Savestates and Rewinds? lol try harder

[Chocos Ramabotti]

As if this game is some retro game you play on an emulator which it is not. I don't care if it is optional: savestates and rewinds are cancer and a reason why younger folk no longer respect older videogames. Call me a gatekeeper, but removing consequences out of videogames is what turns them into a sandbox.

I see merit for speedrunning if you have to unlock it first, but again, speedrunning is the most degenerate activity mankind has ever come up with.

I hope these are listed under "cheats" cause nothing else it is.
Savestates are even kinda dangerous if you don't use them right, you could basically load over all your progress if it works like in software emulation, which it hopefully does not since Shovel Knight DX is no software emulation, savestates should never become a standard alone for that fact.

I hope "Mina the Hollower" won't include such cheap features it's an really unnecessary waste of ressources.

[Fendrar]

You really need to go outside and touch some grass bro

[kukukachu]

Originally posted by Fendrar:

You really need to go outside and touch some grass bro

same could be said for you
honestly, we could all benefit from going outside.

[Perryn ペリン]

There recently was a Quake 2 "remaster" that added a compass feature and it turned that game into actually a lot of fun because the original had a ton of confusing backtracking (sometimes between TWO load screens it was that far back) and I hated the original and love the new version.

These updates and features aren't a problem. If it bugs you, you don't use it, simple. If it makes someone elses game more fun or accessible for them, that's good too. You both get to enjoy something. Don't gatekeep fun. :)

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Originally posted by Fendrar:

You really need to go outside and touch some grass bro

Oh trust me I don't nearly waste that much time playing video games, than actually thinking about them... while I go outside,

Discussing what a potential standardization of such a feature means to how we perceive our hobby takes priority to me, that's called "passion".

[deborahsimpson]

Crybabies asked for Savestates....
Ugh this Emoji generation...

[Spectrum Legacy]

Having savestates as a tool for practice is fine, i.e. you can practice individual stages, boss battles or specific spots that cause you trouble. I imagine that most people are not using it for that purpose though, to 1cc/nomiss games. Savescumming to bruteforce through is one of the deadly sins in gaming.

I'm glad that this version is standalone. If this was a forced update to Shovel of Hope or Treasure Trove itself, it would cause more wrong than good imo. I say let the newcomers to the genre have fun too. It might even look like a nes game running on emulator to them with this featureset.

[AcidSweat]

I totally agree about the speedrunning. It's such a stupid thing to do (unless the game is designed specifically to be played at the higher speed possible). There's no much difference between a speedrunner and a competitive eater.

[THXPLAY]

Yea

[FreshMint]

Originally posted by Chocos Ramabotti:

As if this game is some retro game you play on an emulator which it is not.

I mean not that it means it's emulation but at this point the game is almost 10 years old :V
Given how the original handles cheats (which are now more accessible than cheat codes you had to look up) I wouldn't be surprised if cheating disabled achievements, and the original version remains 'untainted'.

I've mixed feelings about the concept of "difficult = bad" culture myself (Allowing many people to enjoy campaigns until the end vs required difficulty feeling good to overcome) as well but if people have always been able to use cheat codes in the original (stuff like being invincible + bouncing on pits) then how different really is that from having save states or rewinds?

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Originally posted by FreshMint:

Originally posted by Chocos Ramabotti:

As if this game is some retro game you play on an emulator which it is not.

I mean not that it means it's emulation but at this point the game is almost 10 years old :V
Given how the original handles cheats (which are now more accessible than cheat codes you had to look up) I wouldn't be surprised if cheating disabled achievements, and the original version remains 'untainted'.

I've mixed feelings about the concept of "difficult = bad" culture myself (Allowing many people to enjoy campaigns until the end vs required difficulty feeling good to overcome) as well but if people have always been able to use cheat codes in the original (stuff like being invincible + bouncing on pits) then how different really is that from having save states or rewinds?

I think the difference is how hidden this feature is, does it require knowledge outside the game? Then integrity is maintained, as no new player will stumble upon cheats unlike they really want to, at first they don't even know they exist.

On Nintendo Classic Online approximately most player use savestates and rewinds like it's the most natrual thing in the world as Nintendo highlights this feature prominently, it even forces the player to rewind once so it's 100% ensured they know that it exists, this leads to especially younger folk believing that's the way how these games are supposed to be played or that it's "unreasonable" to assume to play nowdays without it.

Why does it bother me? Well it doesn't bother me for the individual they just choose what is offered to them, but it's clear that it shapes the perception of the past and as such also way how future games will look like, as such, games like "Shovel Knight DX" are slippery slopes.

[owenmspence]

I understand newcomers and younger gamers would like to use rewind and save states so they could have a good time… but I also think save states completely kill the purpose of how checkpoints work in this game.

[TwinEdgedBastard]

Solution, don't use it.

I would argue that the existence of save states have made older games more accessible, and thus more open to be enjoyed by "younger folk". If they breeze through the game with rewinds and enjoy it, they may be compelled to play the game over again without rewinds.

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Originally posted by TwinEdgedBastard:

Solution, don't use it.

I would argue that the existence of save states have made older games more accessible, and thus more open to be enjoyed by "younger folk". If they breeze through the game with rewinds and enjoy it, they may be compelled to play the game over again without rewinds.

define "accessible"

[TwinEdgedBastard]

Originally posted by Chocos Ramabotti:

Originally posted by TwinEdgedBastard:

Solution, don't use it.

I would argue that the existence of save states have made older games more accessible, and thus more open to be enjoyed by "younger folk". If they breeze through the game with rewinds and enjoy it, they may be compelled to play the game over again without rewinds.

define "accessible"

The definition of "accessibility" in the context of my comment is allowing people of lower skill levels, or have difficulty playing games due to loss of hand motor skills or similar to enjoy gaming.

Games are more than just a "challenge" to many people. Its why there's a market of narrative driven games. Some people want to experience the games story, explore their worlds, see cool moments, etc.

Yes I will acknowledge the error in my comment of implying that older games are more accessible, because they're not in terms of compatibility and availability to purchase. But I think you are fully aware of the alternative.

[theclaw135]

Anybody gatekeeping users with loss of motor skills, or the like, is a rotten egg.

That said, the designer's intent is still meaningful. Letting players hide settings that dramatically alter the experience, lets everyone enjoy the game as they want, without disrupting others.