[Spoiler] That "plot-twist" (after Opera House) - I uninstalled

[Swimfan]

Edit:
I actually re-installed because spending 50 bucks on the game and then not finishing it felt like a waste.

Well ... after finishing the game it still leaves a very sour taste in my mouth. My impression hasn't changed a lot: The entire story collapses the moment after the Opera house. Louis basically transforms into a cartoon villain/story threats that feel really important (the Saint and the Church/M. Academy) just rush by (they did Rella REALLY dirty - what happened to that arc?! It felt rushed AF) and very final battle (last form) aside nothing hooked me (and I mean the fights themselves - the story behind it was something I have seen a million times). Louis became just "unreemably bad" for the sake of it while your party members basically climb over each other to sacrifice themselves without any consequences.

Some credit: They really tried to make the ending "complete" (lots of scenes of what happens after) but by that point I also wasn't invested anymore because what I initially said holds true: If they fake-kill one character (Louis) 2 times, they will do it again and again. The moment your crew "sacrifices themselves" I just laughed because of how meldramatic and senseless that was - and of course they come back fine and dandy with a (let's face it) more than flimsy explanation. I had to fight my way through everyone talking about friendship and love in the end before the final fight.

Overall I think the writing in this game STARTS very strong and stumbles so badly that I almost suspect that they switched writers halfway through.

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Urgh ....

I loved the game's story so much. Louis dead and - of course - he wasn't the one with the curse ... Forden in a better position ... such compelling plot points and then it all just gets thrown out of the window - I'm shocked beyond words right now.

Louis's DeusExMacina bs comeback is the most boring villian revival I have encountered in a long while. Zorban replacing the lance on stage while falsly examinating Louis's body is also just not sound.

Omg I'm actually thinking about quitting - this plot twist killed any tension whatsoever D-: What is wrong with ATLUS? They used to be so good with plot twists! Did they think the story would somehow not work without Louis? ♥♥♥♥, I'm actually angry right now ...

Edit: I actually uninstalled right now, I can't take the plot serious anymore after such lazy writing and I'm not kidding: I'm not interested anymore where the story goes after this. I had that fantastic duel with Louis that was worthy of his build-up and now everything they build up to just evaporated and meant nothing.

[N/A]

Klinestife a écrit :

N/A a écrit :

Pretty sure the spear he walks up on you with is the fake and that Zorbadorp is holding onto the real one so they never have to retrieve it. If Not then yeah that's dumb as hell.

it was the real one. that’s why eupha could summon it in the cutscene after the boss fight.

but most in the thread are forgetting how the spear was found by the church. it fell off by the wayside. everybody is staring at louis’s body. the party isn’t even on stage yet. gideaux walks up while forden is busy being confused and says “this lance was found offstage. it must have been the murder weapon.”

it was swapped before this point while everybody was distracted by louis’s body. zorba was probably the one to bring it to gideaux if anything. it was not swapped on stage in front of everybody. the party only makes it on stage after forden is already holding it in his hands.

as for the whole louis living thing, zorba wields necromantic magic that has no defined rules so it can effectively do whatever the writer wants. that’s how pretty much all of the plot related magic works in this game.

That's magic in fiction in general though lol

It's been hours but I like this explanation.

Swimfan a écrit :

Fine and Dandy a écrit :

The deus ex machina. The deus ex machina? Louis's right hand man is a NECROMANCER. Use your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ brain.

A necromancer I killed during the Prologue tho.
And yes, "coming back" is an okay concept but when you pull this 3 times (Necro 1 times/ Louis fake-dead 2 times) that's just stupid writing in my book.

No no, you didn't kill them you simply helped them overcome their anxiety by encouraging them to do the most epic trust fall ever with their zombie friends.

[shado]

What do you mean? Atlus is finally good like that one tweet said.

[NijimaXL]

Its a twist of a twist. Twistception

[Klinestife]

N/A a écrit :

That's magic in fiction in general though lol

eh, it's been changing in recent years. there's been a growing trend towards "hard magic" (growing too much imo) where magic has defined limits and systems. the newbie entry example would be mistborn, the author of that book pretty much brought the concept into the mainstream. it's not perfect but it does force the writer to write with a little more thought because they can't rely on undefined soft magic to force the story along.

there's a bit of hard magic in this game with the igniters, but even though it's got some interesting worldbuilding implications, they sadly don't really have a story impact past the intro.

[WarBaby2]

Personally, I kinda like the story up until now... it held my attention better then Baldur's Gate 3 and FF16 had, at least, who I both stopped playing somewhere in the middle.

I mean, the "twist" wasn't really one if you pay attention, but the general thenes of the story (clash of idiologies etc.) is still highly compelling to me...

[Sombrero]

That plot twist was really really really dumb I'm sorry it just was.

I would have much preffered if they had the balls to actually kill Louis that easily and the story finished without him. I was actually hyped when they said "he is dead for sure, it can't be a body double".

It also makes Forden's death right after so boring and anti-climactic as a result.

It also makes the situation with the curse very confusing and convoluted. The build-up to the identity of the true curse caster is revealed so quickly after it's just weird.

This plot twist would have worked if Louis died in the prologue and came back later but killing/reviving him in the span of 15m of cutscenes was just soap opera level of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Also I'm sorry but the gigantic DIVINE lance pierced through him and he stayed there in his blood for a WHILE. There is no f**** way he survived this even with whatever healing magic Zorba used.

The suspension of disbelief is just dead in the ditch by that point.

It's a shame because I thought Louis was a really fun villain up to that point. They should have kept him alive and have Forden die and continue on I dunno. This is just goofy.

[Kuusou]

I think finding out what tribe Louis is from and who casted the curse was worth the good twists.

[Nix]

Kuusou a écrit :

I think finding out what tribe Louis is from and who casted the curse was worth the good twists.

I just wish MC could publicize his true tribe afterwards and watch his fervent Clemar supporters lose their minds.

[Αη Ιnτellecτual Tsiραr]

My favorite part was when you find out who the real villain behind the curse is and kill them all in the span of about 10 minutes. I think this game must have gone through several rewrites because the pacing is horrendous towards the end.

[Hearts™]

I was kind of annoyed at Louis villain magicking his way back as well. And I also hate the whole "yeah, I figured out your entire plan because I'm le super smart villain" Death Note logic. But the scenes after that that happen around 9-11 to 9-12 are some of the best stuff in the game.

[JCKLNTRN]

I suspected Zorba would be back at some point, just because major character death off-screen and no body tends to be this sort of fakeout.

As for Louis, if he were killed that easily it would really have been far too anticlimactic, they could have just had it wound him and him escape before he could be finished off. Also that boss fight was far too simple and easy after all the buildup.

[Virtual Lad]

lol

[Comatose Dolphin]

Louis is a much better villain than forden. Louis infact probably overall is stronger than forden.

Forden’s entire thing is the church itself is a way to accumulate magla and exploit it for bad deeds through the anxieties of people , while he is harboring his own fears. Which sounds good, but thats precisely one of the reasons why Louis hates em its oppression by the church for them to do horrible things through the magla they harvest by weak people. You can probably even speculate that the reason why Forden’s magla was apparent during the opera scene because they went the next day and didnt see louis. So he was afraid that his reign was all but uncertain again. So he wanted to end the tournament and try to establish some form of power over the people before Louis sprung up again. It was just a lot sooner than he thought.

Whereas Louis is another side of the MC’s beliefs but would rather test it through darwinism. It gets much better when you take into account he has the same book and wants the same world but believes you are unworthy to live if you cannot confront your anxiety and fears. He wants people to evolve and be stronger if you can do it then youre worthy to live in his utopia of equality, those who get twisted and distorted much like zorba dont interest him because zorba already lost. Zorba follows him and thinks he knows his leader better than the mc but he doesnt. Theres also the fact louis himself only believes this or came to believe it because he no longer trusted people. He feared them or harbored anxieties of complete trust. Two sides of the same coin a lone dissenter in despair and a hopeful hero king with friends striving for similar ends through different means

[Fuhrer]

Passive aggressive babies aside, I feel you 100%, dude. I just got through that portion of the story myself and was shocked at how bad the writing was. Completely nonsensical garbage, I'm astonished they thought that was acceptable.

[AkaRai]

Louis coming back to me was fine because it had been well established his top guy was a Necromancer. Since we're in spoiler territory the bit that bothered me was Rella. That whole segment was terrible. Maybe you didn't get to this part if you cut it off there. The church names Rella (Junah's sister) as Forden's replacement, she instantly gets nearly as much support as Forden had, but then she reveals it was her that put the curse on the prince. Forden just randomly mentioning that the assassin was sliced across the back was really random, if it wasn't him why would he mention it? But then when Rella admits she did it immediately I'm thinking "Where were her wings then?" She's got six wings, Maria's only half that race and she's younger than Rella was when she put the curse on the prince and she already has two little wings, why didn't Rella have any wings in the cut scene? Why isn't there a big scar across her back? Wouldn't it have damaged her wings? Why mention slash across the back if the big reveal isn't going to be seeing a big scar?

Then we get chased out of the city, everybody hates us and right away I'm thinking "There's no way, because I just got to this town. They haven't even let me check the new bounties there yet. Somehow this is getting undone right away." and right before the deadline to face Louis I'd just leveled up two of my virtues simultaneously so I was getting frustrated because I knew I had a bunch of social links to level up, but I got railroaded on this insanely long set of boss fights. I wish I'd kept track of it but I feel like it was five hours of gameplay before I could go to dungeons and all that again. So we're chased out of the city and immediately have to go fight Rella after she makes herself appear evil. So we beat her, and turns out she can psychically communicate to everyone in the kingdom, isn't that convenient? So she gives a big speech about how Forden was a bad guy and everyone should support the main character and then she offs herself. It felt a little too convenient.

Still loving the game, but by that point I was practically screaming at the screen "stop talking, let me control my party again!" That segment just felt rushed.