Is Atlu's pattern of releasing gold/royal versions predatory?

[Hi.standard]

I think the first Royal or Gold version was...cool.

But I wonder if this is something they intend to do with basically every title they release from now on.

I think they've re-releaed every title since like Devil survivor or as a remake/redo/HD/Royal or Gold.

and it begs the question, why don't they just release these games in their best state to begin with? I honestly wouldn't care if it wasn't so...(recently) within 2-3 years there is a better version of a game now.

They've clearly done the math, and surely must be making more money doing this than just releasing one excellent version.


It's hard to get the most accurate data but this seems to be what I can find so far
personsa 3: 127,000 copies in first week
persona 3 fes: sold a million copies in it's first week
persona 5: approximately 9 million
persona 5 royal: approximately 3 million
smt5 approximately 1 million
smt vengeance approx. 500k



so in the case of P5 and P5 Royal, as well as SMT 5 and SMT 5 Vengeance.
they were able to sell between 35%-50% more units at what added cost to include the extra content? I highly doubt the cost of adding or making these royal versions is anywhere near the money they get from it.

all the assets, story, art, music, is pretty much all in place. (so that cost is minimal)
so they add some more cut scenes, some voice acting, some probably already drafted creative assets that were already in development(new monster's etc) and do some marketing again and get about 50% more sales again.

I dunno..it's bordering predatory. (maybe that's hyperbole) but I can't say I'm liking the direction they are going with this pattern and it really gives me great hesitation in buying any new Atlus games on release..

[REBirthTheEdge]

I am OK with it since 2 years is a long time. SMTVV is a good example.

I just fear they add so much to make the game easier though.

[zero]

predatory is probably the wrong term for it, as it isn't really a system of trying to manipulate the user into obtaining it, like a gacha/gambling game would be.

it would be greedy though, to sell a whole new game for new price rather then dlc for a smaller cost.

[MancSoulja]

For Atlus to be a predator, their customers must be prey. That means you're alluding to the fact that I don't know what I'm doing when I buy a new game and that I can be manipulated into buying the same game twice.

When I bought Persona 5 Royal on PC after buying Persona 5 on the PS5 a year earlier, I knew exactly what I was doing, I wasn't manipulated. I wanted it on the PC an why wouldn't I want the best version?

Why wouuld I buy Dragon Quest XII when I can buy the definitive edition for the same price? The Golden/Royal editions are not to trick customers into double dipping, they're there to give new customers an incentive to buy because they obviously didn't bite the first time round.

[Grink "V.F" da Boy]

it'd be less egregious if existing owners could just purchase it as an expansion rather than "buy the whole game again!"

[Null Winter]

Originally posted by Grink "V.F" da Boy:

it'd be less egregious if existing owners could just purchase it as an expansion rather than "buy the whole game again!"

The problem is that the newer entries sometimes include wholly new content that becomes canon, rewriting or entirely replacing prior scenes; in P3's mobile release, Timothy replaces Elizabeth and the female protagonist changes most of the Social Links and many scenes, offering mostly new stories that end up in a weird mixed canon between the original story and the new possibilities. Marie is also a core force in The Golden; both she and Timothy make canon appearances in later games, so it's not like fans of the Persona series can freely skip the re-releases without the risk of missing important story content.

With so much new content, Atlus probably feels safe in forcing a new release. I'd prefer just waiting longer for all the originally planned stuff, personally.

[Hi.standard]

Originally posted by Grink "V.F" da Boy:

it'd be less egregious if existing owners could just purchase it as an expansion rather than "buy the whole game again!"

I agree, I wanted to get SMT Vengeance, but...i mean I had just bought it on Switch like 6 months before so it was pretty irking to think I'd have to spend full price to get Vengeances, which by all accounts seemed to be 90% the same game.

[MESeele]

I wouldn't say it's predatory, but it is slimy.

[Fox Tenson]

Originally posted by Hi.standard:

Originally posted by Grink "V.F" da Boy:

it'd be less egregious if existing owners could just purchase it as an expansion rather than "buy the whole game again!"

I agree, I wanted to get SMT Vengeance, but...i mean I had just bought it on Switch like 6 months before so it was pretty irking to think I'd have to spend full price to get Vengeances, which by all accounts seemed to be 90% the same game.

Vengence has the base game in it with QoL changes but it is NOT 90% the same game, at all. Vengeance re uses some areas but has entirely different story, different changes to areas, brand new areas, and is basically SMTV A, like SMT4a was to 4. It starts the same, but quickly derails into something very different story and progression wise.

You basically get the original game AND a new game all in one. Two games in one. You choose which one you want to play.

[Hi.standard]

Originally posted by Fox Tenson:

Originally posted by Hi.standard:

I agree, I wanted to get SMT Vengeance, but...i mean I had just bought it on Switch like 6 months before so it was pretty irking to think I'd have to spend full price to get Vengeances, which by all accounts seemed to be 90% the same game.

Vengence has the base game in it with QoL changes but it is NOT 90% the same game, at all. Vengeance re uses some areas but has entirely different story, different changes to areas, brand new areas, and is basically SMTV A, like SMT4a was to 4. It starts the same, but quickly derails into something very different story and progression wise.

You basically get the original game AND a new game all in one. Two games in one. You choose which one you want to play.

maybe the marketing or whatever isn't that clear, because it didn't seem like a separate or different game or whatever. but just an added scenario? I mean how much of vengeance would you say is it SMT5, 80% then? I asked on the forums when it came out and many just said it probably isn't worth getting if you have SMT5 already, so I didn't get it.

[Jeff4u]

This is bad business model even worst than DLC and greedy not has a upgrade.

In the old day for console w/o backward compatible, it may be fine. In PC world, it is a joke.

SMTV Vengence or Persona may feel better as it is just 1st release in PC. Old customers should feel very bad for 1st day purchase.

[REBirthTheEdge]

Originally posted by Jeff4u:

This is bad business model even worst than DLC and greedy not has a upgrade.

In the old day for console w/o backward compatible, it may be fine. In PC world, it is a joke.

SMTV Vengence or Persona may feel better as it is just 1st release in PC. Old customers should feel very bad for 1st day purchase.

PC used to have expansion disc too.

[Jeff4u]

Originally posted by REBirthTheEdge:

Originally posted by Jeff4u:

This is bad business model even worst than DLC and greedy not has a upgrade.

In the old day for console w/o backward compatible, it may be fine. In PC world, it is a joke.

SMTV Vengence or Persona may feel better as it is just 1st release in PC. Old customers should feel very bad for 1st day purchase.

PC used to have expansion disc too.

DLC is ok, just addon on top of base game. not talking about those crappy day one DLC.

But re-release a new game with 90% same content w/o upgrade path. This is another level of greedy.

[L0KisT3r]

I'm too familiar with:

Pokemon Red, Blue, Green and Yellow.
Pokemon Gold, Silver and Crystal
Pokemon Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald
...
The list goes on

[archonsod]

Originally posted by Hi.standard:

and it begs the question, why don't they just release these games in their best state to begin with?

Development costs money.

so in the case of P5 and P5 Royal, as well as SMT 5 and SMT 5 Vengeance.
they were able to sell between 35%-50% more units at what added cost to include the extra content?

Yes, though a considerable amount of the additional sales likely stem from the fact that SMT V was multi-platform rather than Switch exclusive, similarly P5R went multiplatform while the original P5 was Playstation exclusive.
It's not exactly unique to Atlus. Pretty much since the days of the original Playstation and Xbox developers have released as an exclusive on one platform, then ported over to other formats once the exclusivity was over as a 'Game of the Year' edition or similar. If anything Atlus are just following the old-school method; these days the additional content in the GOTY is usually made available to the original release in the format of DLC and the like, though even then it's fairly normal you end up paying more getting the original game plus the DLC as it comes out than you would if you simply waited for the inevitable GOTY edition.

all the assets, story, art, music, is pretty much all in place.

They don't pay by the pixel. Atlus have full time developers, they get a salary. Costs the same to keep them employed whether they're working on a new game, old game or simply twiddling their thumbs.

I dunno..it's bordering predatory.

No one is forcing you to buy them.

Originally posted by Jeff4u:

SMTV Vengence or Persona may feel better as it is just 1st release in PC. Old customers should feel very bad for 1st day purchase.

Why? How is it any different from us paying full price for the game now knowing full well by this time next year it's likely to have been available at half the price?

[REBirthTheEdge]

Originally posted by Jeff4u:

Originally posted by REBirthTheEdge:

PC used to have expansion disc too.

DLC is ok, just addon on top of base game. not talking about those crappy day one DLC.

But re-release a new game with 90% same content w/o upgrade path. This is another level of greedy.

I remember complete/gold edition, boxset are basically about that.