I'd like these games more if....

[Syn]

.. the protagonist wasn't always a generic Kirito guy.

Seriously. Stop being boring. Kirito sucks. Sorry SAO fans, it's true.

[Clown Reemus]

Originally posted by MeanMothercyka:

Originally posted by Swimfan:

The main character is the definition of a blank slate which is by far the best way to make the player emphasize with him. If he had more personality, he'd be WAY more devicive (and looking at how long this game is that could seriously ruin the experience for some).

Choosing "boring" over "risky" is sadly very adivsable in this situation.

This isn't true. A lot of people can't empathize with a blank slate. No personality, no defining features.

This is what Shinji and Evangelion were for the vast majority of its audience, a sign of empty times and existential anguish. Kirito is a diametrically different trope.

[Dregora]

Originally posted by FluffyPotato:

Originally posted by REBirthTheEdge:

No, this is JRPG strong point, it has a pre-made character, sometimes with their own personality instead of character creation.

That would be great if they had a personality but the vast majority of these games the protagonist has the personality of an AI generated stick figure. Like Tales of Berseria is the only JRPG that comes to mind where the protagonist had a personality.

Then you haven't played many Tales games clearly. A lot of them have good leads. Not just the edgy female one.

Yuri above most of them, though.

[Shodingus]

Originally posted by Hi.standard:

Originally posted by Syn:

.. the protagonist wasn't always a generic Kirito guy.

Seriously. Stop being boring. Kirito sucks. Sorry SAO fans, it's true.

totally agree. Protag is literally always a 17 year old short bowl cut hair kid who is boring asf.

You guys are boiling down what a Kirito is WAY too hard. Have some dignity and just say you don't like the average shounen protagonist instead of being a tourist.

[Shodingus]

Originally posted by Swimfan:

Originally posted by REBirthTheEdge:

Sure, but that isn't a JRPG thing.

JRPG main characters are usefully defined characters, you just happen to control 'em.

The mixing of genres can mean more homonization which I don't like IMO

Sry mate but I think you're wrong.
The JRPG main character is normally a fixed person - but that person also normally has a backstory to justify their journey.
As I pointed out a post ago: The protagonists in ATLUS game are blank slates. They have almost no backstory which isn't how the JRPG trope usually works so well. The only defining feature blue-haired-boy has is that he's an Elda and he is friends with the prince ... so the story would loose nothing by letting us customize an Elda character. I was almost shocked that this time the main character is actually voiced because it shows how little it changes about his personality.

You clearly have not beaten the game so shut up and be silent. Your opinion is worth nothing until you've finished the story.

[Aldain]

Originally posted by Dregora:

Originally posted by FluffyPotato:

That would be great if they had a personality but the vast majority of these games the protagonist has the personality of an AI generated stick figure. Like Tales of Berseria is the only JRPG that comes to mind where the protagonist had a personality.

Then you haven't played many Tales games clearly. A lot of them have good leads. Not just the edgy female one.

Yuri above most of them, though.

Honestly I checked out of Tales after Graces, kind of just lost me after that point for some reason I can't fully put my finger on, or maybe I changed but that doesn't make sense to me either since I still like everything from Phantasia to Graces with no issues.

[REBirthTheEdge]

I'm literally 30 hours in, and I still don't find anything wrong with the main protag.

He's a lovable lil dude who grow balls when it comes to danger, I find it hard to actively dislike him.

[causality]

Filtered.

[Clown Reemus]

Originally posted by Dregora:

Originally posted by FluffyPotato:

That would be great if they had a personality but the vast majority of these games the protagonist has the personality of an AI generated stick figure. Like Tales of Berseria is the only JRPG that comes to mind where the protagonist had a personality.

Then you haven't played many Tales games clearly. A lot of them have good leads. Not just the edgy female one.

Yuri above most of them, though.

Tales series has the other extreme on the spectrum of generic tropes in Japanese media. Their protagonists are infalliable, and always innocent. Nothing they do can be seen in a bad light, because they care for someone, they sacrifice something for others and they look to help everyone. They are even more unrealistic than the Kirito archetype, because they have no character on their own, no personality beyond being a "hero" for everyone else involved. They are infallible, and only the sense of heroic duty is propelling them forward, no trauma or anything else. This can be seen in Berseria, in the one about small kid after, and in Arise as well - and Arise goes even further in that escapist fantasy peddling, and sells also a proper romance between the two most obvious candidates, available since the beginning of the game.


None of this should be celebrated. The people writing these games are not newbies - they do know about the history of Japanese protaginists and all the tropes associated with them. The problem is that they write them intentionally like that, because it sells and is easily digested by an average member of the audience. The vast majority of writers have stopped trying to jump over their head, to evolve the narrative further, and are just putting food on their plate through re-producing simple, refined male protagonists (thankfully, writing females requires way more effort and its easily seen when a male author just couldn't do it well or, seldom, actually did it well), without exerting any genuine effort.

[REBirthTheEdge]

Originally posted by Clown:

Originally posted by Dregora:

Then you haven't played many Tales games clearly. A lot of them have good leads. Not just the edgy female one.

Yuri above most of them, though.

Tales series has the other extreme on the spectrum of generic tropes in Japanese media. Their protagonists are infalliable, and always innocent. Nothing they do can be seen in a bad light, because they care for someone, they sacrifice something for others and they look to help everyone. They are even more unrealistic than the Kirito archetype, because they have no character on their own, no personality beyond being a "hero" for everyone else involved. They are infallible, and only the sense of heroic duty is propelling them forward, no trauma or anything else. This can be seen in Berseria, in the one about small kid after, and in Arise as well - and Arise goes even further in that escapist fantasy peddling, and sells also a proper romance between the two most obvious candidates, available since the beginning of the game.


None of this should be celebrated. The people writing these games are not newbies - they do know about the history of Japanese protaginists and all the tropes associated with them. The problem is that they write them intentionally like that, because it sells and is easily digested by an average member of the audience. The vast majority of writers have stopped trying to jump over their head, to evolve the narrative further, and are just putting food on their plate through re-producing simple, refined male protagonists (thankfully, writing females requires way more effort and its easily seen when a male author just couldn't do it well or, seldom, actually did it well), without exerting any genuine effort.

This reads like some chatGPT script.

[Shodingus]

Originally posted by Clown:

Originally posted by Dregora:

Then you haven't played many Tales games clearly. A lot of them have good leads. Not just the edgy female one.

Yuri above most of them, though.

Tales series has the other extreme on the spectrum of generic tropes in Japanese media. Their protagonists are infalliable, and always innocent. Nothing they do can be seen in a bad light, because they care for someone, they sacrifice something for others and they look to help everyone. They are even more unrealistic than the Kirito archetype, because they have no character on their own, no personality beyond being a "hero" for everyone else involved. They are infallible, and only the sense of heroic duty is propelling them forward, no trauma or anything else. This can be seen in Berseria, in the one about small kid after, and in Arise as well - and Arise goes even further in that escapist fantasy peddling, and sells also a proper romance between the two most obvious candidates, available since the beginning of the game.


None of this should be celebrated. The people writing these games are not newbies - they do know about the history of Japanese protaginists and all the tropes associated with them. The problem is that they write them intentionally like that, because it sells and is easily digested by an average member of the audience. The vast majority of writers have stopped trying to jump over their head, to evolve the narrative further, and are just putting food on their plate through re-producing simple, refined male protagonists (thankfully, writing females requires way more effort and its easily seen when a male author just couldn't do it well or, seldom, actually did it well), without exerting any genuine effort.

Ok buddy we get it, you hate JRPGs and their use of tropes. Go find a type of game or even an entirely different hobby that you actually enjoy.

[Clown Reemus]

Originally posted by Shodingus:

Originally posted by Clown:

Tales series has the other extreme on the spectrum of generic tropes in Japanese media. Their protagonists are infalliable, and always innocent. Nothing they do can be seen in a bad light, because they care for someone, they sacrifice something for others and they look to help everyone. They are even more unrealistic than the Kirito archetype, because they have no character on their own, no personality beyond being a "hero" for everyone else involved. They are infallible, and only the sense of heroic duty is propelling them forward, no trauma or anything else. This can be seen in Berseria, in the one about small kid after, and in Arise as well - and Arise goes even further in that escapist fantasy peddling, and sells also a proper romance between the two most obvious candidates, available since the beginning of the game.


None of this should be celebrated. The people writing these games are not newbies - they do know about the history of Japanese protaginists and all the tropes associated with them. The problem is that they write them intentionally like that, because it sells and is easily digested by an average member of the audience. The vast majority of writers have stopped trying to jump over their head, to evolve the narrative further, and are just putting food on their plate through re-producing simple, refined male protagonists (thankfully, writing females requires way more effort and its easily seen when a male author just couldn't do it well or, seldom, actually did it well), without exerting any genuine effort.

Ok buddy we get it, you hate JRPGs and their use of tropes. Go find a type of game or even an entirely different hobby that you actually enjoy.

This isn't an authentic attempt to engage in this discussion. If you feel like your understanding of the problematic is inferiour to mine, then, by all means, do not feel forced to retort with something like "Ok don't like it don't play it". It's essenceless. On the other hand, if you think I've said something wrong, then I welcome you to spell it out properly, and engage in a discussion to see where the truth of the matter lies. After all, such is the purpose of Steam forums. Not to regurgitate one-liners thinking they have any actual value to anyone involved, oneself included.

[Shodingus]

Originally posted by Clown:

Originally posted by Shodingus:

Ok buddy we get it, you hate JRPGs and their use of tropes. Go find a type of game or even an entirely different hobby that you actually enjoy.

This isn't an authentic attempt to engage in this discussion. If you feel like your understanding of the problematic is inferiour to mine, then, by all means, do not feel forced to retort with something like "Ok don't like it don't play it". It's essenceless. On the other hand, if you think I've said something wrong, then I welcome you to spell it out properly, and engage in a discussion to see where the truth of the matter lies. After all, such is the purpose of Steam forums. Not to regurgitate one-liners thinking they have any actual value to anyone involved, oneself included.

You don't like tropes. JRPGs like using tropes. Ergo, JRPGs are not for you, go find a different hobby.

[Clown Reemus]

I do not think you understand the crux of the problem. There is nothing bad with liking tropes, sure. But if you cannot criticially evaluate the medium and see that the majority of stories is built entirely on generic, low-effort tropes that are widespread in the industry - that's a personal issue. A lack of refined taste, or lack of experience. This is something each one of us should be working on - and that would eliminate low-effort games altogether, because they will lose all demand.

[REBirthTheEdge]

Originally posted by Shodingus:

Originally posted by Clown:

This isn't an authentic attempt to engage in this discussion. If you feel like your understanding of the problematic is inferiour to mine, then, by all means, do not feel forced to retort with something like "Ok don't like it don't play it". It's essenceless. On the other hand, if you think I've said something wrong, then I welcome you to spell it out properly, and engage in a discussion to see where the truth of the matter lies. After all, such is the purpose of Steam forums. Not to regurgitate one-liners thinking they have any actual value to anyone involved, oneself included.

You don't like tropes. JRPGs like using tropes. Ergo, JRPGs are not for you, go find a different hobby.

Agreed.

Criticism makes sense when it's constructive, not when it's a bunch of a ChatGPT wall'o'text.

[Shodingus]

Originally posted by Clown:

I do not think you understand the crux of the problem. There is nothing bad with liking tropes, sure. But if you cannot criticially evaluate the medium and see that the majority of stories is built entirely on generic, low-effort tropes that are widespread in the industry - that's a personal issue. A lack of refined taste, or lack of experience. This is something each one of us should be working on - and that would eliminate low-effort games altogether, because they will lose all demand.

Personally, I think you don't even own the game, mister private account.