My way of playing.

[Vinceathor]

So I've gotten to the point of understanding with this game and almost always reach level 20. I've gotten *almost* every heritage and am currently working on the challenges.

So my general technique is to always finish the first two dungeons and make every piece of gold I can.

From there I refresh the inn and finish the first level. I've found that most of the time you can make over 50gold on a single level.

I rely very heavily on the store to get my gear and jewelry. Also I don't level up very fast because I run an assassin and have amulet of seven keys.

So really it all becomes about time. Some levels I'll make just at 50 and some I'll make 500. But the fact that I never have to interact because im hidden allows me to breeze through, collect money, refresh, buy what I need or enchant and continue.

This system really works for me and then once my gear is maxed I can just go 1 hit bears like it's nothing.

Full loadout:

Dragonhide
Seven keys
Ring of Shadows
Ring of Shielding
Dual claws

Switch is usually a pickaxe with CHA enchant.

My enchants strictly go towards immunities. I won't attempt any bosses or monsters until I have all 20 immunities (I ignore poison and disease) my 3rd leg of the imp always goes to a blessed elements ring and I carry 1 of each blessed amulet (frost/fire/shock) because most of the time if I die it's because of an elemental.

Any remaining enchants, usually runes go towards life and energy for the shielding ring.

My weapon enchants are always
Insta kill
Frost
Fire

Insta kill
Shock
Fire/physical

Ill sometimes do dual fire because of trolls.

My talents are, in this order:
Common literacy (secret seventh)
Keen eye
Silent move
Blade flurry
Dual wield
Heritage dependent (magic/shapeshift)
Heritage dependent (magic/shapeshift)

If I don't go for a heritage I get silent cast and focused cast


I'll always attempt to get a wand of scripting, adepts/master recharge, blessing, enchanting, identify, time warp, and dislocation scrolls.

With the scripting wand loop I can make blessed double enchanted items that sell for alot of money. Once I have that money is no longer an issue.

Once my gear is set I'll use my time warp to go and farm charms from the floaties at the cultist quest.

All the while I'm looking for things to make an ebbin ring. Once I get the I change out my seven keys to a battlemage amulet because usually by then I've done the infinite knowledge loop and have every spell.

So anyways that was long winded but thank you for reading! That's how I play. Your feedback would be greatly appreciated as to what you do or what you think I could be doing differently. I look forward to your comments!

Find me in game 'Ozai the Firelord'

[Pear]

(not gonna argue about playstyle because I'm super rusty and frankly inexperienced with stealth AGI)

My thoughts:


-Immunities:

Taking all immunities except poison/disease is surprising considering they're covered by a single Immunity ring which I would at least keep as a swap.

LDrain should do literally nothing when you have Shielding on since its effect is steal 1-2 health which is less than the 3 "health" an energy point provides so you can take that out.

EDrain drains exactly 1 energy per proc and doesn't really do that much so I lean towards dropping it.

Outside of challenges, Deafen appears on random weapon enchantments (and poisons if you aren't immune) only, so that's mostly irrelevant too.

Paralyze, Blind, Sleep are also random enchantments/poisons only but they can be lethal so I understand why you would want them to avoid unlucky deaths.



-Weapon Enchantments:

Double fire for trolls is severe overkill, a single burning effect kills, so just poke it once and rest while stealthed. Still great for raw damage though.

afaik D6 frost is just strictly worse than D6 shock, same proc rate and shock completely disables the creature.



Other stuff:

Pretty sure non-blessed dislocation is not as reliable as polymorph/invisibility unless you're really close to the entrance and just need to escape.

Ebbin really isn't worth the price once it stops giving perma invisibility. With the amount of money sunk into an Ebbin I'd make a Blessed Free Action and enchant shirt/hood in order to switch to mage instead.

Sidenote: As much as Battlemage helps with the transition, a pure mage with Blessed Free Action is literally twice as powerful and doesn't need to worry about armor at all, and the only extra fee you really pay is 2 runes if you've runed your helmet/armor (ofc you're making new weapons no matter what).

[Vinceathor]

That's some great advice! I posted this on hopes of some good feedback like that.

Every run I try to change it to make it a little better so I'll definitely apply your suggestions.

Honestly with blade flurry and two insta kills and deadly poison I 1 hit almost everything.

Also I haven't done the king yet just because I want to finish up my heritages. I'm just lazy and want to do them while invisible.

Iike the shock idea. I think I'll go towards dual shock to help with paralysis.

Any other thoughts are more than welcome!

[Pear]

Yeah I figured flurry should pretty much kill everything, so I almost wanted to recommend sneaking a cheeky +7 hp in there. Maxing out damage is nice too though!

[Mustardoish]

What's up with the pickaxe? If anything, I would take something with two slots for alternative enchants.
I found that ring of elements has been dropping a bit in my meta. With enough health and especially the ring of shielding, removing that one should work fine.
What about critting? Especially for farming gold, high crit chances are good. As asassins you do not necessarily one hit once out of stealth, so incapacitating the enemies with very high chance is quite helpful.

[Vinceathor]

Well Even without crit, I have blade flurry and dual insta kill enchants, also i typically use nightshade on my main hand with each poision, including deadly. I have no problem with insta killing enemies even with +1/+2 crit.

As for the pickaxe, Its just a habit thats stuck with me. I never really made any effort to use an alternative enchant. I thought maybe changing it to a wizard staff, thoughts?

I'm loving the feedback. My whole goal with this thread is to make my runs better and the end result of my rogue alot better! Keep em coming!

[Pear]

On the fence about completely dropping Elements, you risk getting perma shocked to death by a single floater. Definitely no longer a stable ring along with Immunity though since Shielding / Shadows / Underdog / Noobery are so useful.

Crit isn't essential for assassins once you have Blessed Seven Keys since that guarantees crit lockpicking to go with golden chastity key, although for max efficiency treemen farming you do want +5 crit, and since mages need 4 crit for clearcasting anyway I'd recommend getting some too.


Slight aside: How's lucky 7 working for you in terms of gold gain now that it can shatter? I'd imagine it breaks pretty damn quick since flurry multi-hits, but it's still fast cash.


About wizard weapons, I think there's no debate that two 1-handed weapons are better than wizard staffs just because of the 3 enchantment slots.


Some maths for justification:

Assuming perfect mage, so perfect stats, all spells and Silent Cast, you have a +6 accuracy bonus casting spells, and distance penalties should be reduced to 1/4 of its original value (halved by Focus Cast, halved again by Divine Reach), idk about rounding so let's be pessimistic and say it's rounded up.

For a max range hit, say something 8 tiles to your right and 8 tiles above, your range penalty is 8*sqrt(2)/4 = 2*sqrt(2) and rounds up to 3, then your chance to hit is 2D6 + 6 ≥ 7 + 3 which comes out to be 91.67%. Having a reroll increases this to about 99.3%, which is a pretty solid 8% increase in accuracy.

But if you have a perfect mage, then you have access to Orbus Bomba. And since you'll always be only missing by 1 tile when you miss, it means Orbus Bomba completely stops orbs from missing, so the only times you're not going to hit is by a miscast.

But, BUT, with a +6 mod (or even +5 for that matter), the casting check 2D6 + 6 ≥ 7 will always succeed with the exception of a 2D6=2 crit fail. So now you're looking at an accuracy increase from 97.22% to 99.92%, which is less than a 3% increase, so it's not really worth it at all.

In comparison, having an extra weapon gives you at the bare minimum an extra imbuement slot and 3 enchantment slots, which is much more worthwhile, if even just for an extra 7HP or 1CHA.

[Mustardoish]

I am under the impression that the probability of lucky 7 shattering depends on the amount of damage per hit. When running a stealthy build not that long ago, I noticed much higher chance of breaking using the crossbow than with blade flurry. The same goes for crushing blow. I have not rigorously tested this, might have been just coincidence.

My 2 cents about the Mage staff: When having Divine Reach and Focused Cast, you get the Polearm effect of rerolling missed casts anyways as a side effect of Divine Reach. Though as Pear already showed, even without the loss of accuracy is small, but the added benefit is substantial.

[Mustardoish]

Floater stunlocking you to death with 100+ life is quite unlikely. It will run out of steam before that. Again, haven't extensively tested it, but seen it work several times.

[Vinceathor]

Money really isnt an issue. I've never bothered with it. I usually dont get it until after ive gotten my scribe charm, and with that i just make endless copies of the masters recharge scroll and its between 120-180g each depending on CHA. Ill have 5-10k consistently after i get those items

And on the floater argument...I had full max gear and every immunity and changed my 3rd leg and even with a shielding ring i managed to get stunlocked and died. it was the most ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ death ive ever had on this game by far.

[dragoncrouch]

I can attest to this, floaters are not to be trifled with. I got down to negative hp but thankfully I had deathproof on and it absorbed the damage and I managed to teleport away in time to save myself. But dang I almost lost a great run to it.

[Vinceathor]

So I've done a few runs since making this thread and ive made some new changes, thoughts?

Assassin run

Talents in order
Common Literacy (Heritage from 7th talent)
Keen eye
Silent move
Dual wield
Silent Cast
Blade Flurry
*Focused cast

So I did some testing and it seems that my insta death enchant is more likely based on crit, i seemed to hit it more often when i had my crit gear on vs when i didn't so I don't necessarily put an emphasis on blade flurry because even if i don't get the hit, if I get hit back I'll go back hidden from ring of shadows.

*So my last run I just left my seventh talent open and didn't get focused cast because of divine reach, I was thinking maybe getting bear form instead (drink wolf potion and get bear form) but the thing is I never use bear form, so another thought is to get sixth sense or trap master instead

Gear
Dragonhide
Dual Fine Claws
Bl Seven Keys
Bl Shadows
Bl Shielding
Imp - bl elements
switch - Staff

Enchants (27 total)
Immunities; (12/27 enchants)
fire
frost
shock
confuse
instant death
blind
fear
charm
polymorph
knockback (optional, really)
energy drain
paralysis
sleep
slow
curses

+2 energy to get to 8 total, (I'm pretty sure its 2 enchants with 10 STA) (14/27)

+5 Crit (19/27)

So now I have 8 enchants for stats, I'll get my AGI to +3 for Blade Flurry, which will usually take me one enchant.

To be honest the rest of the enchants are STA or AGI and CHA as I get them
Thoughts and ideas for making this better would be helpful

Weapon Enchants:
Main: Fine Claw (Nightshade)
Instant Kill
D3 Physical
2D6 Shock

Offhand (Hateful)
Instant Kill
2D6 Shock
2D6 Fire

Staff (orbus bombus)
+1 STA
+1 CHA
D3 Spell

My main source of income is still getting to the point of scripting/scribe charm and selling master recharge scrolls

I'll also buy and keep every empty potion I find and use the potion charm to always keep a potent potion of each stat and a potent willpower potion.

So once i get everything set up I'll always have a buff of +5 to each stat.

I like to also, once I max out and get all the spells from the knowledge loop will get a replacement robe and cowl for my body armor and get a bl Free action to be able to run as a mage, then switch to dual bl fortitude rings with health enchants.


Thoughts, Ideas, Arguments? I welcome them all!

[hajdupet]

This game drives me crazy. Just finished heroic as a mage and now trying the assassin build.

first to comment your build:
the shield ring is not a good deal after mid game. damage renders your abilities not usable and there are far better options. Haste, or the ring which gives you 30% of damage back es health... 30-50 buffer is not does not really matter with a life force of 80-100 with decent healing options and alternative shields.
charisma each point means 15-20% better selling prices. so my alternative weapons has +1 cha each and I have a ring with +2 in the backpack to switch at town. that is +4, +5 with the aura of grace...
STA is the main stat for everyone as the unbuffed value gives the base health... cha is only important for mage for above reasons. STR is not need for agility build so 7/11/10/7 is the perfect selection without buffs. Buffs should go for agility, till the extremes as damage bonus is not capped!
dragonhide - I am not a fan. dodge is caped at 4, casting is 2 if I remember well? sneak bonus is the same with blessed keys. for me it always wears down at worst time possible. Usually I go plain cloths. with sta 13 mage armors gives 3 for all, +1 from heritage, +1 from divine grace/might... 5 or 7 is not a real difference.

Mage is very easy when you have a shadow ring on and plane shift to escape. dual weapon for spellcasting, 12 STA and magic buffs gives average 25-30 splash damage in a single damage type - from a safe distance. electric orbs +haste stun locks everyone close as personal. Mage is a demigod but to reach that point on heroic.... is a disaster. Surviving till being able to craft a simple wand is 1 out of 20. you need to craft a wand to have an offensive spell, keen eyes to survive long enough, then farcast, common lit and only after that draconic and silent cast... good luck!

Assassin build - Even in heroic easy to build up the trick is to find all key gears in time... then issues with boss fights. Huge issues. Shadow is a must for easy floor cleanup but does not work where matters - with bosses. Same goes for furry - in case of boss fights it is very easy to run out of energy then to have half damage output. Also assassin damage comes from mixed source so high boss resistances will make you cry.
So generic gear - not for bosses is shadow ring, seven keys, immunity for treemen farming and ring of elements on 3rd leg. Nor ring of elements or immunity ring is important though - with shadow ring on only elementals can shock lock you and there is always time to swap out the ring as you can hear them...

immunities

must (5 only!)
-confuse
-blind
-fear
-instadeath
- polymorph (the least important but can be on weapons)

optional but must in case of boss fight
- paralyze
- stun
- shock


situational, must be able to switch
- curses
- disease / poison
- fire
- freeze
- shock (must in case of no shadow ring)


not needed at all
- slow
- sleep
- charm
- knockback
- energy drain
- life drain
- silence
- deafness

for the optimal build

weapon set
- dual claw with 2d6 fire, 2d6 electricity, 2d6 fire (bosses have immunities, this with furry and haste gives 7d6+agility bonus damage - 4 times! - actually not that good as sounds as bosses has high damage resistance... and it is applied in 4 categories several times...

This is the reason why extreme level of agility is recommended... agility damage bonus is not capped. d6+5 or d6+10 is a huge difference in case of damage resistance of 5... 2d6 elemental damage is nice, but average 7 in case of high resistance is not that impressive....

so 6*3 cloth gear, 3*3 rings and amulet, 27 slots.
5-7 goes for top immunities (5 main + paralyze+curse)
5 goes for increased critical
6 goes for + life
2 goes for extra light - good to avoid traps, makes mapping and escaping easier.
9-7 goes for abilities.... all for agility. oh boy 17 would give +10 damage, each hand, twice with furry!

one can debate about the weapon. having d3 physical, +2 agility, +2 critical from the 5 needed can open up for example +4d3 healing... I would assume loosing the 6d6 elemental does not matter at all... having (2d6+2d3+12+12)*2 from a single source might be better... problem with elemental damage is the need of artifacts and runes and still pretty much negated with boss resistence... non boss dies with a single hit anyway....

[Vinceathor]

You are correct in saying the assassin build is not useful when it comes to bosses. Honestly Once I get the knowledge loop and have every spell I will switch to a more mage build and THEN go bossing.

I'm seeing where you're coming from when talking about the weapons, It is definitely something I've done alot of changes to. I think with your build its more about damage, which is fantastic for bossing, while mine has the insta kill enchants with that being the main method of killing things.

There have been a few runs that I dont even get blade flurry and use my shadows/shielding to keep me alive until the insta kill takes.

So on the enchants I will never give up charm and curses because too many times Ive opened up a door and bam, hit with a curse. As for charm I was once charmed by a floaty and ended up dying without even getting paralyzed from the shock. Energy drain is usually a go to for me because of my heavy reliance on my energy as a shield, honestly im not even too sure what drains energy...

Great input though, I honestly was so dead set on the dragonhide and before hearing your side of it, would've never used anything else.

Thank you! Any other thoughts, commends, arguments?

[hajdupet]

today I played around with extreme agility build. Sadly +8 damage bonus with dual wide is the top. not enough to reach the damage potential of a mage. I am yet to farm the elemental charms but after switching from +1 agi +d3 phis to d6 fire d6 shock d6 forst not improvement at damage at all. I fully agree to switch from assassin to mage but i wanted to try the true potential of a crazy maxed assassin. My current one is okay and soon goes against the king... but the goal is not to use any wands nor spells to damage. just for fun.
I was thinking about blessed shield. 8*5 40 extra life is about 6 enchantment slot of life. actually not bad... on a clearcasting mage it is perfectly reasonable but for assassin I am still not convinced. In case of seven keys is used I would badly miss haste. But now I cold not resist nebbin which is actually giving 3 useful stat increase and 5 immunities/bonus which makes sense... that is actually 8 slots while blessed shield is 6+2=8 slot in that sense for much less farming. And with energy potion you can raise it back very efficiently. so blessed version on mage is sold for me.

[Calfax]

Originally posted by hajdupet:

today I played around with extreme agility build. Sadly +8 damage bonus with dual wide is the top. not enough to reach the damage potential of a mage. I am yet to farm the elemental charms but after switching from +1 agi +d3 phis to d6 fire d6 shock d6 forst not improvement at damage at all. I fully agree to switch from assassin to mage but i wanted to try the true potential of a crazy maxed assassin. My current one is okay and soon goes against the king... but the goal is not to use any wands nor spells to damage. just for fun.
I was thinking about blessed shield. 8*5 40 extra life is about 6 enchantment slot of life. actually not bad... on a clearcasting mage it is perfectly reasonable but for assassin I am still not convinced. In case of seven keys is used I would badly miss haste. But now I cold not resist nebbin which is actually giving 3 useful stat increase and 5 immunities/bonus which makes sense... that is actually 8 slots while blessed shield is 6+2=8 slot in that sense for much less farming. And with energy potion you can raise it back very efficiently. so blessed version on mage is sold for me.

You are looking at it wrong, you won't get max damage just by having enchantments or max modifer.
You need to use talents like silent move and slow and steady, blessed amulet of seven keys and blackthorne armor, those give 2x or 3x to your damage and that's where you get max damage.
Mage will never do more damage than str or agi, the max spell damage you can get is 60 and that gets reduced a lot by resistance where you get 20-40 ranges in damage.
Then you have slow and steady where you can do normal 80 damage shots and get some rolls of even 150 damage.
Check the build I posted some days ago, I explain all of this there.