no switching archetypes on the fly

[Peter_Paradox]

this ♥♥♥♥ really pisses me off.. thankfully the games really forgiving with its restarts/retrys but every single ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ time ive ever needed to not have a "specific" weakness for some boss enemy I ALWAYS HAPPEN TO HAVE IT.. and this snowballs the boss into otherwise impossible.. of course i can just swap that ♥♥♥♥ out upon taking the L and reloading... But the fact our main hero at least cant swap ♥♥♥♥ out on the fly... really irks the ♥♥♥♥ out of me. Its just stupid luck at the end of the day.. your so ham stringed into whatever strategy youve selected for the time... its just a huge waste of my time and kind of "gamey" to just restart the fights over and over till you find the SINGLE weakness an enemy has. And thats another issue all together, you can barely exploit anything meaningfully unless you meta knowledge the fights using the L's you take.. Its a great game, but coming from persona and shin megami this single difference in the game really puts it beneath the former titles. Your grinding for 2 sets of levels as opposed to 1, and your hardly ever going to get meaningful abilities unless you run 2 of the same type of archetype.

[N/A]

Originally posted by Unforgiven:

Originally posted by Peter_Paradox:

every single archetype is underwhelming though.. you only get all of 5 abilities with any one, specialization, or advanced... and at most you can claim 3 other traits from other archetypes to go along with it.. But whats more important is matching the archetypes defenses vs what your fighting, not what abilities the archetype actually gives you as some of them are atrociously bad.. like the brawler... why would i ever want to trade HP for lackluster DPS thats dependent on being low HP..

it's 4 skills you can inherit but i get what you mean, most archetypes are just weak
the assassin tree literally does 0 dmg, faker is super bad until you get trickster because it can only debuff 1 type for 1 lvl while we have cheap consumables that debuff more and trickster is unlocked in like the last 10% of the game.
In general this is my biggest problem with the game, archetypes should all be unlocked in the first 10% of the game and maybe the tier 3 variants in the first 50%, not some of the base versions in the last 30% of the game and the tier 3 versions in the last 10%...
Not to mention ng+ locks all of them away again so you won't ever be able to use tier 3s or berserker for anything except the last 5-6 fights

You want Ninja to do damage and that's not what Ninja specializes in. You don't like it but it's not bad. Ninja is incredibly broken. Third Eye + Knights Proclamation + Dodgers Ring has literally carried me through some of the most difficult fights in the game.

Edit: i tried editing my original post to fit this in so as not to double post but I guess since I qouted first before going to edit it, it let me edit it in then just qouted it twice and made a new post anyway lol thanks steam.

[Unforgiven]

Originally posted by N/A:

Originally posted by Unforgiven:

it's 4 skills you can inherit but i get what you mean, most archetypes are just weak
the assassin tree literally does 0 dmg, faker is super bad until you get trickster because it can only debuff 1 type for 1 lvl while we have cheap consumables that debuff more and trickster is unlocked in like the last 10% of the game.
In general this is my biggest problem with the game, archetypes should all be unlocked in the first 10% of the game and maybe the tier 3 variants in the first 50%, not some of the base versions in the last 30% of the game and the tier 3 versions in the last 10%...
Not to mention ng+ locks all of them away again so you won't ever be able to use tier 3s or berserker for anything except the last 5-6 fights

You want Ninja to do damage and that's not what Ninja specializes in. You don't like it but it's not bad. Ninja is incredibly broken. Third Eye + Knights Proclamation + Dodgers Ring has literally carried me through some of the most difficult fights in the game.

Edit: i tried editing my original post to fit this in so as not to double post but I guess since I qouted first before going to edit it, it let me edit it in then just qouted it twice and made a new post anyway lol thanks steam.

Ninja is literally supposed to deal dmg, it even says that on the class description and all the skills are extreme dmg + high instakill chance (which didn't happen once in my entire playthrough) You can do all that by just using proclamation and barrier and it does the same with half the effort

[N/A]

Originally posted by Unforgiven:

Originally posted by N/A:

You want Ninja to do damage and that's not what Ninja specializes in. You don't like it but it's not bad. Ninja is incredibly broken. Third Eye + Knights Proclamation + Dodgers Ring has literally carried me through some of the most difficult fights in the game.

Edit: i tried editing my original post to fit this in so as not to double post but I guess since I qouted first before going to edit it, it let me edit it in then just qouted it twice and made a new post anyway lol thanks steam.

Ninja is literally supposed to deal dmg, it even says that on the class description and all the skills are extreme dmg + high instakill chance (which didn't happen once in my entire playthrough) You can do all that by just using proclamation and barrier and it does the same with half the effort

Barrier? I don't know what that is but I assume it also makes the enemy lose all it's actions before it can do anything?

You say it's doing zero damage but i'm doing 500 ~ 1000 with it depending on the skills i use which is typical for good physical damage. That huge spike in agility is what the class specializes in. You are complaining that it's not OP and I am telling you it is, it's just not braindead button mashing stupid and has a chance to fail.

The fantasy in this game is not a power fantasy.

[Dogi ( ﾟ ヮﾟ)]

It's DDS/Nocturne style press turn, not Persona. You can't swap skills/weaknesses on the fly there either.

[Jawsofwar]

I must be taking crazy pills since i think there is a ton of different strategies to plan for a boss... (yes there is also the OP Merchant 4x build)

Swapping Archetypes on the fly would make the game too easy.

Buffing and Debuffing like in SMT games is very OP.

FWIW you later get a 5th ally that introduces mechanic where you can swap in a party member in and out of combat. That class also has masks that can switch affinities and skills.

The thing I do agree with is that the archetype menu is a pain in the butt for setting up party wide synthesis skills. Would be nice to have a all party members visible in a menu to set those up easier...

inventory menu outside of combat is a pain in the butt as well. Need more ways of sorting through these items, weapons and armor.

Agree also with over world combat. Some classes are way easier to use than others (Faker and Gunner very easy - warrior and other melee classes can be frustrating)

[Peter_Paradox]

Originally posted by N/A:

Originally posted by Peter_Paradox:

first off you proved my point about archetypes being mostly worthless, having to grind them out just to get a single ability for one single person to use. Not even able to swap them between anyone everywhere. 4 skills is a bit better than the 3 i currently have, guess im not there yet but it still leaves alot to be desired when the skills i need or would expect to have at this stage in the game are easily thousands of magic which take some actual grinding to get. I was wrong about the brawler i guess, but the wording should be more specific since theres instances of both higher hp and lower hp being modifiers to attacks. this game is simply to GRINDY, and if your not willing to exploit the hell out of the game you arent going to get far. Ive completed every quest ive come upon within the time frame up to the island with the 3 eyes. ive completed every single dungeon to that point too, im at gold in the coliseum with like 8 more days to spare before i have to continue to the next island. And everytime i check the "other players" statistics theyre like lvl 50+ and somehow im still lvl 40. And mind you ive gone into dungeouns several times, and farmed the little elemental guys for the free exp. Strohl alone has mastered literally 9 different archetypes... i fully understand how this games works, ITS JUST TO GRINDY. If they made changes to the archetypes so not every single person had to unlock them individually, play an un-skipable cut scene, and the be farmed to lvl 20 to get the one good abillity at the end of the tree.. or the pre-requisite to get another more advanced archetype.. maybe it would be so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dull

[Unforgiven]

Originally posted by N/A:

Originally posted by Unforgiven:

Ninja is literally supposed to deal dmg, it even says that on the class description and all the skills are extreme dmg + high instakill chance (which didn't happen once in my entire playthrough) You can do all that by just using proclamation and barrier and it does the same with half the effort

Barrier? I don't know what that is but I assume it also makes the enemy lose all it's actions before it can do anything?

You say it's doing zero damage but i'm doing 500 ~ 1000 with it depending on the skills i use which is typical for good physical damage. That huge spike in agility is what the class specializes in. You are complaining that it's not OP and I am telling you it is, it's just not braindead button mashing stupid and has a chance to fail.

The fantasy in this game is not a power fantasy.

Yes it repels, therefore making them lose all turns and it's 100% and not rng
1k dmg is nothing in this game, my elemental master is hitting for 17k, even my summoner does 7k
Physical in general is super weak in this game, needs fullbuffs to hit mediocre numbers while mage casts hyper and does a billion dmg and the physical equivalent of hyper isn't nearly as strong
With 1k dmg you'd probably fight the last bosses for an hour or smth lol, they have 40-50k hp

[OshinoArarougi]

They should add a system where you should be able to switch archetypes right before a battle begins, and right after you click "retry".

[Unforgiven]

Originally posted by Jawsofwar:

I must be taking crazy pills since i think there is a ton of different strategies to plan for a boss... (yes there is also the OP Merchant 4x build)

Swapping Archetypes on the fly would make the game too easy.

Buffing and Debuffing like in SMT games is very OP.

FWIW you later get a 5th ally that introduces mechanic where you can swap in a party member in and out of combat. That class also has masks that can switch affinities and skills.

The thing I do agree with is that the archetype menu is a pain in the butt for setting up party wide synthesis skills. Would be nice to have a all party members visible in a menu to set those up easier...

inventory menu outside of combat is a pain in the butt as well. Need more ways of sorting through these items, weapons and armor.

Agree also with over world combat. Some classes are way easier to use than others (Faker and Gunner very easy - warrior and other melee classes can be frustrating)

just out of curiosity, which boss except the fire dragon who happens to cast an aoe charm every 3rd and a wipe attack every 4th turn requires planning in this game?

[Peter_Paradox]

anyways im dropping the game the cast of players are cool, i like that we have the mask chick WHO SHOULD have been the "swap" in and out on the fly person, but they ♥♥♥♥♥♥ it up and made it an inventory screen thing rather than in combat thing. the summoner is p cool being able to introduce elements of wide variations. These clear up my grievances, albeit slightly. But the inventory management of this game and certain types having access to only certain equipment outside of the weapon they use.. is unforgivably tedious. i cant put this shirt on this guy cause they wear heavy armor in this form but not cloth vestments on this other form, but this guy who i want to be this class cant wear these shoes with this shirt.. its daft.

and i have to do that for every ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ archetype per person, and it reserves or locks equipment from others. Like honestly, just let me put whatever the ♥♥♥♥ i want equipment/clothing wise on my guys and let the weapons be the sole defining feature.

The biggest problem I have with this game overall though, and the reason for my dropping it. Not having enough information to go on as you play through it the first time around. Experimentation is cool and fun, but not having a clearly visible path of all the future archetypes of a tree once the base form is unlocked.. is really a hindrance. Because you need to try multiple types to see what you like on who, or to shore up weakness of they’re “natural type” and you end up with dozens of types to manage all at once per person. When the real type you want to assign to someone is locked behind 2/3 others that you didint happen to build them down.. because the further forms are hidden until you unlock the prior, and it’s not something that would’ve made a ton of sense on the fly. Like mage needing assassin. I think if I went through the game again I would save my archetype exp items a bit more despite being able to farm them easily. Because it’s just a mess to look at and strategize, and I don’t have the time to do all that every new zone.

[Unforgiven]

Originally posted by Peter_Paradox:

anyways im dropping the game the cast of players are cool, i like that we have the mask chick WHO SHOULD have been the "swap" in and out on the fly person, but they ♥♥♥♥♥♥ it up and made it an inventory screen thing rather than in combat thing. the summoner is p cool being able to introduce elements of wide variations. These clear up my grievances, albeit slightly. But the inventory management of this game and certain types having access to only certain equipment outside of the weapon they use.. is unforgivably tedious. i cant put this shirt on this guy cause they wear heavy armor in this form but not cloth vestments on this other form, but this guy who i want to be this class cant wear these shoes with this shirt.. its daft.

and i have to do that for every ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ archetype per person, and it reserves or locks equipment from others. Like honestly, just let me put whatever the ♥♥♥♥ i want equipment/clothing wise on my guys and let the weapons be the sole defining feature.

The biggest problem I have with this game overall though, and the reason for my dropping it. Not having enough information to go on as you play through it the first time around. Experimentation is cool and fun, but not having a clearly visible path of all the future archetypes of a tree once the base form is unlocked.. is really a hindrance. Because you need to try multiple types to see what you like on who, or to shore up weakness of they’re “natural type” and you end up with dozens of types to manage all at once per person. When the real type you want to assign to someone is locked behind 2/3 others that you didint happen to build them down.. because the further forms are hidden until you unlock the prior, and it’s not something that would’ve made a ton of sense on the fly. Like mage needing assassin. I think if I went through the game again I would save my archetype exp items a bit more despite being able to farm them easily. Because it’s just a mess to look at and strategize, and I don’t have the time to do all that every new zone.

uhh what, you can swap characters in and out of battle after you get her
But i agree the 0 information thing and not having respec is a real joy killer

[Peter_Paradox]

Originally posted by Unforgiven:

Originally posted by Jawsofwar:

I must be taking crazy pills since i think there is a ton of different strategies to plan for a boss... (yes there is also the OP Merchant 4x build)

Swapping Archetypes on the fly would make the game too easy.

Buffing and Debuffing like in SMT games is very OP.

FWIW you later get a 5th ally that introduces mechanic where you can swap in a party member in and out of combat. That class also has masks that can switch affinities and skills.

The thing I do agree with is that the archetype menu is a pain in the butt for setting up party wide synthesis skills. Would be nice to have a all party members visible in a menu to set those up easier...

inventory menu outside of combat is a pain in the butt as well. Need more ways of sorting through these items, weapons and armor.

Agree also with over world combat. Some classes are way easier to use than others (Faker and Gunner very easy - warrior and other melee classes can be frustrating)

just out of curiosity, which boss except the fire dragon who happens to cast an aoe charm every 3rd and a wipe attack every 4th turn requires planning in this game?

Most enemy’s televise when they’re going to do a strong move yes. But I’m not talking about boss monsters. There are plenty of regulars on hard like the buff goblins who can instant give themselves several turns buff to full, and then kill you. It’s not a once off occurrence, and these types of enemy’s start to appear everywhere. Yes they’re supposed to be “boss-esque” enemy’s. And you’re forced to fight them because they’re typically higher level than the other monsters you would have surpassed already in the area. And if you want to get decent EXP you need to fight those. Otherwise you have to farm elementals, and that’s just as tedious.

[Peter_Paradox]

[/quote]
uhh what, you can swap characters in and out of battle after you get her
But i agree the 0 information thing and not having respec is a real joy killer [/quote]
I’m aware you can do that yeah. But it costs a turn, or half? And yeah that help if everyone was unanimously different in what they can bring to a fight. But a lot of the classes without the expecting of mage don’t have access to many differing forms of attack elements. Discounting any weapons you put on with extra effects, or skills inherited by others. Which again, lands me in the pitfall of feeling like I need everyone to learn as much as possible so everyone can so I don’t overly specialize someone. Again, hindsight is 20/20 and I think it’s just easy to get lost a first time through. No telling if I’ll come back though.

[N/A]

Originally posted by Unforgiven:

Originally posted by N/A:

Barrier? I don't know what that is but I assume it also makes the enemy lose all it's actions before it can do anything?

You say it's doing zero damage but i'm doing 500 ~ 1000 with it depending on the skills i use which is typical for good physical damage. That huge spike in agility is what the class specializes in. You are complaining that it's not OP and I am telling you it is, it's just not braindead button mashing stupid and has a chance to fail.

The fantasy in this game is not a power fantasy.

Yes it repels, therefore making them lose all turns and it's 100% and not rng
1k dmg is nothing in this game, my elemental master is hitting for 17k, even my summoner does 7k
Physical in general is super weak in this game, needs fullbuffs to hit mediocre numbers while mage casts hyper and does a billion dmg and the physical equivalent of hyper isn't nearly as strong
With 1k dmg you'd probably fight the last bosses for an hour or smth lol, they have 40-50k hp

This is so damb petty but you need to understand some things, I am not talking down to you, I am trying to help you.

I still don't know what barrier is and reflect only takes two actions but that's beside the point so lets just drop that ok?

The only skill that has a chance to insta kill is Assassins Assassinate and it says it may kill not that it has a high chance, for all we know it's low. So unless you inherited Assassinate from Assassin none of Ninjas moves are ever going to insta kill.

Then you have it's Physical Skills. The first two tiers skills do weak physical damage and the last tier Ninja does medium physical damage not severe or extreme. The fact that all Ninjas physical skills are locked in those brackets are why they do so little damage but they can do 500 ~ 1000 damage which is good for skills in those brackets, if that's not good enough for you then inherit slash boost and rising slash from the warriors line and charge from berserker.

Then you have the dark element skills. Assassinate and Adamant Nightblade do heavy physical dark damage. These are your best skills. I don't know if they scale off of physical or magic because my stats are even but they are doing plenty of damage for me. Just because people are saying synthesis skills do 10k dmg doesn't mean that your damage sucks if it's not 10k. There's just one skill that does that and it's a stand-out skill that you have to work for.

Originally posted by Peter_Paradox:

Originally posted by N/A:

first off you proved my point about archetypes being mostly worthless, having to grind them out just to get a single ability for one single person to use. Not even able to swap them between anyone everywhere. 4 skills is a bit better than the 3 i currently have, guess im not there yet but it still leaves alot to be desired when the skills i need or would expect to have at this stage in the game are easily thousands of magic which take some actual grinding to get. I was wrong about the brawler i guess, but the wording should be more specific since theres instances of both higher hp and lower hp being modifiers to attacks. this game is simply to GRINDY, and if your not willing to exploit the hell out of the game you arent going to get far. Ive completed every quest ive come upon within the time frame up to the island with the 3 eyes. ive completed every single dungeon to that point too, im at gold in the coliseum with like 8 more days to spare before i have to continue to the next island. And everytime i check the "other players" statistics theyre like lvl 50+ and somehow im still lvl 40. And mind you ive gone into dungeouns several times, and farmed the little elemental guys for the free exp. Strohl alone has mastered literally 9 different archetypes... i fully understand how this games works, ITS JUST TO GRINDY. If they made changes to the archetypes so not every single person had to unlock them individually, play an un-skipable cut scene, and the be farmed to lvl 20 to get the one good abillity at the end of the tree.. or the pre-requisite to get another more advanced archetype.. maybe it would be so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dull

Edit: (This is me N/A. I have no idea why steam is letting me put words in other peoples mouths but they shouldn't. This should be outside the qoute box.)
I'll agree that it's too grindy but we will have to agree to disagree on archetypes being mostly useless.

[OshinoArarougi]

The small mobs are easier than the small mobs were in Persona games, but it makes up for it by making the larger mobs and bosses extremely inconvenient for you to be required to die or reload before your ACTUALLY able to prepare for the boss. You have to die at least once before you actually know how to be prepared. Bad battle direction. Persona games eliminated that by having easily switchable Personas and allies. It's definitely more SMT like in terms of battle