Metaphor: ReFantazio

Metaphor: ReFantazio

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Zevedeos Oct 21, 2024 @ 1:06pm
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+1 of these posts where someone voices their opinion about the game(if you care).
Hello everybody.

I tried the demo and I watched a few playthroughs.
I think I won't play the full game and here is why(for anyone that cares).

Story:
The story begins strong and weak at the same time. Let me explain(cook).
Although slightly alienating for a persona fan, it felt great to step away from highschool and sort of alternate dimensions stuff. I like medieval fantasy and things happening in "reality". This is more or less where the good about the story stops...

The bad
Too much too fast~happening and without establishing beforehand or doing much to establish as they happen, a care/attachment for the characters and what is going on. I didn't feel much of anything about any of the characters involved.

While at first it seems something deeper and along the lines of persona games(which I liked as they tend to dive into personality, feelings and shades between black and white, sort of more relatable and realistic), it then became some cringe cliche-tropey and shallow anime plot.

A lot of things don't make much sense as well.
Some scrawny, nerdy and emo looking little kiddo(I will say more about MC appearance and design later on), not only easily survives from some drop off a cliff but also manages to survive and navigate through the desert wilderness...Okay sure let's say he got very lucky...
You learn that he is from some minority species that everyone thinks bad and shuns away for no reason other than them being minority...Okay fair enough.
Then this character is somehow accepted into the army without much of an issue...Okay sure, lets say(SPOILER ALERT, then again it's extremely early in the story so I feel like 99% if not 100% of people already know this), because they just wanted to send people to their deaths anyway.

You learn that this pathetic little nerdy kiddo who's absorbed by and motivated from some stupid book that writes about some naive unrealistic utopia(basically our real life world if it was also "ideal" and paradise), was sent to deliver an important message, find a cure to a curse that not even "the saint" could remedy, and to deal with the all powerful genius villain, preventing him from ascending to the throne...
Which makes you wonder: How? Why? Who in their right mind would send this early teens (appearance) feminine emo-ish kiddo that daydreams about a utopia in a silly book to such a mission? Mind you, he wasn't even "awakened" to some powers/Persona poor cousins & rip offs yet.
BUT okay...Let's say they were desperate enough to send a person like that to such a gravely important mission. That there was nobody else to go/send...

Then you have grown a** adults following him and accepting him as their leader/captain and being okay or actually(and worse) also kind of accepting and motivated from this bookworm and his absurdly silly naive utopia book...Okay ONCE AGAIN I will try to excuse this crap by following along the lines/words of the villain and saying they only put up with this extremely crappy MC and his immaturity due to these "awakened hero"/persona rip off powers...

And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

---
At this point I feel like I am sort of constantly trying to believe and excuse poor plot elements/choices and for a story/plot that does nothing for me to feel invested in anything it shows on screen. I am constantly trying to not lose the immersion, to follow the story and trying to care/give a damn.

At the same time it feels like they are trying to blend persona into a medieval fantasy setting. Which isn't inherently bad but it's bad because of the poor way it happened.
Examples:
"More/The author" character < Igor character.
Academia pocket dimension design < Velvet room.
Academia music/feeling/atmosphere < Velvet room.
Less "personas"(persona rip offs) with barely any of them looking good/cool or different from each other and their metalic junk aesthetics < Lots of choices with some of them looking cool and satisfying aesthetically to use.
Dialogue and activities with "followers" < Dialogue and activities with friends/companions/condidants.

Some good
Almost everything feels worse/a downgrade from Persona series except for the dungeon runs and related things, including combat and gameplay. These were improved and I liked, kudos.


Characters:
MC is bad, no matter the aspect. Personality, outlooks/design, everything.

"Awards" for the worst outlooks(model and outfit wise) goes to MC, Strohl, Neueirus Corax and a few other silly looking tournament contestants.
When MC joined the army, it felt sorta better but that sadly didn't last long...Soon the MC was back into his awful traveling clothes. And Strohl too.
I see that the game released some much needed DLC outfits for the characters but the thing is that they wear them only during dungeons.

Which brings me to another gripe I have with current day RPGs....
Anyone here knows of SE's "Radiata Stories" from PS2 era back in 2005?
Well that game had some revolutionary features for it's time, features that even today, nearly 20 years later you don't find them as often as you should.
In Radiata Stories not only you could freely choose which type of weapon you wanted to use and it had different look for every single weapon but the same applied to gear/armor. Every single armor you equiped on MC, had a different appearance and changed how he looked.

And get this...Because the vast majority of the game events happened in actual gameplay rendering/"live", and not some pre rendered and animated cutscene, you'd see Jack(the MC) wear your current-chosen armor pretty much 24/7.


==
These for now. I am tired and can't think of anything else at the moment. I might edit and update with more at some point.


Edit(Answer to Zero):

"from the start you fail to engage in the premise"

The premise fails to be engaging. Just because it's all a fantasy, it doesn't excuse written nonsense and plot holes.

And I don't see how the things you say are related to "too many things happen, too fast". The story is a mess, unengaging and hard to follow or believe.

Another example. The king was sick and easily killed from villain, but then somehow, out of nowhere he still had massive amounts of power and being able to use them while dead to lift up from the ground an entire castle, keep it up there for god knows how long(surely weeks if not more), among other things it did and monitored.

The MC is unlikable and unpleasant to watch and play from every angle.

MC was sent there to deliver a message but not only that. His mission involved dealing with the villain and finding a way to cure the prince. The MC is a far cry from being able/qualified to do any of these things. Even for traveling to this area and delivering the message, he is a poor choice.

The MC might be an adult but he surely doesn't look it. He looks like a 12-15(at most) year old. And if I recall correctly even Brigitta among others point out how young he is and how unqualified he seems to be.

In fact a couple of characters bring up that they are giving him a chance to prove himself worthy because of his relation to Alces.

"and yes, people following the person who shows leadership skills is normal"
He has none of that, what dfo you mean? He is unqualified from every single aspect. The only good thing about him is the "I am the mc/hero of the story" plot armor with the awakening. If you look at his "social" stats(which include bravery, smarts ect), they are all 0. You have literally 0 skills. You have to develop them slowly with certain activities.


Back to pacing. The game has serious story pacing issues. While it went too much too fast with things happening, it somewhat felt like forever until you managed to get past the "tutorial"/prologue phase and unlock all the features/access.
Last edited by Zevedeos; Oct 22, 2024 @ 8:20am
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Showing 1-15 of 161 comments
zero Oct 21, 2024 @ 1:27pm 
i see a lot of presumptions or just a general lack of understanding of the events that are going on, along with simply not knowing the full story.

from the start you fail to engage in the premise, you aren't suspending your disbelief, as is a part of all fantasy, so the complaints about "things happening too fast" comes from that, the entire start is all about setting up the game going forward, thats why its happening fast, thats why you suspend your disbelief, you need to take the events as they are, as they are setting the world up for you.

the whole cliff/evade monsters is, functionally, yes luck, the character is not a fighter, which leads into the next part:

protag is not sent there to assassinate, they are sent there to deliver a message, but things had changed(your not-persona awakening) before the message had been delivered, so you now have more involvement

and yes, people following the person who shows leadership skills is normal, the protag is ultimately an adult, a young adult, but still one in the end, who is actually the one who is doing something about the situation.

as for your opinion on the Mc: thats just an opinion, your entitled to it.

there is more i could say to actually explain a few things, but considering i don't want to spoil it for people who actually own the game, ill avoid that unless someone else spoils it.
Last edited by zero; Oct 21, 2024 @ 1:28pm
Viper Oct 21, 2024 @ 1:31pm 
A person who does not even own the game or understand the story at all.
archonsod Oct 21, 2024 @ 1:33pm 
Originally posted by Zevedeos:
I like medieval fantasy
It's not medieval.
I didn't feel much of anything about any of the characters involved.
Generally it's rare to feel anything for characters during a prologue due to the fact you've only known them five minutes. I'm not sure if you can really get around that.
You learn that he is from some minority species that everyone thinks bad and shuns away...Okay fair enough.
It's fantasy. Do you reckon Yoda would have any issues taking on a small fall down a cliff and a desert? Guy looks like a geriatric frog, yet he's supposedly the grandmaster of the Jedi order. Kind of the point in having non-human races; they're actually different to humans.
Then this character is somehow accepted into the army without much of an issue...
Literally after the game tells you the situation is so bad they're at the point of accepting anything with a pulse. For bonus points, you may even recall the fact the army is accepting anyone who volunteers is directly responsible for you going over a cliff and having to cross a desert to begin with.
was sent to the capital to deal with the all powerful genius villain...
If you were actually paying attention you would in fact have learned said kid has been sent to the capital to deliver a message to Grius. The guy who's head of the clandestine organisation in the capital and presumably far more adequately equipped to deal with the all powerful genius villain. If you'd noted that you might have some inkling of why they thought the best people for this task would be a small fairy and a nondescript Elda kid rather than some conspicuous beefcake with more brawn than brains.
Then you have grown a** adults following him around and accepting him as their leader/captain
Yeah, it's amazing what breaking the known laws of physics in the course of single handedly kicking the arse of a giant monster that's just laid waste to an entire fort will do for your reputation.
Rubyeyed Oct 21, 2024 @ 1:35pm 
If I was Strohl and saw MC doing all this crazy magic without an igniter at the fort and then I got this power myself I would be like "damn, better stick with this guy" even though is isn't of legal drinking age.
causality Oct 21, 2024 @ 1:40pm 
>Neuras has a bad model.
Now that was a hoot to read, the outfit design might not be fitting for someone who spends time around a lot of moving parts/machinery but it oozes drip and aesthetics. I am throwing your opinion in the trash now.
Zevedeos Oct 21, 2024 @ 1:50pm 
"from the start you fail to engage in the premise"

The premise fails to be engaging. Just because it's all a fantasy, it doesn't excuse written nonsense and plot holes.

And I don't see how the things you say are related to "too many things happen, too fast". The story is a mess, unengaging and hard to follow or believe.

Another example. The king was sick and easily killed from villain, but then somehow, out of nowhere he still had massive amounts of power and being able to use them while dead to lift up from the ground an entire castle, keep it up there for god knows how long(surely weeks if not more), among other things it did and monitored.

The MC is unlikable and unpleasant to watch and play from every angle.

MC was sent there to deliver a message but not only that. His mission involved dealing with the villain and finding a way to cure the prince. The MC is a far cry from being able/qualified to do any of these things. Even for traveling to this area and delivering the message, he is a poor choice.

The MC might be an adult but he surely doesn't look it. He looks like a 12-15(at most) year old. And if I recall correctly even Brigitta among others point out how young he is and how unqualified he seems to be.

In fact a couple of characters bring up that they are giving him a chance to prove himself worthy because of his relation to Alces.

"and yes, people following the person who shows leadership skills is normal"
He has none of that, what dfo you mean? He is unqualified from every single aspect. The only good thing about him is the "I am the mc/hero of the story" plot armor with the awakening. If you look at his "social" stats(which include bravery, smarts ect), they are all 0. You have literally 0 skills. You have to develop them slowly with certain activities.


Back to pacing. The game has serious story pacing issues. While it went too much too fast with things happening, it somewhat felt like forever until you managed to get past the "tutorial"/prologue phase and unlock all the features/access.
Last edited by Zevedeos; Oct 21, 2024 @ 1:52pm
DivineLion Oct 21, 2024 @ 1:51pm 
Originally posted by Zevedeos:

You learn that this pathetic little nerdy kiddo who's absorbed by and motivated from some stupid book that writes about some naive unrealistic utopia(basically our real life world if it was also "ideal" and paradise), was sent to the capital to deal with the all powerful genius villain...
Which makes you wonder: How? Why? Who in their right mind would send this early teens weak pathetic naive little kid to such a mission? Mind you, he wasn't even "awakened" to some powers/Persona poor cousins & rip offs yet.
BUT okay...Let's say they were desperate enough to send such character to such mission, that there was nobody else to go/send...
pathetic? lol what is this
Zevedeos Oct 21, 2024 @ 1:59pm 
Originally posted by Viper:
A person who does not even own the game or understand the story at all.
I understand the story which I saw on demo and other people playing it~ and because it's bad, I don't think that I will purchase.

Simple concept, no?
EpicNameGuy Oct 21, 2024 @ 2:02pm 
Why even take the time to write this? You bought it, didn't like it. Just submit the review and delete the game.
Zevedeos Oct 21, 2024 @ 2:02pm 
Originally posted by Rubyeyed:
If I was Strohl and saw MC doing all this crazy magic without an igniter at the fort and then I got this power myself I would be like "damn, better stick with this guy" even though is isn't of legal drinking age.

You mean if you watched same pathelic lame little scrawny emo kiddo with 0s in all his social stats(bravery, smarts etc) who's daydreaming and motivated from some naive unrealistic utopia in a book, receive blatant MC plot armor.
DivineLion Oct 21, 2024 @ 2:04pm 
Originally posted by Zevedeos:
Originally posted by Rubyeyed:
If I was Strohl and saw MC doing all this crazy magic without an igniter at the fort and then I got this power myself I would be like "damn, better stick with this guy" even though is isn't of legal drinking age.

You mean if you watched same pathelic lame little scrawny emo kiddo with 0s in all his social stats(bravery, smarts etc) who's daydreaming and motivated from some naive unrealistic utopia in a book, receive blatant MC plot armor.
this is just sad
Zevedeos Oct 21, 2024 @ 2:04pm 
Originally posted by EpicNameGuy:
Why even take the time to write this? You bought it, didn't like it. Just submit the review and delete the game.

I didn't buy it. Might want to pay attention to what I write?
Also I get the idea from you and some others here that you don't want to read my opinion.
Then why are you reading and responding? I am clearly writing on the title and in my post "for those that care" about my post/opinion.
Zevedeos Oct 21, 2024 @ 2:06pm 
Originally posted by DivineLion:
Originally posted by Zevedeos:

You mean if you watched same pathelic lame little scrawny emo kiddo with 0s in all his social stats(bravery, smarts etc) who's daydreaming and motivated from some naive unrealistic utopia in a book, receive blatant MC plot armor.
this is just sad

We agree, although probably for different reasons :)
Klinestife Oct 21, 2024 @ 2:09pm 
k. here's my opinion about your opinions.
Originally posted by Zevedeos:

Too much too fast~happening and without establishing beforehand or doing much to establish as they happen, a care/attachment for the characters and what is going on. I didn't feel much of anything about any of the characters involved.

this is actually universal across all stories. while there is an art to making a strong first impression, every single story ever starts with things happening to characters that you don't care about. as an example, why should i care that joker got framed and expelled from his last school? i don't know him.

the only reason you care about joker being framed and you don't care that the king gets murdered and throws the whole country into chaos is just because of your personal biases and tastes, not because of an inherent writing mistake.

Originally posted by Zevedeos:
While at first it seems something deeper and along the lines of persona games(which I liked as they tend to dive into personality, feelings and shades between black and white, sort of more relatable and realistic), it then became some cringe cliche-tropey and shallow anime plot.

expand on how this becomes cliche/tropey/shallow instead of just saying it and moving on. i could very easily say the same about every single jrpg that's ever existed.

Originally posted by Zevedeos:
A lot of things don't make much sense as well.
Some scrawny, nerdy and emo looking little kiddo(I will say more about MC appearance and design later on), not only easily survives from some drop off a cliff but also manages to survive and navigate through the desert wilderness...Okay sure let's say he got very lucky...

before this happens, you are attacked by magic and see a lady basically flash stepping. it is not at all a stretch to believe that the MC is part of some species that has high durability. as for navigating the desert wilderness, he has a fairy with him that can scan the map. again, not a stretch. none of this is as hard to disbelieve as half the ♥♥♥♥ that happens in any of the persona prologues.

Originally posted by Zevedeos:
Then this character is somehow accepted into the army without much of an issue...

they specifically say "we could always use more orphans". that alone should give you enough context clues as to why they're accepting him without much of an issue.

Originally posted by Zevedeos:
You learn that this pathetic little nerdy kiddo who's absorbed by and motivated from some stupid book that writes about some naive unrealistic utopia(basically our real life world if it was also "ideal" and paradise), was sent to the capital to deal with the all powerful genius villain...
Which makes you wonder: How? Why? Who in their right mind would send this early teens weak pathetic naive little kid to such a mission? Mind you, he wasn't even "awakened" to some powers/Persona poor cousins & rip offs yet.
BUT okay...Let's say they were desperate enough to send such character to such mission, that there was nobody else to go/send....

he's not. there was a flashback detailing exactly what their mission is, and gallica constantly yaps about what the mission is. pay attention.

Originally posted by Zevedeos:
Then you have grown a** adults following him around and accepting him as their leader/captain and being okay or actually(and worse) also kind of motivated from this bookworm and his silly naive utopia book...OKAY once again I will try to excuse this crap by following along the lines/words of the villain and saying they acknowledge the MC due to these "awakened hero"/persona rip off powers...

the experienced member of the party gives him advice, but leaves it up to him. it is basically identical to P3-5, where there's a more knowledgeable member on the team from the start of the story but leaves it to the MC for one reason or another. by your logic, morgana should have lead the party from the start because he's the most knowledgeable member of the party by far.

Originally posted by Zevedeos:
At this point I feel like I am sort of constantly trying to believe and excuse poor plot elements/choices and for a story/plot that does nothing for me to feel invested in anything it shows on screen. I am constantly trying to not lose the immersion, to follow the story and trying to care/give a damn.

k. sorry to hear that's how you feel.

Originally posted by Zevedeos:
At the same time it feels like they are trying to blend persona into a medieval fantasy setting. Which isn't inherently bad but it's bad because of the poor way it happened.
Examples:
"More/The author" character < Igor character.

the back two points are subjectives, but you can't know if more is better or worse than igor if you only ever watched the demo. the only thing you can say is "igor leaves a better first impression".

Originally posted by Zevedeos:
Dialogue and activities with "followers" < Dialogue and activities with friends/companions/condidants.

again, you can't possible know if followers are better or worse than persona's social links.

Originally posted by Zevedeos:
MC is bad, no matter the aspect. Personality, outlooks/design, everything.

sorry to hear that's how you feel.
Last edited by Klinestife; Oct 21, 2024 @ 2:10pm
zero Oct 21, 2024 @ 2:09pm 
Originally posted by Zevedeos:
"from the start you fail to engage in the premise"

The premise fails to be engaging. Just because it's all a fantasy, it doesn't excuse written nonsense and plot holes.
which is again, you failing to engage in the premise, which is why you were incorrect about a large chunk of the early game story
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Date Posted: Oct 21, 2024 @ 1:06pm
Posts: 161