So much unnecesary dialogue

[Gonsnakex]

I like the game and for the most part I am enjoying it but sometimes there is too much dialogue man, its just annoying. It doesn't help either that you cant even save at times resulting in lost progress if you quit

Seriously, Atlus needs to tone down so much dialogue, I get it, this an jrpg but there has to be a limit

[REBirthTheEdge]

Publicado originalmente por Griever:

Publicado originalmente por REBirthTheEdge:

I honestly don't think so, FFX is ton of dialogs, and FFXVI itself is criticized by muh cutscenes.

It's really different strokes for different folks.

Then again, I see people complaining about reading in every games that have it, including last year's Warhammer 40K Rogue Trader.

You're comparing apples and oranges.
And I'm someone who put 100+ hours in every FF game.
"Too many cutscenes" is completely different than "too much useless text".
FFXVI is a cinematic game where every cutscene is action packed and like a A+ movie.
It's a different type of criticism. FFXVI is like Metal Gear Solid 2 basically. It's a cinematic heavy game, but the criticism of Metaphor is different, it's a game that overwhelms you with many useless mechanics that actively detract from the game.

And mind you, behind it all, I like the game.
I just think it's like a Steak with too much fat that hasn't been cut off, and would be better served without it.

Eh, you say it yourself, different strokes for different folks.

I want RPG with heavy dialogs, especially when it comes to characters I like. And I don't mind the cutscenes of FFXVI either.

A game should never be afraid to tell its story, nowadays too many people want the lean meat, when that is damaging to storytelling, you gotta give rooms for characters to breath.

Publicado originalmente por Clown Reemus:

Publicado originalmente por causality:

The irony of it all.

OP hates reading but enjoys writing a lot. :cuphead:

We have some standards and self-respect and require our games to have effort put into them. If the only way a game can tell a story is 3 hours of generic, very straightforward cutscenes... it's not for us.

Please point to the 3 hours generic cutscenes in this game, hyperbole, no?

[Griever]

Publicado originalmente por REBirthTheEdge:

Eh, you say it yourself, different strokes for different folks.

I want RPG with heavy dialogs, especially when it comes to characters I like. And I don't mind the cutscenes of FFXVI either.

A game should never be afraid to tell its story, nowadays too many people want the lean meat, when that is damaging to storytelling, you gotta give rooms for characters to breath.

I respect your POV of course if you enjoy that part of the game, fine.
It's all subjective. But I do think less is more when it comes to quality of a story.
For example, I recently played what could be considered the opposite system with NieR Replicant, the game basically tells you nothing to the point where you have to research stuff online to understand the plot. And yet it creates an extremely evocative setting that I find to be masterful (the game is messed up with the side quests and repetitive gameplay but that's something else).

[Clown Reemus]

Publicado originalmente por Griever:

Publicado originalmente por REBirthTheEdge:

Eh, you say it yourself, different strokes for different folks.

I want RPG with heavy dialogs, especially when it comes to characters I like. And I don't mind the cutscenes of FFXVI either.

A game should never be afraid to tell its story, nowadays too many people want the lean meat, when that is damaging to storytelling, you gotta give rooms for characters to breath.


Please point to the 3 hours generic cutscenes in this game, hyperbole, no?

I respect your POV of course if you enjoy that part of the game, fine.
It's all subjective. But I do think less is more when it comes to quality of a story.
For example, I recently played what could be considered the opposite system with NieR Replicant, the game basically tells you nothing to the point where you have to research stuff online to understand the plot. And yet it creates an extremely evocative setting that I find to be masterful (the game is messed up with the side quests and repetitive gameplay but that's something else).

You should have just told him how it is - he is too inexperienced to see how low-effort and low-quality the vast majority of Refantazio content is. It's for children 15-20 year old, who have only consumed mediocre Japanese fantasies until now.

[Theos]

lol you call this a lot? I've seen worse.

[Griever]

Publicado originalmente por Clown Reemus:

You should have just told him how it is - he is too inexperienced to see how low-effort and low-quality the vast majority of Refantazio content is. It's for children 15-20 year old, who have only consumed mediocre Japanese fantasies until now.

I'll be honest, I can't rate the game fully because I have about 20 hours in it.
But so far, as someone who likes political ideas and thinking, I'm enjoying the political philosophy theme of the game. I wouldn't call it the most baffling and compelling writing in gaming, but it does meet the criteria of why I bought that game.

But I would say people expecting something more exciting and compelling with more action packed gameplay would be very disappointed.

I still think so far that Final Fantasy games feel more AAA than these Atlus games, but idk.
It does feel to me that this is truly Atlus' first game in the fantasy JRPG genre, it shows somewhat.

[REBirthTheEdge]

Publicado originalmente por Clown Reemus:

Publicado originalmente por Griever:

I respect your POV of course if you enjoy that part of the game, fine.
It's all subjective. But I do think less is more when it comes to quality of a story.
For example, I recently played what could be considered the opposite system with NieR Replicant, the game basically tells you nothing to the point where you have to research stuff online to understand the plot. And yet it creates an extremely evocative setting that I find to be masterful (the game is messed up with the side quests and repetitive gameplay but that's something else).

You should have just told him how it is - he is too inexperienced to see how low-effort and low-quality the vast majority of Refantazio content is. It's for children 15-20 year old, who have only consumed mediocre Japanese fantasies until now.

I have seen the West's best attempt of fantasy i.e. Lord of the Rings.

While it remains one of my favorite piece of media, I wouldn't take it over anime & manga, or Asian fantasy/historical fiction.

[REBirthTheEdge]

Publicado originalmente por Griever:

Publicado originalmente por Clown Reemus:

You should have just told him how it is - he is too inexperienced to see how low-effort and low-quality the vast majority of Refantazio content is. It's for children 15-20 year old, who have only consumed mediocre Japanese fantasies until now.

I'll be honest, I can't rate the game fully because I have about 20 hours in it.
But so far, as someone who likes political ideas and thinking, I'm enjoying the political philosophy theme of the game. I wouldn't call it the most baffling and compelling writing in gaming, but it does meet the criteria of why I bought that game.

But I would say people expecting something more exciting and compelling with more action packed gameplay would be very disappointed.

I still think so far that Final Fantasy games feel more AAA than these Atlus games, but idk.
It does feel to me that this is truly Atlus' first game in the fantasy JRPG genre, it shows somewhat.

Atlus games aren't AAA.

They are proudly AA (costing lesser than 100 million USD to make).

And they should stay that way.

[Jargous]

If people want action packed gameplay, wouldn't a game like Ys be up their alley? Heck if Persona 5 Strikers was ever on sale, I'd recommend that to them. P5S is heavily underrated because it has the Musou stigma behind it.

FF series is quite cinematic, but the gameplay tends to suffer as a result. It's still struggling at its ATB system. They have made strides, but even Square Enix admits it cannot solely rely on FF alone, Atlus and Falcom being have clearly shown the success of their other franchises.

There's only so much action you can get off a turn based system from exploiting weaknesses, status effects and synthesis attacks. Don't forget that there are now attacks that ignore resistances, and support skills that inflict weaknesses.

As for this game being dialogue heavy, to an extent yes, but the atmosphere created shows how each major city operates and continuously highlights the competition and shows the changes in the story. It's better than having a town where all you see is multiple npcs with '...' for interaction. As for the scenes, characters each have their own personality, whether it be snarky, arrogant, or straight-forward.

The fact that we have a plethora of JRPG options from at least 2 years ago and still going, we have a lot of options to choose on what to enjoy, and the competition for best JRPGs is only getting tougher onwards.

[Clown Reemus]

Publicado originalmente por Griever:

Publicado originalmente por Clown Reemus:

You should have just told him how it is - he is too inexperienced to see how low-effort and low-quality the vast majority of Refantazio content is. It's for children 15-20 year old, who have only consumed mediocre Japanese fantasies until now.

I'll be honest, I can't rate the game fully because I have about 20 hours in it.
But so far, as someone who likes political ideas and thinking, I'm enjoying the political philosophy theme of the game. I wouldn't call it the most baffling and compelling writing in gaming, but it does meet the criteria of why I bought that game.

But I would say people expecting something more exciting and compelling with more action packed gameplay would be very disappointed.

I still think so far that Final Fantasy games feel more AAA than these Atlus games, but idk.
It does feel to me that this is truly Atlus' first game in the fantasy JRPG genre, it shows somewhat.

I'm with you - I can appreciate the game playing with political philosophy and stuff. But they dedicate almost zero effort beyond playing with it. There isn't a deep thought put into all of that, it's just the generic kind of Japanese "power of friendship"-type of game. You will eventually get to this realisation, if you make it through the tons of empty dialogues. I couldn't, so I went to finish it on the wiki.

It's by no means a bad game. Good production values, a lot of assets. But it's nothing groundbreaking, and every time I see another Japanese game that doesn't even try to push boundaries of interactive fiction I'm just saddened.

[Clown Reemus]

Publicado originalmente por REBirthTheEdge:

Publicado originalmente por Clown Reemus:

You should have just told him how it is - he is too inexperienced to see how low-effort and low-quality the vast majority of Refantazio content is. It's for children 15-20 year old, who have only consumed mediocre Japanese fantasies until now.

I have seen the West's best attempt of fantasy i.e. Lord of the Rings.

While it remains one of my favorite piece of media, I wouldn't take it over anime & manga, or Asian fantasy/historical fiction.

If you put all the titles within these categories next to each other without any regard to their individual quality, you just force me to invoke the "inexperienced" bit again.

[Jargous]

Publicado originalmente por Clown Reemus:

I'm with you - I can appreciate the game playing with political philosophy and stuff. But they dedicate almost zero effort beyond playing with it. There isn't a deep thought put into all of that, it's just the generic kind of Japanese "power of friendship"-type of game. You will eventually get to this realisation, if you make it through the tons of empty dialogues. I couldn't, so I went to finish it on the wiki.

It's by no means a bad game. Good production values, a lot of assets. But it's nothing groundbreaking, and every time I see another Japanese game that doesn't even try to push boundaries of interactive fiction I'm just saddened.

Not sure if it can be found on the Playstation Store, there is a pretty old game (it's more of a visual novel) called Tears to Tiara 2: Heir to the Overlord (PS3). That game really pushes it. A great story, that's if you can handle the hours of visual novels, but there is a strategic JRPG and it is by no means easy at all.

[REBirthTheEdge]

Publicado originalmente por Clown Reemus:

Publicado originalmente por REBirthTheEdge:

I have seen the West's best attempt of fantasy i.e. Lord of the Rings.

While it remains one of my favorite piece of media, I wouldn't take it over anime & manga, or Asian fantasy/historical fiction.

If you put all the titles within these categories next to each other without any regard to their individual quality, you just force me to invoke the "inexperienced" bit again.

I actually think I have read some of the greatest ever told stories myself.

And no, for western fantasy, LOTR it is, and probably Warhammer Fantasy, but that one is grimdark LOTR either ways.

[AkaRai]

There are points where it feels like I'm just clicking skip over and over for hours on end and have no control over my actions. It's amplified because when I finally do regain control I'm given a mission with a time limit and then instantly bombarded by requests. Like "Oh, I have ten days, and three of my followers have all popped up with their upgrade dialog and each of those will eat a day, so that's three days gone right away. Oh and day four will be the sale day, and then I have to tackle that quest that I need to travel five days for and hope I'm able to get back before the time limit passes."

I'm just pressing forward trying to get to the dungeons which are the fun part of the game, but then if I get there and discover my setup is exactly what won't work in the dungeon I'm in and it took me three days to get there. That's why all of these quality of life things like hitting L stick to restart fights and being able to swap party members and archetypes on the fly feels so essential.

[Clown Reemus]

Publicado originalmente por Jargous:

Publicado originalmente por Clown Reemus:

I'm with you - I can appreciate the game playing with political philosophy and stuff. But they dedicate almost zero effort beyond playing with it. There isn't a deep thought put into all of that, it's just the generic kind of Japanese "power of friendship"-type of game. You will eventually get to this realisation, if you make it through the tons of empty dialogues. I couldn't, so I went to finish it on the wiki.

It's by no means a bad game. Good production values, a lot of assets. But it's nothing groundbreaking, and every time I see another Japanese game that doesn't even try to push boundaries of interactive fiction I'm just saddened.

Not sure if it can be found on the Playstation Store, there is a pretty old game (it's more of a visual novel) called Tears to Tiara 2: Heir to the Overlord (PS3). That game really pushes it. A great story, that's if you can handle the hours of visual novels, but there is a strategic JRPG and it is by no means easy at all.

Gave it a read, the story and themes seem close to my favourite (and probably only) JRPG of Agarest Senki. But I feel like I'm one step away from ceasing to be the target audience for most of Japanese media. The lack of grounded approach and refinement just pushes me away. For every one title I want to authentically commend there are nine that just push me into despair for the macrocosm. It doesn't get any better if I look westward. I'm just comprehensively trapped.

[REBirthTheEdge]

Publicado originalmente por AkaRai:

There are points where it feels like I'm just clicking skip over and over for hours on end and have no control over my actions. It's amplified because when I finally do regain control I'm given a mission with a time limit and then instantly bombarded by requests. Like "Oh, I have ten days, and three of my followers have all popped up with their upgrade dialog and each of those will eat a day, so that's three days gone right away. Oh and day four will be the sale day, and then I have to tackle that quest that I need to travel five days for and hope I'm able to get back before the time limit passes."

I'm just pressing forward trying to get to the dungeons which are the fun part of the game, but then if I get there and discover my setup is exactly what won't work in the dungeon I'm in and it took me three days to get there. That's why all of these quality of life things like hitting L stick to restart fights and being able to swap party members and archetypes on the fly feels so essential.

The best thing I can tell you is to restart the game and start to pay attention to the dialogs.

Going too fast will negatively affect things.

Read, breath and calm down.