheaper if anything. Which is all buffs on all party members and i do not mind entirely because you actively have to go out of your way to get some things.

The Ultimate Food especially requires specific things and that one is incredibly busted IMO it gives 4 turn icons and you can just keep using it if you make a lot of it and with Rank 6 or 7 Maria you can just make so much of it and just never stop turns. In other words you are Mot spamming Dragon's Eye.

[N/A]

You all are thinking soooo hard about all of this yet still completely missing the point.
I'm dripping in waifus because I have the biggest damage around and don't sit around arguing about who or what has the biggest damage because I am not a loser.

[Unforgiven]

Origineel geplaatst door N/A:

You all are thinking soooo hard about all of this yet still completely missing the point.
I'm dripping in waifus because I have the biggest damage around and don't sit around arguing about who or what has the biggest damage because I am not a loser.

Looking at the reviews you've written you're definetly a loser

[spoonygundam]

Origineel geplaatst door Unforgiven:

Origineel geplaatst door SQUIRREL JELQING:

Sounds about right, im sure there are more optimal builds to just avoid everything. I only experienced the 4 merch, 1 zerk and 3 tycoons. But with the passive thats honestly what breaks it the most. I reckon anything with a proper build with Extreme/Severe attack is overall better.

Which if you wanted a harder game just dont use any food buffs or any skill inheritance i guess. I reckon people who love these games will mod them to make them harder look no further than the cult classic SMT3, people conjure up harder and harder challenges because they enjoy the game that much.

I think it's dumb the game has food buffs on par with the buffer classes skills to begin with, ive never used them but it makes a whole archetype kinda obsolete

Yeah, this is one of the big reasons I wasn't really feeling the whole "actual party" argument earlier.

You aren't really missing out on utility because of all the powerful, easily available items, and the boost you get from all those passives easily outweigh the downside of every character sharing weaknesses. There are plenty of ways to work around that, for whichever Archetype you build around.

It's like Atlus saw this (Atlus-sponsored) skit and thought, "Wait, what if it was a good idea to play like that?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS8sWhrTnZo

[Unforgiven]

After some changes to build, trickster is actually busted, it crits 14k aoe almighty dmg on regicide with 0 mana cost lol (costs 2 turns tho)

[thefollowingcharacters]

Its a single player RPG. You can usually bust them if you really want to. If not, don't use the busted thing. This has existed in RPG's for years.

[Volcano Princess Enjoyer]

Origineel geplaatst door spoonygundam:

Origineel geplaatst door Unforgiven:

I think it's dumb the game has food buffs on par with the buffer classes skills to begin with, ive never used them but it makes a whole archetype kinda obsolete

Yeah, this is one of the big reasons I wasn't really feeling the whole "actual party" argument earlier.

You aren't really missing out on utility because of all the powerful, easily available items, and the boost you get from all those passives easily outweigh the downside of every character sharing weaknesses. There are plenty of ways to work around that, for whichever Archetype you build around.

It's like Atlus saw this (Atlus-sponsored) skit and thought, "Wait, what if it was a good idea to play like that?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS8sWhrTnZo

Its kinda hilarious that what its sponsoring is exactly the problem with that franchise. It isn't "atlus felt inspired by a skit" thats literally how Etrian Odyssey is, Survivalist and Paladin strats block and 1 shot everything in the old EO1, Hexers at 1 hp do 4k damage per turn in EO2, A party with a ninja and lancer and spamming drawing slice clears 200k hp bosses and all the super bosses. Healers in EOU2 drop 14k damage if you stack pure healers.

Once again many atlus games have their own strats, metas, and broken builds along with that and many class/job based JRPGs have exploits and bugs, i think you mentioned the Spell blade lv 6+ ninja rapid fire is incredibly broken in ff5 and you can pretty much stunlock shinryu to do like 20k damage. If you just want a long and hard JRPG just play like End of Eternity/Resonance of Fate or Path of the Abyss

[Giganx]

So a large scale RPG has broken meta builds that completely trivialize the game?

I've only ever seen that happen in every single other RPG on the planet. I guess you're new to this genre, so welcome.

[spoonygundam]

Okay, so there's an accessory that doubles crit damage. That seems fair.

Just hit a boss for 14k without Charge or synth skills.

Slightly disappointed that I didn't find that before three dragons and Elegy, since that would have pushed those from two turn kills to a one turn kill.