Almost finished the game, eight years of hype... for this?

[Sid]

Like, what were they doing for eight years developing and writing this 'game'?

Is Hashino a hack, whose older games were only good thanks to the talents of others?

The game is dull and tedious, but I feel compelled to finish it because I live in a third-world country where buying a game is a luxury, so I need to get my money’s worth.

I'm curious to hear from others who felt disappointed by this highly praised and rated game. What exactly went on during its development since it was revealed in 2016?

The game's pacing is awful, and it's surprisingly short (which is almost a plus for a bad game, I guess?). It basically has four main dungeons—the Tower, the Baby, the Temple, and the Final Dungeon—with three others that feel more like 15-minute fillers. You spend around 80% of the game relying on basic archetypes (you only get access to MP regeneration after obtaining the Singer companion, so you’re mostly forced to use the Brawler and save MP for healing). There are side dungeons, but they feel more like Persona 5's Mementos, so it’s hard to even count them as full dungeons. Persona 5 had twice as much content in comparison(not to mention P5 dungeons were much better when it comes to design).

You don’t even get the last two companions (or three, technically) until just before the final dungeon, meaning 75% of the game is spent with the starting trio. Honestly, I don’t see why they even bothered adding them so late in the game.

The entire story revolves around racism, and aside from a few side quests (like collecting bugs or buying a toothbrush), nearly every character and problem involves someone being racist or a victim of racism (with occasional blame on the church or tradition). Almost all the social link episodes deal with racism or oppression. Speaking of social links, there are only 14 compared to the 23 in Persona 5 Royal, and they’re shorter too. There’s no real depth to the characters; it’s either racism or, well, more racism.

The characters feel poorly written, with villains who are either stupid (the main ones) or pathetic and stupid (the side ones).

The art and music are decent, though.

Honestly, I could go on and on.

It really feels like Hashino is a hack; Metaphor is just a weaker Persona clone, and all he managed was to recycle Persona—but in a worse way.

[Johnathon Fortnite]

Originally posted by nephalim:

I just gave up in the Dragon Temple, which is a serious slog. Tedius, boring characters, slow and dull overall story, bad repetitive music, the job system just doesn't work.
It started off ok but the game just felt like it went nowhere.

And this was my experience too minus getting to the dragon temple lmao. And going by the spoilers I've seen, I'm glad i stopped. Wish i could have a refund but playstation and refunds lmao. Literally impossible to get a digital refund.

[Overeagerdragon]

Originally posted by Johnathon Fortnite:

Originally posted by Sid:

When it comes to production value, Final Fantasy XVI arguably has some of the best cinematic cutscenes ever created for a video game. Metaphor, on the other hand, features anime-style cutscenes that fall short, even when compared to Persona 5. The late-game cutscenes in Metaphor are nearly static, with a quality that rivals famous anime like Mars of Destruction.

The production value, however, is debatable, as Final Fantasy XVI’s budget is rumored to be around $59 million. This is low for a AAA title and likely not much higher than Metaphor’s.

The main difference is probably that Final Fantasy XVI had real talent behind it, while Studio Zero’s work on Metaphor feels like an attempt to copy Persona (and make it worse) in a medieval setting.

I think both are good in their own regards but for me ff16 was just better in everyway lol. Metaphor would've been better if the gameplay was more than just ambush enemy instant win or die
And bosses for me were either stupidly hard (necromancer guy) or stupidly easy (boss baby)

Something about the game just disappointed me mega hard when I got past baby and into the boss rush ship. Completely destroyed my entertainment and I ended up just not going back.

Idk how the people from persona and smt (despite my grievances with smt) made their gameplay so unnaturally uninteresting. Was this not the same studio that made p5, 4 3 smt v etc?

I'm not going to deny the combat is fairly flat with you either ambushing the enemy and winning (provided you don't F'up) or you getting ambushed and getting wiped... even in P5 it wasn't this grievous... instead; P5 had ways to make combat far from a one-sided slog and SMT5 was even better in this regard.... P5R and SMT5:V had the more interesting story too even if it was hammed in at some points. I DO like the more open ended nature of ReFantazio and it offering way more options to increase the MC "core" stats; I felt way less cornered into following a single direction and the game feels less linear as a result.

It's obvious Atlus tried something new with Refantazio and I like the idea of the concept of exploring matters of the heart (or conviction) being explored next to the SMT/Persona series exploring matters of character...

In a way I see this game like something as Makai Kingdom or La Pucelle in relations with Disgaea; there's a lot you will recognise and a lot you will enjoy but "it's just not disgaea" as much as this game is "it's just not Persona/SMT"

[Johnathon Fortnite]

Originally posted by Overeagerdragon:

Originally posted by Johnathon Fortnite:

I think both are good in their own regards but for me ff16 was just better in everyway lol. Metaphor would've been better if the gameplay was more than just ambush enemy instant win or die
And bosses for me were either stupidly hard (necromancer guy) or stupidly easy (boss baby)

Something about the game just disappointed me mega hard when I got past baby and into the boss rush ship. Completely destroyed my entertainment and I ended up just not going back.

Idk how the people from persona and smt (despite my grievances with smt) made their gameplay so unnaturally uninteresting. Was this not the same studio that made p5, 4 3 smt v etc?

I'm not going to deny the combat is fairly flat with you either ambushing the enemy and winning (provided you don't F'up) or you getting ambushed and getting wiped... even in P5 it wasn't this grievous... instead; P5 had ways to make combat far from a one-sided slog and SMT5 was even better in this regard.... P5R and SMT5:V had the more interesting story too even if it was hammed in at some points. I DO like the more open ended nature of ReFantazio and it offering way more options to increase the MC "core" stats; I felt way less cornered into following a single direction and the game feels less linear as a result.

It's obvious Atlus tried something new with Refantazio and I like the idea of the concept of exploring matters of the heart (or conviction) being explored next to the SMT/Persona series exploring matters of character...

In a way I see this game like something as Makai Kingdom or La Pucelle in relations with Disgaea; there's a lot you will recognise and a lot you will enjoy but "it's just not disgaea" as much as this game is "it's just not Persona/SMT"

Yeah i really badly wanted to like it but i just kept finding more things to be pissed over. I'm not buying from atlus anymore to say the least lol. Trails in the sky came out 20 years ago and was more complicated and engaging lol

Even xenoblade 3 was imo lmao

[cc chan]

Originally posted by Sid:

Like, what were they doing for eight years developing and writing this 'game'?

Is Hashino a hack, whose older games were only good thanks to the talents of others?

The game is dull and tedious, but I feel compelled to finish it because I live in a third-world country where buying a game is a luxury, so I need to get my money’s worth.

I'm curious to hear from others who felt disappointed by this highly praised and rated game. What exactly went on during its development since it was revealed in 2016?

The game's pacing is awful, and it's surprisingly short (which is almost a plus for a bad game, I guess?). It basically has four main dungeons—the Tower, the Baby, the Temple, and the Final Dungeon—with three others that feel more like 15-minute fillers. You spend around 80% of the game relying on basic archetypes (you only get access to MP regeneration after obtaining the Singer companion, so you’re mostly forced to use the Brawler and save MP for healing). There are side dungeons, but they feel more like Persona 5's Mementos, so it’s hard to even count them as full dungeons. Persona 5 had twice as much content in comparison(not to mention P5 dungeons were much better when it comes to design).

You don’t even get the last two companions (or three, technically) until just before the final dungeon, meaning 75% of the game is spent with the starting trio. Honestly, I don’t see why they even bothered adding them so late in the game.

The entire story revolves around racism, and aside from a few side quests (like collecting bugs or buying a toothbrush), nearly every character and problem involves someone being racist or a victim of racism (with occasional blame on the church or tradition). Almost all the social link episodes deal with racism or oppression. Speaking of social links, there are only 14 compared to the 23 in Persona 5 Royal, and they’re shorter too. There’s no real depth to the characters; it’s either racism or, well, more racism.

The characters feel poorly written, with villains who are either stupid (the main ones) or pathetic and stupid (the side ones).

The art and music are decent, though.

Honestly, I could go on and on.

It really feels like Hashino is a hack; Metaphor is just a weaker Persona clone, and all he managed was to recycle Persona—but in a worse way.

I think your take on the story and its characters is a pretty wild reduction. The game's thesis is essentially "what does a better world look like?" How do we solve complex problems? Is there a correct answer? It uses the power of fantasy to examine these issues.

Since that's the game's thesis, it makes sense that most of the stories we see are tied to it--they're thematically coherent. If you don't like the exploration of these themes, which it sounds like you don't, it makes sense that you are so upset with the game.

That said, each bond character is not just "racism," they are suffering in an imperfect society (with the looming question being "is there such thing as a perfect society?") and we follow different threads within Metaphor's established world.

Here are some very simplified takes on the Followers that are more complex than "they all are racism":

Strohl is a noble of insignificance--a rural lord--but we see his definition of nobility as shaped by his initial view of his parents, to after he lost them, to him stepping into the type of noble that is a shield for his people.

Hulkenberg is the epitome of devoted knight who failed her charge. The disgrace and internal turmoil brought on by this nearly destroys her, but we see her navigate knighthood and oaths of the past that are her strength but also her weakness.

Heismay is a parent mourning the early death of his child. His story is about sorrow and losing hope and seeking his own destruction as a means to repent for his failings; as a knight himself, there is overlap with Hulkenberg. This story is, of course, complicated by the discrimination he faced, and we even see the Shadowguard represented in Hulkenberg's story as well as a means of further tightening the connection between their paths.

Catherina's story is in one part about race, but it's far more in line with class struggles and trying to even build up the foundations for what it takes to rise above poverty.

Bardon's story is about trust in the people; earning it with his actions, losing it with his actions, but never wavering in his dedication to service, which ultimately highlights the unfair burden his town placed upon his shoulders (an over reliance and expectation of perfection).

My point being, yes, there is thematic resonance between the narratives and the game's central theme. That is cohesive and powerful and a sign of thoughtful writing. Utopia isn't the only theme, of course, there are others (like Fantasy, capital F), but if you aren't a fan of the core message, that's okay. If you thought the plot was bad, that's an argument you're more than welcome to make. Lastly, just because something is celebrated or received well doesn't mean you have to be a fan, too, you can hate it haha. That said, I think the way you've portrayed some of these criticisms makes it very easy to illustrate why your opinion differs from the praise the game has received.

[Musclebob Buffpants]

Originally posted by nephalim:

I just gave up in the Dragon Temple, which is a serious slog. Tedius, boring characters, slow and dull overall story, bad repetitive music, the job system just doesn't work.
It started off ok but the game just felt like it went nowhere.

^

[Xeerz]

I dunno, maybe i'm a simple man that just needs simple themes. But the overal story felt coherent and fluid and I liked the idea that your on a journey of discovery instead of being stuck in a city with a school being pretty much a detective on the job.

I'm also happy its short and has a more streamlined combat system going for it and added the bit where you can bonk them in the overworld for xp/coins after reaching a certain level. That felt so bloody good and I hope they keep that in whatever production comes next.

First atlus game I managed to finish, P4G and P5 both drag on and on and on and I just stop playing cause its freakingly furstrating. But, now that I finished this, my interest is sparked anew and i'll prolly tackle those two games again at one point.

Also what cc chan said.