I HATE the Produce Scale

[roninpawn]

In every way, the scale part of produce is bad.

Is it realistic? No. I've never seen this setup in the real world. IRL, weighing is done at checkout... because of course it is. Who would pay an employee to stand at a scale all day, printing the same 20 produce codes onto costly label sheets? They wouldn't. Because the cashier can just look at what you've got, and code it at the register.

Is it intuitive? No. The first customer I checked out using the scale took 45 seconds, because I first tried typing in EVERY piece of information on the scale's screen - getting more and more frustrated with each failed attempt. "What do you WANT ME TO PUT IN, GAME?!" Only to have to be told by someone who already knew (in my livestream chat) that I was supposed to type in the produce number that was ALREADY PRINTED ON THE brown paper BAG?! That's about as unintuitive as it could possibly be!

And it's another point against the scale, in the 'realism' column!

Is it a fun mechanic? No. It's busy work, tacked on to justify having more types of people to hire. It isn't fun. It isn't fluid. It's a nuisance. And the overhead of buying-in and hiring someone to operate it, means you don't actually make any money on produce for A LONG TIME.

Does it scale/progress with gameplay? idk. But probably not. Most of us have come to produce well passed where it would assert itself in the normal progression of a new player's game. But I simply can't imagine that the multiple purchases it requires, and the additional burden of bouncing back and forth to another station, would do anything but make gameplay and the sense of progression worse. I would imagine losing the sense of being in control and building up your store the way you want; And instead being crushed under the weight of a clumsy and expensive system, that you find out takes up a LOT of floor space, costs more than the revenue it brings in, and that you wish you could just buy back OUT of.

The scale/helper end of produce is just BAD. Full stop.
So how do we fix it?

You do it RIGHT. Add the function of weighing produce to the checkout register. By making weighing produce part of the checkout, you add a new thing to do, to an already familiar process, for the player who's still working their own register. It feels appropriately like a level-up. And it keeps the register experience fresh, for longer. Meanwhile, you can add an additional delay to hired Cashiers, whenever they have to weigh produce -- so that there's an appropriate time cost to it, and additional complications to solve.

I would also imagine you'll want to make Produce a later license than it is. Without starting from scratch to feel how it plays, I'd easily guess that $750 is too early. $1000-$1300 seems more appropriate. It should come in at the moment the player is starting to look around and think, "I've got this!" ...Just before they start to get bored of repetition, but after they feel like they've got everything well under control. It's one more plate to spin. And you don't add it until you've mastered spinning all the other plates.

Additionally, forget about tying this system into 'Customer Helpers...' I think you knew this system was clunky and awkward and bad... But you pushed it anyway, because you're really trying to justify the idea of 'Customer Helpers.' My advice is: Give up. If it were a fit, you wouldn't have to force it. Just get RID of Customer Helpers. (at least for now) They are a forced concept that you'd never see in an owner-operated bodega in Queens, New York. They're either a late-game concept, when the store is massive... or they're not a concept at all.

[Lisandy3]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Bunky:

I'm British and I keep my eggs in the fridge, and so do my shops. Early access games will also benefit from listening to everyone already playing the game, saying they don't like a mechanic.

Don't know what shops you're shopping at, but British egg do NOT need to be refrigerated.

[Lisandy3]

Początkowo opublikowane przez roninpawn:

In every way, the scale part of produce is bad.

Is it realistic? No. I've never seen this setup in the real world. IRL, weighing is done at checkout... because of course it is. Who would pay an employee to stand at a scale all day, printing the same 20 produce codes onto costly label sheets? They wouldn't. Because the cashier can just look at what you've got, and code it at the register.

Is it intuitive? No. The first customer I checked out using the scale took 45 seconds, because I first tried typing in EVERY piece of information on the scale's screen - getting more and more frustrated with each failed attempt. "What do you WANT ME TO PUT IN, GAME?!" Only to have to be told by someone who already knew (in my livestream chat) that I was supposed to type in the produce number that was ALREADY PRINTED ON THE brown paper BAG?! That's about as unintuitive as it could possibly be!

And it's another point against the scale, in the 'realism' column!

Is it a fun mechanic? No. It's busy work, tacked on to justify having more types of people to hire. It isn't fun. It isn't fluid. It's a nuisance. And the overhead of buying-in and hiring someone to operate it, means you don't actually make any money on produce for A LONG TIME.

Does it scale/progress with gameplay? idk. But probably not. Most of us have come to produce well passed where it would assert itself in the normal progression of a new player's game. But I simply can't imagine that the multiple purchases it requires, and the additional burden of bouncing back and forth to another station, would do anything but make gameplay and the sense of progression worse. I would imagine losing the sense of being in control and building up your store the way you want; And instead being crushed under the weight of a clumsy and expensive system, that you find out takes up a LOT of floor space, costs more than the revenue it brings in, and that you wish you could just buy back OUT of.

The scale/helper end of produce is just BAD. Full stop.
So how do we fix it?

You do it RIGHT. Add the function of weighing produce to the checkout register. By making weighing produce part of the checkout, you add a new thing to do, to an already familiar process, for the player who's still working their own register. It feels appropriately like a level-up. And it keeps the register experience fresh, for longer. Meanwhile, you can add an additional delay to hired Cashiers, whenever they have to weigh produce -- so that there's an appropriate time cost to it, and additional complications to solve.

I would also imagine you'll want to make Produce a later license than it is. Without starting from scratch to feel how it plays, I'd easily guess that $750 is too early. $1000-$1300 seems more appropriate. It should come in at the moment the player is starting to look around and think, "I've got this!" ...Just before they start to get bored of repetition, but after they feel like they've got everything well under control. It's one more plate to spin. And you don't add it until you've mastered spinning all the other plates.

Additionally, forget about tying this system into 'Customer Helpers...' I think you knew this system was clunky and awkward and bad... But you pushed it anyway, because you're really trying to justify the idea of 'Customer Helpers.' My advice is: Give up. If it were a fit, you wouldn't have to force it. Just get RID of Customer Helpers. (at least for now) They are a forced concept that you'd never see in an owner-operated bodega in Queens, New York. They're either a late-game concept, when the store is massive... or they're not a concept at all.

100% agree

[djlegofan]

I agree with all the comments above. The helper is broken and the scales cause a long line, tie up the helpers or yourself and everyone in the shop is saying " scale queue too long". the game needs to reduce the amount of individual fruit and veg items per customer and make the scales customer based with the occasional assistance needed from helpers or yourself. Love having produce in the game makes it feel like a real supermarket but needs reworking a bit.

[LegoBrick]

Początkowo opublikowane przez roninpawn:

Is it realistic? No. I've never seen this setup in the real world. IRL, weighing is done at checkout... because of course it is. Who would pay an employee to stand at a scale all day, printing the same 20 produce codes onto costly label sheets? They wouldn't.

You're allowed to not like it but the entire world is not America :) This system that SMS uses does exist in a lot of countries and supermarket chains.

[Stefan Braun]

There is definitely some room for improvement. Like, that customers to it themself and there is only a chance for them to need help.
Here in Germany, most weighing is done at the cash register, although I saw one Supermarket with a dedicated scale for self checkout at the produce section.

I like the produce section, but I feel like it should give a little more profit and be a little less labour intensive. And maybe a few more fruits.

[jijiya]

Początkowo opublikowane przez LegoBrick:

You're allowed to not like it but the entire world is not America :) This system that SMS uses does exist in a lot of countries and supermarket chains.

maybe perhaps then there might be an option considering their customer base is diverse and the mechanic is annoying to so many. like perhaps a checkout upgrade or something that removes the need for a separate produce weigh station that requires helpers. LIke the self check costs a bit more than a regular register that requires a cashier.

[Stefan Braun]

Początkowo opublikowane przez jijiya:

Początkowo opublikowane przez LegoBrick:

You're allowed to not like it but the entire world is not America :) This system that SMS uses does exist in a lot of countries and supermarket chains.

maybe perhaps then there might be an option considering their customer base is diverse and the mechanic is annoying to so many. like perhaps a checkout upgrade or something that removes the need for a separate produce weigh station that requires helpers. LIke the self check costs a bit more than a regular register that requires a cashier.

I guess this would be a good solution.
Like, that we can buy an upgrade for our cash registers (like 150 $ for normal and 200 $ for self checkout) that adds a scale to it. On the cash register, you have to weigh it and enter the price. AI cashiers just need a little longer to scan and on self checkout the customers to it themself (but they need a bit).

[Fredspekvet]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Lisandy3:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Bunky:

I'm British and I keep my eggs in the fridge, and so do my shops. Early access games will also benefit from listening to everyone already playing the game, saying they don't like a mechanic.

Don't know what shops you're shopping at, but British egg do NOT need to be refrigerated.

Neither do the ones in Netherlands. problem is , in america , they wash the eggs. that removes their natural protective barrier which causes them to spoil much easier. if you don't wash them and remove that layer, they can stay out of the fridge no problem.

[cistem offender]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Bunky:

I'm British and I keep my eggs in the fridge, and so do my shops. Early access games will also benefit from listening to everyone already playing the game, saying they don't like a mechanic.

That's because in America our eggs are produced different and we remove the waxy seal that other countries keep on the eggs. This makes is go bad much faster. So it must be refrigerated. There is no benefit to this or any real reason other than were America so we have to make thing difficult.

[Alatross LV]

I don't agree at all with this post. In my country you get the veggies or fruits, you go to a scale and an employee weights them and label them... EXACTLY HOW IT IS IN THE GAME!!!

[landofthelala]

I was under the impression the scale would be like the self checkout registers, not EVERY customer will need assistance, but occasionally one will shout for help.
I had to hire the 2nd customer helper just for the produce scale. Which is annoying because I have 8 self checkouts and the one customer helper was more than enough to manage them all

All the new guy does is literally stand at the scale and only help those people. And the line gets so long that customers complain about it, except I can't just add a 2nd scale because I'll need a 3rd helper for that one too. But there isn't any, there's only 2 helpers available in total.

And I'm too busy running around trying to clean the store because I refuse to pay yet another person. Tell me why it's 8:58, there is NOBODY in the store yet, and theres already trash spawning in.

The entire new update killed the game for me. It used to be so much fun.

Also, the fruit boxes sit so far back on the shelves. I have tall racks, and when there's only a single box up top you can't grab it if it's a middle rack. I don't know why the devs chose to fill the fruits from back to front, unlike how every other item fills on the storage racks

[Greenmangos]

Normally I'm a staunch defender of even ♥♥♥♥♥♥ mechanics in a game because most of the time to me it feels like a skill issue with the player. Some games do have slightly clunky mechanics but this one in particular feels really annoying and tedious. I agree with essentially every point you made, as someone who has worked as a retail cashier, it feels insane to have a whole separate system simply for labeling produce. Sometimes there are scales in a produce section but that's usually just to give customers and idea on how much they might be spending but the reality of that is nothing like this is.

[schenckeL]

I'm a supermarket owner in real life and i agree with you.
I work here for 27years and i really know how things work in a supermarket, i have some fun here but the game can be improved much more than are now.

[Gypsy3k]

Początkowo opublikowane przez roninpawn:

In every way, the scale part of produce is bad.

Is it realistic? No. I've never seen this setup in the real world. IRL, weighing is done at checkout... because of course it is. Who would pay an employee to stand at a scale all day, printing the same 20 produce codes onto costly label sheets? They wouldn't. Because the cashier can just look at what you've got, and code it at the register.

Is it intuitive? No. The first customer I checked out using the scale took 45 seconds, because I first tried typing in EVERY piece of information on the scale's screen - getting more and more frustrated with each failed attempt. "What do you WANT ME TO PUT IN, GAME?!" Only to have to be told by someone who already knew (in my livestream chat) that I was supposed to type in the produce number that was ALREADY PRINTED ON THE brown paper BAG?! That's about as unintuitive as it could possibly be!

And it's another point against the scale, in the 'realism' column!

Is it a fun mechanic? No. It's busy work, tacked on to justify having more types of people to hire. It isn't fun. It isn't fluid. It's a nuisance. And the overhead of buying-in and hiring someone to operate it, means you don't actually make any money on produce for A LONG TIME.

Does it scale/progress with gameplay? idk. But probably not. Most of us have come to produce well passed where it would assert itself in the normal progression of a new player's game. But I simply can't imagine that the multiple purchases it requires, and the additional burden of bouncing back and forth to another station, would do anything but make gameplay and the sense of progression worse. I would imagine losing the sense of being in control and building up your store the way you want; And instead being crushed under the weight of a clumsy and expensive system, that you find out takes up a LOT of floor space, costs more than the revenue it brings in, and that you wish you could just buy back OUT of.

The scale/helper end of produce is just BAD. Full stop.
So how do we fix it?

You do it RIGHT. Add the function of weighing produce to the checkout register. By making weighing produce part of the checkout, you add a new thing to do, to an already familiar process, for the player who's still working their own register. It feels appropriately like a level-up. And it keeps the register experience fresh, for longer. Meanwhile, you can add an additional delay to hired Cashiers, whenever they have to weigh produce -- so that there's an appropriate time cost to it, and additional complications to solve.

I would also imagine you'll want to make Produce a later license than it is. Without starting from scratch to feel how it plays, I'd easily guess that $750 is too early. $1000-$1300 seems more appropriate. It should come in at the moment the player is starting to look around and think, "I've got this!" ...Just before they start to get bored of repetition, but after they feel like they've got everything well under control. It's one more plate to spin. And you don't add it until you've mastered spinning all the other plates.

Additionally, forget about tying this system into 'Customer Helpers...' I think you knew this system was clunky and awkward and bad... But you pushed it anyway, because you're really trying to justify the idea of 'Customer Helpers.' My advice is: Give up. If it were a fit, you wouldn't have to force it. Just get RID of Customer Helpers. (at least for now) They are a forced concept that you'd never see in an owner-operated bodega in Queens, New York. They're either a late-game concept, when the store is massive... or they're not a concept at all.

Could not agree more. I really hope this is something they tweak sometime in the near future. I honestly regret getting produce to add to my store because I hate the scale mechanic.

[Dolomite83]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Bunky:

I'm British and I keep my eggs in the fridge, and so do my shops. Early access games will also benefit from listening to everyone already playing the game, saying they don't like a mechanic.

eggs can stay out of the fridge, but if they are kept even for a little at low temperature (like during transport) they must be kept like that till they expiration date.
That's because the porosity of the shell change with cold and if they are warmed it's easier for bacteria to get inside.