RPG Maker game with RTP graphics and you're charging money for it?

[Taka]

Are you joking? I could understand if you had all original graphics or something, but come on...

I'll check out the demo later to see how the gameplay is. I seriously hope you did some serious script modifications...

[LemonRush7777]

Originally posted by TBC:

Originally posted by Fenrir007:

It's not just about the hours of entertainment, but the quality of it. Otherwise we would all be playing grindfest MMOs, as those are unmatched on the hours/dollar ratio.

That should be obvious without say. That's kind of already assumed. Like I personally would not spend money to watch sports. Wasted hours for me. The interest part with that is assumed.

What I mean is that, just because an RPG Maker has 60 hours of gameplay, that doesnt mean thats an enjoyable experience.

One of my favorite indie RPGs is around 6 - 8 hours short. It's the Barkley Shut Up and Jam Gaiden RPG (freeware, too, so play it if you haven't).Coincidentally it started as a RPG Maker game, but as the limitations of the game engine started making it impossible for them to implement certain things, they went to Gamemaker. Anyway, my point is - they didn't have grind, backtracking or any useless padding in their game, so it was an extremely well polished 6 - 8 hours of gameplay. People liked it so much that their Kickstarter to make a sequel made more than $ 120,000 - and their initial game doesn't even have original art assets (they basically rip off multiple games, including NBA genesis games). Had they padded the experiencve with 52 hours of inane activities just to artificially make the experience last longer, people may not have bothered at all.

This is actually one of the trappings I see many aspiring RPG Maker game devs fall into - trying to emulate 8 bit jrpg lenght (later continued in some capacity in the following generations as players got unfortunately used to it) that had to give you grinding, backtracking etc due to limited catridge space so you wouldnt blaze through it in hours.

This isn't limited to RPGs, though. Egoraptor made a pretty good video on it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aip2aIt0ROM

[TBC]

Oh I know about that video. I also watch Extra Credits and they discuss things like spectacle creep and Power creep.

Nevertheless, you saying a game is padded for 60 hours and not fun doesn't mean the person next to you won't find those 60 hours enjoyable. I've played RPGs for almost 20 years now, started on Nintendo. I find this game very fun.

Is it as good as the Breath of Fires or Final Fantasies of old? No. It's pretty hard to attain that. But this game DOES have a lot of details, a decent story, a good leveling system and satiates the JRPG fix.

It doesn't matter that the assets are from RTP. They MADE the RTP package for people to use to make and sell a game. I think they've done a fine job with this game. Not saying it's perfect by any means, but it's worth the $5.00.

[LemonRush7777]

Originally posted by TBC:

Oh I know about that video. I also watch Extra Credits and they discuss things like spectacle creep and Power creep.

Nevertheless, you saying a game is padded for 60 hours and not fun doesn't mean the person next to you won't find those 60 hours enjoyable. I've played RPGs for almost 20 years now, started on Nintendo. I find this game very fun.

Is it as good as the Breath of Fires or Final Fantasies of old? No. It's pretty hard to attain that. But this game DOES have a lot of details, a decent story, a good leveling system and satiates the JRPG fix.

It doesn't matter that the assets are from RTP. They MADE the RTP package for people to use to make and sell a game. I think they've done a fine job with this game. Not saying it's perfect by any means, but it's worth the $5.00.

The only thing I'm saying is that a big playtime does not necessarily equate to a fun and engaging experience.

[Coach]

Originally posted by TBC:

You guys won't manage getting through to these ignorants. So don't bother trying. Their minds won't change and they certainly won't get any more common sense.

As someone mentioned before, the program is licensed so you can sell your games. Even with the RTP. The RTP is there so you can use it to make a game and sell if you want. It's your right to sell it, and it's the consumer's right to choose whether they think it is worth it enough to buy.

I, like any intelligent person, gauge my decision to purchase something on hours of entertainment gained over cost. If I spend 60 bucks on a game and play for 3 hours, it was expensive and not worth it. Spending 60 bucks on a game I spend 100 hours on makes it pretty cheap per hour of entertainment.

This game is faily inexpensive and grants a lot of hours of entertainment if you're into what they're making. Which people are.

So like it or don't, buy it or shut up. Plain and simple.

It just validates that anyone without talent can sell something that people will buy. Promoting this only leads to future dissappointments. Why tell your kid hes special when hes not?

[NeoDraconis]

As long as its fun, it does help out those who are not talented with coding and or art to share their vison of an enjoyable game... That said people put way too much value in graphics in my opinion.

[light5_fl]

For me, what sells RPG games to me, is a combination of story, characters and music not graphic. Poor or archic graphics can and often will be easly forgiven if the Story and characters are good and the music is good. If I enjoy the story and characters I will likely play a game and if I don't I won't.

Music is also improtant as it sets the mood and aids in emersion in a game, nothing will sink a game faster than poorly chosen music because poor music choices will utterly destory emerision in a game and be outright annoying.

[Kidmajin]

Originally posted by Fenrir007:

Originally posted by AirstrikeZzz:

Not really sure what this emphasis on custom scripts and RPG maker is. Is that really what makes a good game? Might want to take a closer look at this game before bashing it.

It certainly helps on the presentation, and differentiating it from other, similar products. It gives it identity, in other words.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard so if you want to make a game with a side view battle and there is a free script to achieve what you are looking for instead of doing that you would make script from scratch that will achieve the same thing as the already made one just to be "original" = logic? But I know what your trying to say using the assets it came with is bad. Fact is that's not entirely true they paid for the rtp the product came with and in all honesty its not that bad they only reason you would need custom assets is to create the image of the game your trying to make. If your making a game set in medieval time period and the product comes with medieval assets why not use it? If its set in modern time period then you would need custom assets for example.

[marcelo]

I really love they using the RTP from RM, it is like showing to people that you can make a really good game with simple graphics that we are familiar. And they map desing is kinda strange but i finda it mostly cool and, and mostly important, that soundtrack <3 Love that they get some really unknow artists.

Stop being stupid and claiming for NEW NEW NEW NEW NEW in things that doesn't
matter that much, and if we didnt explore the roots and possibilities of a thing so simple and inocent. Maybe that's why minimalism exists in contemporany art.

And remember guys: Claiming anything is ORIGINAL is completelly wrong. There is no such things as ORIGINAL on this universe, I'm sorry. Everyone is a thief. In a good or bad way.

[CJayMarch]

I've seen a few threads on RPGMaker game forums here on Steam in which people bash traditional JRPGs and then tell you to go play that Barkley game. I never played that game, but I can tell you that the average fan of classic JRPGs isn't going to suddenly go 'Wait, my opinion is wrong--I need to give up my adoration for Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest and play this game starring Charles Barkley that emulates old basketball games.' If you're trying to change the way people are--which is silly IMO--that isn't going to be an effective means.

Again, I never played that Barkley game, and it might be great--my issue is that the idea of be-different-or-else is a curse of our generation, in my humble opinion. Like what you honestly like. If you want to listen to classic rock, listen to classic rock. You don't have to listen to the latest experimental band if you don't want to (though if you do, hey, go for it.)

[m.]

When I was working in the RPGmaker community (2002-2009) I saw plenty games made with 2K and 2k3 that I would've rightly paid money for and they used RTP. Sure, the best of the bunch were games that used their own assets or coded unique battle systems, but there were good games; games worth money. This game seems to have a lot of heart in it and I appreciate that. I also love that you finished the project to a satisifying end result; when I was making my games I never got a chance to finish them though they taught me a lot about coding and other stuff but then again I was quite young when I started working on fangames. Anyway, I've barely got time in but I'm curious to see where this game takes me for a few hours.

[LemonRush7777]

Originally posted by Kidmajin:

Originally posted by Fenrir007:

It certainly helps on the presentation, and differentiating it from other, similar products. It gives it identity, in other words.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard so if you want to make a game with a side view battle and there is a free script to achieve what you are looking for instead of doing that you would make script from scratch that will achieve the same thing as the already made one just to be "original" = logic? But I know what your trying to say using the assets it came with is bad. Fact is that's not entirely true they paid for the rtp the product came with and in all honesty its not that bad they only reason you would need custom assets is to create the image of the game your trying to make. If your making a game set in medieval time period and the product comes with medieval assets why not use it? If its set in modern time period then you would need custom assets for example.

Scripts are not something the players sees, but rather experiences in the game. Art assets, on the other hand, are different, and they are one of the biggest means of differentiating one game from another and to create an identity for them.

"If your making a game set in medieval time period and the product comes with medieval assets why not use it?"

Probably because your game will look like every other RPG Maker game that used the same default assets on the market? And they arent few.

[GinsengSamurai]

I know this thread is pretty old, but I want to put in my 2 pints.

1. The game costs $5.
2. So what if it's stock graphics? It's not selling for $50. Heck it's not even selling for $10.
3. If what they are releasing is legally endorsed by the RPGMaker devs, then that's good enough for me as a customer...
4. ...as a customer that would care about a game like this. If I did care, then $5 is nothing. I can make that back in a few minutes of work.

This is how I would like to think about indie game developers:

1. They are charging in a very affordable way.
2. A cheap game that for some, takes a long time to learn and make. $5 is beer/tea money to help motivate them.
3. As a software developer myself, I can appreciate their effort, even if they are using stock graphics, music, sound effects and scripts.
4. My money goes on to fund for other projects they want to build. In time, if they make more, then they will hire artists, musicians and sound engineers.

Remember, we're talking about RPGMaker here. We're not talking about using their own in-house SDK or premium game engine programming in C#, C, C+, etc. So what if they are using stock graphics? Until they have a large starting budget, developing through coding their own stuff, why would I nitpick at a $5 indie game? Yes, criticism is obviously welcome, I'm sure, but so what if it's stock graphics? ;)

And before anyone 'dings' me for being a kid. My first computer was an Apple II. I enjoyed Oregon Trail. I believe the Commodore 64/Amiga 500 was the best computer ahead of its time. I have been a software developer since Windows 95. ^_^