The Balancing in this game is Atrocious.

[Proudly Toxic]

I see people complaining about the modern themes in this game. I'm going to be galaxy brained and instead actually complain about the gameplay.

I expected this to be a game where I would use the job system to tailor a well balanced team that could handle any situation thrown at it by being able to hit a variety of weaknesses, that I'd adjust further if I found that there was a pattern to enemy types in a specific area.

Instead the game has abilities that give you bonus damage and crit chance if you have duplicates of the same archetype in your party, and gives you access to a Phys Almighty skill with 35% crit chance before the first real dungeon.

Phys Almighty will benefit from Heat Up and from Discipline, since its a Physical Skill, despite doing Almighty damage. Because its Almighty, it will bypass phys repel, phys resist, phys null, and even phys absorb.

Because you can get its crit chance to 55% with 4 people going merchant, it is more effective than trying to hit weaknesses since you'll almost always crit and do more damage thanks to the 40% damage boost from Heat Up.

It costs money, but Merchant on the protag is a money printer anytime you kill lower level enemies in the overworld. So if you ever are running low on money, you can just go back to Akademia in whatever dungeon you are to force respawn all spawns in your current level to go whack a moling for cash.

I just did the second story dungeon, I'm thinking of stopping here, since I now also have access to sukunda, tarunda and rakunda as consumable items. The story boss was unable to get any of my party members below half HP, and if it wasn't for the fact he has a phase hp gate that stops you from killing him, I would've skipped his entire second phase with this strategy.

Do yourself a favor and skip this game if you haven't bought it yet. Who at atlus thought it was a good idea to give Phys Almighty to your character WITH NO MP COST this early in the game?

Phys Almighty has been Meta in every atlus RPG it has been available in.

[Yuki]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Proudly Toxic:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Yuki:

I guess we should delete the game too,it has storyteller difficulty as an option, thus its easy, or you know here's the wild idea, don't use and abuse min maxing builds then come cry here how game is easy, if you want a challenge,then make your own rules.

No, I'm going to look at the game say its a "rpg" and expect the mechanics to be better thought out instead of being beatable with just a team of one of the first archetypes you can unlock the moment the game opens up.

All I'm asking is for better power pacing. I don't mind being broken, but let me earn it. This doesn't feel like I earned anything, only that there was developer oversight.

Ah yes,you must be the guy who played p5r with izanagi no okami from lv 1,then cried how game is easy, i'd imagine,it sounds like same narrative as this.

[Comatose Dolphin]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Proudly Toxic:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Yuki:

I guess we should delete the game too,it has storyteller difficulty as an option, thus its easy, or you know here's the wild idea, don't use and abuse min maxing builds then come cry here how game is easy, if you want a challenge,then make your own rules.

No, I'm going to look at the game say its a "rpg" and expect the mechanics to be better thought out instead of being beatable with just a team of one of the first archetypes you can unlock the moment the game opens up.

All I'm asking is for better power pacing. I don't mind being broken, but let me earn it. This doesn't feel like I earned anything, only that there was developer oversight.

Damn thats crazy. Anyways, Play Shin Megami Tensei Strange Journey.

[Proudly Toxic]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย SQUIRREL JELQING:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Proudly Toxic:

No, I'm going to look at the game say its a "rpg" and expect the mechanics to be better thought out instead of being beatable with just a team of one of the first archetypes you can unlock the moment the game opens up.

All I'm asking is for better power pacing. I don't mind being broken, but let me earn it. This doesn't feel like I earned anything, only that there was developer oversight.

Damn thats crazy. Anyways, Play Shin Megami Tensei Strange Journey.

I've gotten all endings on it and Redux, I need something new, that's why I got this.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Yuki:

Ah yes,you must be the guy who played p5r with izanagi no okami from lv 1,then cried how game is easy, i'd imagine,it sounds like same narrative as this.

You're comparing a Pay 2 Win DLC persona with what is the equivalent of getting Pyro Jack in the first dungeon of P5R and finding out it can beat the entire game with very little further adjustment.

If you're going to try to defend the million dollar company, at least compare apples to apples instead of being so obviously intellectually dishonest.

Here's your (You).

[Yuki]

If you want to play game the right way, don't abuse the true damage meta then come cry here how nothing can be reflected,its called true damage for a reason. If you want to have your deep rpg experience,learn the game and enemies,and use appropriate tactics and elements to beat them,but guess what,you wont or cant,instead you decided to sink to min maxing true dmg build to 1 tap whole game,then come make drama.
Just cause there is a well in front of you,doesnt mean you have to jump in it.

[Proudly Toxic]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Yuki:

If you want to play game the right way, don't abuse the true damage meta then come cry here how nothing can be reflected,its called true damage for a reason. If you want to have your deep rpg experience,learn the game and enemies,and use appropriate tactics and elements to beat them,but guess what,you wont or cant,instead you decided to sink to min maxing true dmg build to 1 tap whole game,then come make drama.
Just cause there is a well in front of you,doesnt mean you have to jump in it.

I'm sorry, I hear you telling me that I shouldn't abuse non-dlc mechanics the developers made available too early.

Do you know how early you can get a true damage setup going on Persona 5 R reliably and without resorting to DLC? At least level 30.

Again, I don't mind being broken if I earn it.

I didn't earn it in this game because its available from the start of the game.

>Just cause there's a well in front of you, doesn't mean you have to jump in it

So lets talk about skill expression.

In atlus games making a character build has always been a core part of the game. Building personas, building demons, building your protagonist. That's part of the experience, and part of the fun.

I'm telling you that this game has -utterly failed- at that, because I can solve the game from the very beggining, as showcased by spoonygundam on this thread.

The problem isn't that the true damage meta exists, its that its so easily accessible.

True damage meta also exists in P5R, but getting Almighty Boosts requires either multiplayer, or unlocking Lucifer, which is very, very, very, very lategame.

[Yuki]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Proudly Toxic:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Yuki:

If you want to play game the right way, don't abuse the true damage meta then come cry here how nothing can be reflected,its called true damage for a reason. If you want to have your deep rpg experience,learn the game and enemies,and use appropriate tactics and elements to beat them,but guess what,you wont or cant,instead you decided to sink to min maxing true dmg build to 1 tap whole game,then come make drama.
Just cause there is a well in front of you,doesnt mean you have to jump in it.

I'm sorry, I hear you telling me that I shouldn't abuse non-dlc mechanics the developers made available too early.

Do you know how early you can get a true damage setup going on Persona 5 R reliably and without resorting to DLC? At least level 30.

Again, I don't mind being broken if I earn it.

I didn't earn it in this game because its available from the start of the game.

>Just cause there's a well in front of you, doesn't mean you have to jump in it

So lets talk about skill expression.

In atlus games making a character build has always been a core part of the game. Building personas, building demons, building your protagonist. That's part of the experience, and part of the fun.

I'm telling you that this game has -utterly failed- at that, because I can solve the game from the very beggining, as showcased by spoonygundam on this thread.

The problem isn't that the true damage meta exists, its that its so easily accessible.

True damage meta also exists in P5R, but getting Almighty Boosts requires either multiplayer, or unlocking Lucifer, which is very, very, very, very lategame.

Again,just cause you have option to make monotone team of merchants,doesnt meant you have to. I finished whole game and I never even used that archtype,and guess what,pacing was just right for all content, nothing felt too hard to too easy,using normal team formations with different roles. But try being a game dev and please everyone. Like they can balance whole game around people who use true dmg monotone teams with min maxed talents. This is just non topic tbh, idk why you are trying to get rise out of people, play stupid games,win stupid prizes.

[Proudly Toxic]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Yuki:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Proudly Toxic:

I'm sorry, I hear you telling me that I shouldn't abuse non-dlc mechanics the developers made available too early.

Do you know how early you can get a true damage setup going on Persona 5 R reliably and without resorting to DLC? At least level 30.

Again, I don't mind being broken if I earn it.

I didn't earn it in this game because its available from the start of the game.

>Just cause there's a well in front of you, doesn't mean you have to jump in it

So lets talk about skill expression.

In atlus games making a character build has always been a core part of the game. Building personas, building demons, building your protagonist. That's part of the experience, and part of the fun.

I'm telling you that this game has -utterly failed- at that, because I can solve the game from the very beggining, as showcased by spoonygundam on this thread.

The problem isn't that the true damage meta exists, its that its so easily accessible.

True damage meta also exists in P5R, but getting Almighty Boosts requires either multiplayer, or unlocking Lucifer, which is very, very, very, very lategame.

Again,just cause you have option to make monotone team of merchants,doesnt meant you have to. I finished whole game and I never even used that archtype,and guess what,pacing was just right for all content, nothing felt too hard to too easy,using normal team formations with different roles. But try being a game dev and please everyone. Like they can balance whole game around people who use true dmg monotone teams with min maxed talents. This is just non topic tbh, idk why you are trying to get rise out of people, play stupid games,win stupid prizes.

I'm not trying to get a rise out of people. You liked that the mechanics are as deep as a puddle.

That's cool.

I don't, and I'm warning other atlus fans that they are, because I saw no one else anywhere say anything about this, or I wouldn't have wasted 70 dollars on it.

You don't think this feedback is valuable to you. You are not the target of this thread.

[Unforgiven]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย spoonygundam:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Unforgiven:

It's stat gated, you can have her rank 7 by the 2nd town on ng+ already because your stats are maxed and you will have her rank 8 while ure in 3rd town

It's locked behind getting the MC's exclusive Archetype. Rank 8 for several of the NPC followers was unavailable for weeks before then (I got Brigitta Rank 7 in mid August), then suddenly became available the day after with no stat changes. If that transfers over to NG+, that's why you can unlock the rank early. Courage 4 is required for Rank 7, but there is no stat check for Rank 8. The game is explicit about stat requirements when there is one.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Unforgiven:

Literally any weakness skill can hit for that much on some random story boss with proper inherited skills, it only hits this hard because the guy has 4x merchant with heat up which is 40% bonus dmg, you can have a single mage with +25% magic dmg while having an actual team hit for way more than that on a weakness hit

That boss doesn't have a weakness. You have to set it up, which is more prep turns for a one-time hit. The damage multiplier is the same on crit or weakness hit anyway. Mage can get +25% magic skill damage, but that requires two inheritance slots to get just over half the bonus Merchant is getting with one (EDIT: Mage can not get +25% magic skill damage at that point. Gallica Rank 8 doesn't happen until after that fight, so they're stuck at +10% unless you run multiple mages). I was also getting +40% attack from Sense of Kinship and 3x damage from my abacus, which are not things a mage can replicate in an "actual team".

Again, what do you think an actual team is? I have no problems buffing/debuffing/healing, and incoming damage is insignificant from the back row without affecting my outgoing damage. Multiple bosses have died on the first turn. What is the benefit of an "actual team"?

Looking at videos of other people doing that fight with "actual teams", their damage dealers are hitting for ~600-1000 after several full turns of setup. What are those people missing that will let them deal eight times that damage as you claimed?

I'm sure there are other setups that can deal more damage in a single hit once the endgame stuff comes online, but that isn't the point. 4x Merchant does more than enough damage for the threats that are present in the game, converts all your full turn icons into half icons without needing to worry about weaknesses, while bypassing all resistances and repels so it works against every enemy and boss with no modification. With a build that changes very little from the beginning of the game.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Proudly Toxic:

Yes, did you see the post answer where someone used that move to hit a story boss for 40% hp with 1 crit without buffs and debuffs?

I did have buffs. Gloves that automatically give one level of the strength buff, and Strohl cast the Commander's +2 strength buff the prior action to max it out.

I could have dealt far more damage with the food that gives the entire party the Charge effect (2.5x damage for one hit), but one of the ingredients is only obtainable in limited quantities, so it didn't seem worth it. IMO the distinction between the boss dying in 3-4 actions vs 7 actions is irrelevant. He dies the first turn either way.

In ng+ i have her at 8 on the island, so it's not tied to anything but your stat, i'm not even close to the unique type yet

All i'm saying is the dmg doesn't break the game any more than mages do, i am literally hitting 20k meteor or skyfall on turn 1 with elemental master and after that 8k because no hyper, my summoner then does another 12k because of hyper (same as charge)
And yes, ANY boss has a weakness and it's called masked dancer. Which is why WEAKNESS is king in this game.
You get 25% from 2 slots, 1 slot for synthesis dmg and 1 slot for mp regen, you have infinite mp and hit 20k on EVERY boss in the game while still having an actual party setup and not 4 stupid merchants

[Proudly Toxic]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Unforgiven:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย spoonygundam:

It's locked behind getting the MC's exclusive Archetype. Rank 8 for several of the NPC followers was unavailable for weeks before then (I got Brigitta Rank 7 in mid August), then suddenly became available the day after with no stat changes. If that transfers over to NG+, that's why you can unlock the rank early. Courage 4 is required for Rank 7, but there is no stat check for Rank 8. The game is explicit about stat requirements when there is one.


That boss doesn't have a weakness. You have to set it up, which is more prep turns for a one-time hit. The damage multiplier is the same on crit or weakness hit anyway. Mage can get +25% magic skill damage, but that requires two inheritance slots to get just over half the bonus Merchant is getting with one (EDIT: Mage can not get +25% magic skill damage at that point. Gallica Rank 8 doesn't happen until after that fight, so they're stuck at +10% unless you run multiple mages). I was also getting +40% attack from Sense of Kinship and 3x damage from my abacus, which are not things a mage can replicate in an "actual team".

Again, what do you think an actual team is? I have no problems buffing/debuffing/healing, and incoming damage is insignificant from the back row without affecting my outgoing damage. Multiple bosses have died on the first turn. What is the benefit of an "actual team"?

Looking at videos of other people doing that fight with "actual teams", their damage dealers are hitting for ~600-1000 after several full turns of setup. What are those people missing that will let them deal eight times that damage as you claimed?

I'm sure there are other setups that can deal more damage in a single hit once the endgame stuff comes online, but that isn't the point. 4x Merchant does more than enough damage for the threats that are present in the game, converts all your full turn icons into half icons without needing to worry about weaknesses, while bypassing all resistances and repels so it works against every enemy and boss with no modification. With a build that changes very little from the beginning of the game.


I did have buffs. Gloves that automatically give one level of the strength buff, and Strohl cast the Commander's +2 strength buff the prior action to max it out.

I could have dealt far more damage with the food that gives the entire party the Charge effect (2.5x damage for one hit), but one of the ingredients is only obtainable in limited quantities, so it didn't seem worth it. IMO the distinction between the boss dying in 3-4 actions vs 7 actions is irrelevant. He dies the first turn either way.

In ng+ i have her at 8 on the island, so it's not tied to anything but your stat, i'm not even close to the unique type yet

All i'm saying is the dmg doesn't break the game any more than mages do, i am literally hitting 20k meteor or skyfall on turn 1 with elemental master and after that 8k because no hyper, my summoner then does another 12k because of hyper (same as charge)
And yes, ANY boss has a weakness and it's called masked dancer. Which is why WEAKNESS is king in this game.
You get 25% from 2 slots, 1 slot for synthesis dmg and 1 slot for mp regen, you have infinite mp and hit 20k on EVERY boss in the game while still having an actual party setup and not 4 stupid merchants

You're comparing a move that takes 3 press turns and you're charging, to a move that can be used 4 times in a row, hits for 4k on one character, 1-2k on the others, has high crit chance, and often lets you get 8 hits out. Lets see. . . 8 + 6*1.5 = 15k damage with very little setup.

More if you actually use consumables to give the entire team charge.

The point is, your actually well thought out team, should blow a mono merchant braindead strat out of the water, and it doesn't. When the path of least resistance is this good, this comparable to what you're doing, and is also giving you essentially infinite money and consumables the entire game. . .

Also, consider that this is the starting archetype of the Merchant Family. This is a "weak" damage skill, as so many people were pointing out early in this thread's lifespan.

Tycoon's is Heavy, and also comes with a flat 20% almighty boost.

[Unforgiven]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Proudly Toxic:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Unforgiven:

In ng+ i have her at 8 on the island, so it's not tied to anything but your stat, i'm not even close to the unique type yet

All i'm saying is the dmg doesn't break the game any more than mages do, i am literally hitting 20k meteor or skyfall on turn 1 with elemental master and after that 8k because no hyper, my summoner then does another 12k because of hyper (same as charge)
And yes, ANY boss has a weakness and it's called masked dancer. Which is why WEAKNESS is king in this game.
You get 25% from 2 slots, 1 slot for synthesis dmg and 1 slot for mp regen, you have infinite mp and hit 20k on EVERY boss in the game while still having an actual party setup and not 4 stupid merchants

You're comparing a move that takes 3 press turns and you're charging, to a move that can be used 4 times in a row, hits for 4k on one character, 1-2k on the others, has high crit chance, and often lets you get 8 hits out. Lets see. . . 8 + 6*1.5 = 15k damage with very little setup.

More if you actually use consumables to give the entire team charge.

The point is, your actually well thought out team, should blow a mono merchant braindead strat out of the water, and it doesn't. When the path of least resistance is this good, this comparable to what you're doing, and is also giving you essentially infinite money and consumables the entire game. . .

Also, consider that this is the starting archetype of the Merchant Family. This is a "weak" damage skill, as so many people were pointing out early in this thread's lifespan.

Tycoon's is Heavy, and also comes with a flat 20% almighty boost.

3 press turns? it takes 1 turn with the amulet lmao
I consider hitting 6x your teams dmg with 1 click (you're even using commander buffs to hit that dmg) "blowing out of the water" tbh
With actual buffs i can probably hit up to 30k but i'm not using commander anymore cuz there's no need

[spoonygundam]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย SQUIRREL JELQING:

Lastly, broken jobs are no stranger to these games the rapid fire ninja in ff5 was busted af and drawing slice ninja strat in EO3 too. infact drawing slice could drop like 100k in a single turn

While true, there's a significant difference between Merchant in this game and busted things in other games.

Just talking FFV, since I'm much more familiar with that than EO because of dozens of 4JF runs.

Probably the most commonly used/known busted FFV things are:

Dual-wield, Spellblade, Rapid-fire: Which requires mastering three different jobs, which is about the limit of what you can master in a single playthrough without a bunch of grinding.

Dualcast, Quick: Which requires mastering the most expensive job in the game, which isn't happening until the end of the game without a bunch of grinding.

Mix: Which is available ~40% into the game, but requires tons of experimentation and note taking if you aren't using a guide, as well as grinding for materials if you want to use it frequently.

Zeninage: Which is available at the same time as Mix, but is far too costly to use as a primary attack.

Additionally, you have to switch around to those different jobs in order to master them, forcing players to mix things up from time to time, and nothing in the game actively encourages running 3-4 of the same job in the party. And that game is over 30 years old.

Merchant comes online much earlier than any of that stuff in FFV and allows you to fully ignore the battle system's core mechanics while working equally well against everything. Without really needing to grind, while staying in the one class line the entire game, and without any significant drawback to using the money attack as your only damage. The worst thing about running the build is needing to buy Rockbeans one at a time in a dialogue box so you can make Critical Buns for boss fights. The the build gets stronger later on with additional passives + Tycoon, but the gameplan doesn't really change.

I am not a Megaten fan and didn't really expect much from this game mechanically, but I can see why it would bug someone who is. I'm not really in love with the game either, but I'm just playing it to kill time until Romancing SaGa 2. I've gotten all I wanted out of it.

[Unforgiven]

i made a complete str/luck physical merchant main for regicide to test it and while the dmg is good as you said, even on full str build mage just does more dmg than 4x merchants, i went ahead and tried 4 mages, all with different inherited skills and my main with same archetype dmg boost and it actually hits ridiculous dmg

So i'm thinking it's actually a problem with any same-archetype team since u can just inherit any kind of support skill that u need on the other chars

Now i'm sitting on a mage with 65 str and 99 luck, amazing

Also the tycoon skill doesn't even hit 2,5x more dmg than the weak version, which is kinda weird, my mage heavy skill does 5x the dmg of the weak version lol

[Unforgiven]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย spoonygundam:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย SQUIRREL JELQING:

Lastly, broken jobs are no stranger to these games the rapid fire ninja in ff5 was busted af and drawing slice ninja strat in EO3 too. infact drawing slice could drop like 100k in a single turn

While true, there's a significant difference between Merchant in this game and busted things in other games.

Just talking FFV, since I'm much more familiar with that than EO because of dozens of 4JF runs.

Probably the most commonly used/known busted FFV things are:

Dual-wield, Spellblade, Rapid-fire: Which requires mastering three different jobs, which is about the limit of what you can master in a single playthrough without a bunch of grinding.

Dualcast, Quick: Which requires mastering the most expensive job in the game, which isn't happening until the end of the game without a bunch of grinding.

Mix: Which is available ~40% into the game, but requires tons of experimentation and note taking if you aren't using a guide, as well as grinding for materials if you want to use it frequently.

Zeninage: Which is available at the same time as Mix, but is far too costly to use as a primary attack.

Additionally, you have to switch around to those different jobs in order to master them, forcing players to mix things up from time to time, and nothing in the game actively encourages running 3-4 of the same job in the party. And that game is over 30 years old.

Merchant comes online much earlier than any of that stuff in FFV and allows you to fully ignore the battle system's core mechanics while working equally well against everything. Without really needing to grind, while staying in the one class line the entire game, and without any significant drawback to using the money attack as your only damage. The worst thing about running the build is needing to buy Rockbeans one at a time in a dialogue box so you can make Critical Buns for boss fights. The the build gets stronger later on with additional passives + Tycoon, but the gameplan doesn't really change.

I am not a Megaten fan and didn't really expect much from this game mechanically, but I can see why it would bug someone who is. I'm not really in love with the game either, but I'm just playing it to kill time until Romancing SaGa 2. I've gotten all I wanted out of it.

The drawback is that you have 4 chars with 2 weaknesses to elements that literally every endgame boss spams

[spoonygundam]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Unforgiven:

All i'm saying is the dmg doesn't break the game any more than mages do, i am literally hitting 20k meteor or skyfall on turn 1 with elemental master and after that 8k because no hyper, my summoner then does another 12k because of hyper (same as charge)
And yes, ANY boss has a weakness and it's called masked dancer. Which is why WEAKNESS is king in this game.
You get 25% from 2 slots, 1 slot for synthesis dmg and 1 slot for mp regen, you have infinite mp and hit 20k on EVERY boss in the game while still having an actual party setup and not 4 stupid merchants

Why are you comparing a late game/NG+ party comp to a NG comp that has over a month left on the calendar and none of the endgame gear/Archetypes available?

This is why I asked you how much effort it took to put the build together earlier.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Unforgiven:

So i'm thinking it's actually a problem with any same-archetype team since u can just inherit any kind of support skill that u need on the other chars

Yes, this is the core problem. The strongest setup is probably always going to be 3-4x of the same class just because of how potent those passives are.

I don't think anyone was saying Merchant was doing the highest possible damage at all stages of the game, it's just good enough, sometimes extremely good relative to the current bosses, and it comes online extremely early and lets you hit anything without caring about resistances. Mage takes forever to get additional inheritance slots because Gallica's bond is entirely story-gated, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's better eventually.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Unforgiven:

The drawback is that you have 4 chars with 2 weaknesses to elements that literally every endgame boss spams

I've seen one boss use light spells and zero use fire so far.

I'm not worried about fire when it shows up, because there's tons of resist/null/repel fire gear. Light IDK. Just dodge I guess, it wasn't that much trouble the time I saw it.

[Unforgiven]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย spoonygundam:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Unforgiven:

All i'm saying is the dmg doesn't break the game any more than mages do, i am literally hitting 20k meteor or skyfall on turn 1 with elemental master and after that 8k because no hyper, my summoner then does another 12k because of hyper (same as charge)
And yes, ANY boss has a weakness and it's called masked dancer. Which is why WEAKNESS is king in this game.
You get 25% from 2 slots, 1 slot for synthesis dmg and 1 slot for mp regen, you have infinite mp and hit 20k on EVERY boss in the game while still having an actual party setup and not 4 stupid merchants

Why are you comparing a late game/NG+ party comp to a NG comp that has over a month left on the calendar and none of the endgame gear/Archetypes available?

This is why I asked you how much effort it took to put the build together earlier.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Unforgiven:

So i'm thinking it's actually a problem with any same-archetype team since u can just inherit any kind of support skill that u need on the other chars

Yes, this is the core problem. The strongest setup is probably always going to be 3-4x of the same class just because of how potent those passives are.

I don't think anyone was saying Merchant was doing the highest possible damage at all stages of the game, it's just good enough, sometimes extremely good relative to the current bosses, and it comes online extremely early and lets you hit anything without caring about resistances. Mage takes forever to get additional inheritance slots because Gallica's bond is entirely story-gated, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's better eventually.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Unforgiven:

The drawback is that you have 4 chars with 2 weaknesses to elements that literally every endgame boss spams

I've seen one boss use light spells and zero use fire so far.

I'm not worried about fire when it shows up, because there's tons of resist/null/repel fire gear. Light IDK. Just dodge I guess, it wasn't that much trouble the time I saw it.

That build does no dmg either unless you have the inheritance slots to fit all the op passives so it's a very good comparison.
You've seen 0 bosses use fire spells and only 1 use light? Have u fought the dragons? Any of the final boss fights? Elegy?
You can have this kind of dmg on mage as soon as you're in the 2nd city, no 20k ofc but easy 1k+, enough to 1 tap most enemies
You can't put full fire dodge/nullify on all 4 chars because they all wear the same armor type and theres 1 item per type to nullify the element + the boots and if you do that he can't use the trinkets he's already using, see where i'm getting at?
You weren't saying merchant breaks the game but OP did, he was arguing that it's the most broken thing in the game and that it breaks the game.
Also i just changed my setup to no masked dancer since the guy said it requires masked dancer setup, so now i'm spamming Beelzebub for 15k almighty dmg with 1 click instead, big setup right

Magic is just way way easier to setup and get high numbers with and it hits far higher than most phys skills