Just a clarification on red-blue rock achievement

[Man's Best Friend]

I'm allowed to have 15+ containment silos before building the thing, as long as I don't have them at the moment I build it, correct?
Obviously I'll wait at least 15 minutes after deleting them, but I kinda need more chromalit to make more hell vaults.

[Sajiro]

yes, but you also don't need more hell vaults, look at the thread on red-blue rock theory if you want to learn how to get this achievement the easy (normal?) way

[M@D HAtT€R]

Hint: It is possible to reach the achievement without sitting there with a stop watch, to exactly time when you are allowed to click. (Even though, that seems to be possible too... found a video where someone does that.)

I liked his solution by the way: He seems to use the time warp to delay fission.

[Ziltoid]

The strategy to obtain this achievement is not about mass building or brute forcing by massive amounts of Chromalit. It's about being smart and finding a way to spike your Chromalit count above the usual optimized ~590K limit (with 14 silos) without selling anything. It's even doable with fewer than 10 celestial irradiators which IIRC means fewer than 7 hell vaults.

[psychotron]

yeah you can have as many as you want before the 15 minutes

Just dont spend too much time making them because getting the achievement ends the game T_T

just bruce force it with massive amounts of chromalit

[Ziltoid]

Originally posted by psychotron:

just bruce force it with massive amounts of chromalit

For the record: any strategy that involves attempts to brute force massive amounts of Chromalit will inevitably take longer to execute than doing it the smart/right way; with one exception: you get really, really, REALLY lucky with surges.

[M@D HAtT€R]

Warning: The following is an actual spoiler on one way to do it - it is by brute force and there are more reliable methods, already discussed in other threads... but I will give it a shot, just for the heck of it.

According to the developer´s quick guide excavators are presumably obsolete in the last phase of the game... trying to do it without excavators now... am curious how that will go - I can´t see it working right now.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3175272612
A solution without backtracking would be nice...

Also, probably worth a shot:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3175694576

Edit: Timewarp could be used together with the deconstruction abuse, to delay fission even further.

[psychotron]

Originally posted by Ziltoid:

Originally posted by psychotron:

just bruce force it with massive amounts of chromalit

For the record: any strategy that involves attempts to brute force massive amounts of Chromalit will inevitably take longer to execute than doing it the smart/right way

lol the right way
for the record: thats your right way,
which is just the first ever solution described consistently by the community

At this late stage in the game ive already recycled every excavating channel, so instead of rebuilding them and setting them to 17000m, I just built more irradiators.

Originally posted by M@D HAtT€R:

but I will give it a shot, just for the heck of it.

- I can´t see it working right now.

I used 9 hell vaults, 14 irradiators, and 52 preheaters to get above 640k fully automated with no excavating channels (pre 1.06)

[M@D HAtT€R]

Originally posted by psychotron:

Originally posted by Ziltoid:

For the record: any strategy that involves attempts to brute force massive amounts of Chromalit will inevitably take longer to execute than doing it the smart/right way

lol the right way
for the record: thats your right way,
which is just the first ever solution described consistently by the community

At this late stage in the game ive already recycled every excavating channel, so instead of rebuilding them and setting them to 17000m, I just built more irradiators.

Originally posted by M@D HAtT€R:

but I will give it a shot, just for the heck of it.

- I can´t see it working right now.

I used 9 hell vaults, 14 irradiators, and 52 preheaters to get above 640k fully automated with no excavating channels (pre 1.06)

So it may actually work... nice, will give it a shot then. Maybe I will still get to build my totally oversized factory ^,^

[Ziltoid]

Getting to that number of irradiators and preheaters means either cheating or spending a hell of a lot of more time than you would by resetting a channel. That's what I meant by the right/smart way: the one that doesn't require 40+ hours of grinding out enough materials to build enough hell vaults that you can build enough irradiators and preheaters to push it above the limit.

I'm not saying there aren't other ways. I'm saying every other way takes so long it'd be ridiculous to claim that's the way to do it.

[psychotron]

let me restart rq and make 14 irradiators with 6 hell vaults instead of 9 brb

[M@D HAtT€R]

Originally posted by Ziltoid:

Getting to that number of irradiators and preheaters means either cheating or spending a hell of a lot of more time than you would by resetting a channel. That's what I meant by the right/smart way: the one that doesn't require 40+ hours of grinding out enough materials to build enough hell vaults that you can build enough irradiators and preheaters to push it above the limit.

I'm not saying there aren't other ways. I'm saying every other way takes so long it'd be ridiculous to claim that's the way to do it.

Agree with you there, the reset solution certainly seems like the easiest and almost fool-proof way to reach the achievement.

[M@D HAtT€R]

Originally posted by psychotron:

let me restart rq and make 14 irradiators with 6 hell vaults instead of 9 brb

:D Don´t even doubt your claim - sounds like a solution that could snowball quickly, when you know what you are doing. Resetting still requires waiting for the excavators to get down to depth again.

Also see no reason to argue about it though. Every solution that achieves the goal is good. Currently I liked the timewarp solution best (requires the most skill - because of the timing aspect and includes a clever trick one probably would not necessarily think about.)

Edit:
You can find speedruns of 1 to 2 hours on YT already, so... I assume some more direct route must exist, that is a lot faster.

[M@D HAtT€R]

Originally posted by psychotron:

let me restart rq and make 14 irradiators with 6 hell vaults instead of 9 brb

Ooookay.... don´t destroy your mouse, while doing whatever you are doing. The speedruns are crazy...

[M@D HAtT€R]

Originally posted by psychotron:

6400 clicks (before autoclick update) was one of the harder achievements for me

XD - my respect... but no thanks, I can live with not being able to do certain things.

(Would probably rather break my fingers.)

I was happy to wait for the resonators to slowly grind away and wait for the autoclicker.

[Ziltoid]

Originally posted by psychotron:

I used 9 hell vaults, 14 irradiators, and 52 preheaters to get above 640k fully automated with no excavating channels (pre 1.06)
[...]
let me restart rq and make 14 irradiators with 6 hell vaults instead of 9 brb

And I'm saying that if those are your numbers, you either cheated (including exploiting a bug) or at some point had FAR more hell vaults than advertised.

Let's go on a little journey. Here are some numbers for you (not including surges in calculation):

6 Hell Vaults will protect 6656 Hell Gems from annihilation (512 + (6 * 1024) = 6656). That will mean you can afford exactly 10 irradiators and 36 preheaters. Concidentally this is approximately the numbers required for the "normal" way to RBR.

Irradiator number 11 will cost 7382 Hell Gems. Number 14 will cost 24910 Hell Gems.
Preheater number 36 will cost 7195 Hell Gems. Number 50 will cost 30050.

Which means that even just basing this on the Hell Gem cost, your numbers simply don't add up - and making them add up requires so many Hell Vaults - 29 to be precise (512 + (29 * 1024) = 30208) - that the cost in just Hollow Stones for no. 29 reaches an astounding 91.5 TRILLION. As we know, Hollow Stone has a semi-fixed spawn rate which means you'd have to leave the game running probably for several months 24/7 to reach that number. Or cheat/exploit.

Conclusion: either you cheated (or exploited), or those numbers are wrong, or you spent so much time in the game piling up Hell Vaults that you could've gotten the RBR achievement in the "normal" way thousands upon thousands of times. In either case, proclaiming that brute forcing of Chromalit is an even remotely sensible (in terms of time spent) way to get the RBR achievement is - sorry - ridiculous. The numbers don't lie.

Side note: 14 irradiators and 50 preheaters can indeed be arranged in such a way that they will spike above 640K Chromalit. I'm not denyinng that fact. I'm denying that it's in any way sensible to say this is a good way to get RBR; main reason being the need for 29 Hell Vaults.