Epic Battle Fantasy 4

Epic Battle Fantasy 4

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FurFanatic May 28, 2018 @ 7:32am
Without Anna?
Hello i started playing again, this time without anna. Does it work for you?
So the team is like Matt, Lance and Natalie
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sargatanus May 28, 2018 @ 1:11pm 
That's pretty much how I play once all four are available. I keep Anna eqiupped to revive folks (because once she comes out, things are pretty dire) and that's about it.
TheAwesomeStuff May 28, 2018 @ 9:48pm 
On Epic? No. Anna is pretty much necessary on that difficulty because she's the only party member who can cast Reflex, which buffs your party's evade. And since Matt and Natalie have much stronger physical and magic attacks, respectively, you can just give all the Ham to Matt and all the Cake to Natalie. With Lance, you're gonna have to split the Ham between Matt and Lance and the Cake between Natalie and Lance. Also, Anna can learn Revive and Guardian while Lance cannot.

Basically, you'll want to slap all the support/debuff skills on Anna (sans Protect and Barrier), let Matt dish out physical damage, let Natalie heal and dish out magic damage, while leaving Lance as backup for emergencies
FurFanatic May 29, 2018 @ 5:02am 
Originally posted by TheAwesomeStuff:
On Epic? No. Anna is pretty much necessary on that difficulty because she's the only party member who can cast Reflex, which buffs your party's evade. And since Matt and Natalie have much stronger physical and magic attacks, respectively, you can just give all the Ham to Matt and all the Cake to Natalie. With Lance, you're gonna have to split the Ham between Matt and Lance and the Cake between Natalie and Lance. Also, Anna can learn Revive and Guardian while Lance cannot.

Basically, you'll want to slap all the support/debuff skills on Anna (sans Protect and Barrier), let Matt dish out physical damage, let Natalie heal and dish out magic damage, while leaving Lance as backup for emergencies

This works? On battle mountain too?. I dont use her because i thought everything important that she can do can lance do as well. Yes Reflex IS handy but it doesnt work for me :I.

Could you go into detail how you build the team around Anna?

It would be very nice of you, but thanks for your post :steamhappy:
Chronos Notashi May 29, 2018 @ 8:06pm 
As far as I'm aware, you don't really build a team around Lance OR Anna. At the end of the day, both of them end up filling a support role, since Matt and Natalie greatly out-damage them. All that matters is the kind of support you want them to cover.

Anna's biggest advantage over Lance is that Anna's Reflex buffs the entire team's evade, while Lance has no way to boost Evade outside of items (items typically apply the maximum 70% though, so it's not a HUGE issue unless you're tight on cash, and it's honestly better for Lance to use them while Matt and Natalie use their own setup skills at the start). Anna can also apply Bless with her healing spell, which prevents that ally from being afflicted with status problems (doesn't cleance them though, so Cleanse/Purify are a must for her), and she's also the best user for Talisman Seal (especially since her only other physical Holy skill can occasionally be more dangerous for her than for the enemy). Oh, and there's also her three elemental arrows, so that's a plus. Fire Spin isn't that great for her damage-wise since it's Magic damage, but it's the only fire skill she can get, and the defense debuff helps her and Matt more than it helps Lance. Same goes for Fright and Screamer, since their only practical use is the MDef debuff to boost Natalie's damage (only her and Matt can use it, and neither of them are good with magic).

That's not to say that Lance doesn't have his advantages, though. For starters, he has the accuracy buff right off the bat (Anna can learn it as well, but that means she'll have to waste extra turns and MP buffing everyone. Besides, she has the same MP/cost-efficient effectiveness with ACC drinks as Lance does with EVA drinks if accuracy is a concern). He's a decent candidate for Holy Fire and Dark Flare from a damage/support perspective (from a damage-only perspective, Natalie has better Holy/Dark spells, making Holy Fire/Dark Flare a no-brainer for Lance, despite him having better damage-only options for the latter), his healing skill cleases status problems (can be useful in some battles), Double Shot and Unload give him GREAT utility when paired with the right guns (same thing for Anna with her bows and Triple Shot/Multi Shot, but Lance gets particular notice since a couple of his weapons can reduce stats or even insta-kill), and he is a MUCH better user of Power/Death Metal than Matt is thanks to having higher natural Magic and more easily-accessible magic boosts (I mean, Matt can use it as well, but the damage AND healing will be poor without SOME magic investment. And frankly, Swift Slash with a Wind weapon is enough for Matt if he REALLY needs to hit more than one enemy). The latter in particular makes him better than Anna for the Rainbow Rafflesia battle even on Epic (with the right maxed equipment setup, and maybe a cake or two (can still manage even without cake investment), Lance's Power Metal and Death Metal handle a majority of the healing on their own, leaving Natalie free to work on DPS). Oh, and being support, he's a MUCH better candidate for Solar Flare and Debilitate (honestly, you only want to give Natalie those two skills if you're NOT planning to use Lance frequently), so there's that as well.


Honestly, my advice is to have one or the other as a main support, but don't COMPLETELY neglect the other one. You never know when you'll need the other's abilities for certain battles.


Edit: Added some more info and corrected a few parts. I forgot that Lance is the only character who can't learn Guardian. I think Matt's the better character for learning the skill, though. Mostly because, for one, if you're REALLY serious about a Turn 1/2 advantage with Anna, you're likely going to have Matt and Natalie with Protect/Barrier anyway, meaning that Reflex is all that Anna really needs. Also, I feel Matt needs SOMETHING for when he can't go physical DPS on certain enemies, someone gets revived and needs a buff ASAP (especially if he's the only one with a turn if Anna/Lance/Natalie have bigger priorities), or Lance or Anna switch in and need a quick buff while they do what they need to do at that time.
Last edited by Chronos Notashi; May 30, 2018 @ 2:04am
FurFanatic May 30, 2018 @ 5:07am 
Originally posted by Chronos Notashi:
As far as I'm aware, you don't really build a team around Lance OR Anna. At the end of the day, both of them end up filling a support role, since Matt and Natalie greatly out-damage them. All that matters is the kind of support you want them to cover.

Anna's biggest advantage over Lance is that Anna's Reflex buffs the entire team's evade, while Lance has no way to boost Evade outside of items (items typically apply the maximum 70% though, so it's not a HUGE issue unless you're tight on cash, and it's honestly better for Lance to use them while Matt and Natalie use their own setup skills at the start). Anna can also apply Bless with her healing spell, which prevents that ally from being afflicted with status problems (doesn't cleance them though, so Cleanse/Purify are a must for her), and she's also the best user for Talisman Seal (especially since her only other physical Holy skill can occasionally be more dangerous for her than for the enemy). Oh, and there's also her three elemental arrows, so that's a plus. Fire Spin isn't that great for her damage-wise since it's Magic damage, but it's the only fire skill she can get, and the defense debuff helps her and Matt more than it helps Lance. Same goes for Fright and Screamer, since their only practical use is the MDef debuff to boost Natalie's damage (only her and Matt can use it, and neither of them are good with magic).

That's not to say that Lance doesn't have his advantages, though. For starters, he has the accuracy buff right off the bat (Anna can learn it as well, but that means she'll have to waste extra turns and MP buffing everyone. Besides, she has the same MP/cost-efficient effectiveness with ACC drinks as Lance does with EVA drinks if accuracy is a concern). He's a decent candidate for Holy Fire and Dark Flare from a damage/support perspective (from a damage-only perspective, Natalie has better Holy/Dark spells, making Holy Fire/Dark Flare a no-brainer for Lance, despite him having better damage-only options for the latter), his healing skill cleases status problems (can be useful in some battles), Double Shot and Unload give him GREAT utility when paired with the right guns (same thing for Anna with her bows and Triple Shot/Multi Shot, but Lance gets particular notice since a couple of his weapons can reduce stats or even insta-kill), and he is a MUCH better user of Power/Death Metal than Matt is thanks to having higher natural Magic and more easily-accessible magic boosts (I mean, Matt can use it as well, but the damage AND healing will be poor without SOME magic investment. And frankly, Swift Slash with a Wind weapon is enough for Matt if he REALLY needs to hit more than one enemy). The latter in particular makes him better than Anna for the Rainbow Rafflesia battle even on Epic (with the right maxed equipment setup, and maybe a cake or two (can still manage even without cake investment), Lance's Power Metal and Death Metal handle a majority of the healing on their own, leaving Natalie free to work on DPS). Oh, and being support, he's a MUCH better candidate for Solar Flare and Debilitate (honestly, you only want to give Natalie those two skills if you're NOT planning to use Lance frequently), so there's that as well.


Honestly, my advice is to have one or the other as a main support, but don't COMPLETELY neglect the other one. You never know when you'll need the other's abilities for certain battles.


Edit: Added some more info and corrected a few parts. I forgot that Lance is the only character who can't learn Guardian. I think Matt's the better character for learning the skill, though. Mostly because, for one, if you're REALLY serious about a Turn 1/2 advantage with Anna, you're likely going to have Matt and Natalie with Protect/Barrier anyway, meaning that Reflex is all that Anna really needs. Also, I feel Matt needs SOMETHING for when he can't go physical DPS on certain enemies, someone gets revived and needs a buff ASAP (especially if he's the only one with a turn if Anna/Lance/Natalie have bigger priorities), or Lance or Anna switch in and need a quick buff while they do what they need to do at that time.


Whoa... Thank you very much. Tho who would you suggest being usefull more. Who is better the most time Anna or Lance?
Last edited by FurFanatic; May 30, 2018 @ 5:08am
Chronos Notashi May 31, 2018 @ 2:38am 
Usually it's Anna for my current save file, but again, it depends on how much you invest into them and how frequently you tend to use them. I don't use Lance a whole lot, so I keep my investments with him low, but I do have a few battles where I switch him in or have him in the starting/main lineup. The Rainbow Rafflesia battle I mentioned is one example, and I even tried him against Dark Matt using his earth gun (the one that can debuff Atk and can randomly trigger Sand Dune for a possible ACC debuff) with Double Shot/Unload. Worked decently well at keeping the damage my team took low. I'll have to see how well it works on Epic, though. First time on Epic I used Anna/Matt/Natalie for the fight and relied on Tired status and such to try to keep stats low. Somewhat worked, but I had to be lucky AND survive until the debuffs were large enough that none of my team members were getting one-shot into oblivion.
Last edited by Chronos Notashi; May 31, 2018 @ 2:39am
popish10 May 31, 2018 @ 3:52am 
Originally posted by ( ._.):
Who is better the most time Anna or Lance?

Mostly Anna since she has a lot supportive abilities like reflex or refresh.

As for Lance, that really depends on what shared skills that you want to teach to him. I usually gave all the debuff abilities and syphon to him.
Last edited by popish10; May 31, 2018 @ 4:00am
Natzor May 31, 2018 @ 9:50am 
Originally posted by ( ._.):

Whoa... Thank you very much. Tho who would you suggest being usefull more. Who is better the most time Anna or Lance?
I'd just stick with Anna tbh, anything Lance can do, Anna does better (He can't even learn Guardian, which is one of the best single target defensive buffs in the game - Good when enemies single target dispels your buffs). The only thing that makes lance good is that he is a jack of all trades type of character (can do both physical and magic damage, however his magic damage is either medium aoe damage in Fire/Dark/Lightning or good single target in the same elements with a 1/3 of the main target's damage being spread onto other enemies).

Somebody mentioned Reflex being Anna's best trait, but tbh, her Limit Mother earth is probably the best skill on her, simply because Bless status is OP (you can't be hit by any status ailments including Instant death and Dispel). not only that her Main single target healing spell also gives bless status (for 3 turns). Considering about 70% of every monster in the game uses some sort of status ailment, you can reduce quite alot of hazzard just by using Anna.
FurFanatic May 31, 2018 @ 11:25pm 
Thank you all this was very helpfull. Il do my run with lance (what i regret) because ive invested in him. In future runs (newgame + etc) I will use Anna. Thanks to you all for your time :steamhappy: It helped me very much (Bad english)
Arkhne Jun 7, 2018 @ 2:48pm 
Lance is actually a better mage than Natalie in every way that matters. If there is one completely redundant battle character in this game, it's Natalie. Lance's skills far exceed Natalie's for power, particularly for bosses. Anna can learn the healing spells if you un-learn them from Natalie, and lance gets medkit, power metal, and death metal, which when combined with a Vortex gun and Mage Hat, will out-heal Natalie, whilst severely damaging anything not resistant to Wind.

Anna brings some pretty useful utility abilities, though competes with Matt for Ham for damage dealing purposes. So I personally wouldn't skip out on her.
FurFanatic Jun 8, 2018 @ 5:04am 
This sounds interesting never thought of that :)
Arkhne Jun 18, 2018 @ 4:38pm 
Originally posted by ( ._.):
This sounds interesting never thought of that :)

Most people don't. If they've played any other games in the series, Natz is too "valuable" to ignore, as the main healer. However, if you look closely, the Healing spells in this game can be un-learnt from her, and Lance's skills have a higher skill-power (sometimes at a lower Elemental% though). The magical skills from Battle Mountain that Natz can learn can also apply to Lance, and they help his elemental coverage just as much. Only "unique" things Natz brings is Charm buff, but Milk exists, and a clickable sprite.

I don't skip anybody, but I do like to get people to think about this differently, Natz is pretty.... popular, and Anna and Lance are both often left out of matters, which is sad.
FurFanatic Jun 19, 2018 @ 4:56am 
Yes it is indeed pretty sad that they get left out. Thanks
Chronos Notashi Jun 20, 2018 @ 1:34am 
Originally posted by Warchild:
Only "unique" things Natz brings is Charm buff, but Milk exists, and a clickable sprite.

And like I said before, Anna's "unique" advantage of having Reflex, and by extent Guardian's EVA-boosting benefit, can be neutralized by using Energy Drinks (which iirc gives max EVA boost). And in SOME cases, Matt's advantage of being a physical powerhouse and having Temper could potentially be nulified by simply building Anna as a physical DPT character and having someone else give her Beer (though you'd have to go without the Brave status tied to that ATK boost, though a summon can cover that iirc). Not to mention that Anna can also use Protect and steal Matt's only true form of support (as well as having Screamer to benefit Lance and Natalie, and higher M. Atk to use it better than Matt), and Thunder Arrow is typically better than Spark/Big Spark in terms of overall usefulness (though Anna can even steal THAT from Matt if you REALLY dislike him). She can also steal some of Lance's fire by using Lock-On instead of him (though if you plan to use Lance at all, this is actually a bad idea, and you're better off using Softdrink if you need an extra ACC buff). All depends on how you like to build each character, honesty.


With that out of the way, I'm pretty sure the main reason that Natalie is typically considered a better magic user than Lance isn't really due to pure offensive magic power (though getting at LEAST a +40% increase in M. Atk with all weapons except the Oak Staff when maxed and 50%+ with the elemental staffs one usually uses with her helps). The main reasons are that, compared to Lance, 100% of Natalie's magic damage with her natural skills is affected by the enemy's resistances (both a pro and a con, but it typically means she can draw out more power against an enemy that's particularly weak to an element, especially when paired with a weapon that boosts that element's damage), and she typically has a wider range of elements compared to Lance when looking at their unique skills alone (and even when looking at shared skills, Holy Fire's still weaker than Judgement, its only advantage being the dispel and M.Def debuff, which can be covered elsewhere, and some of the better single-multi target magic skills can either be used by either of them, or are exclusive to one of the two when not including Matt/Anna. The Gaia line for Natalie gets special mention, as the only earth option Lance has is Sand Dune, which is a physical skill). Also, having access to Kyun and the ever-useful Genesis (the latter especially against the Dark characters) gives her quite the edge over Lance. Furthermore, Natalie's Fireball/Firestorm and Thunderbolt/Thunderstorm beat Lance's Flame Shot/Burst and Plasma Shot/Wave respectively in damage (though in the case of the latter, Lance can tie with Thunderbolt if he learns Plasma Cage, with the added bonus of having a stun skill not locked to a weapon, though at twice of Thunderbolt's MP cost), and Bullet Hell and Plasma Field's damage are centered on one target (not bad for bosses, but it can be a hinderance if you're trying to clear out a group of enemies or boss mooks quickly).

She also has Spectrum, which uses her weapon's element and effect, meaning she's guaranteed to do some damage with the skill against any enemy with less than 200% resistance to an element (since all of her elemental staffs have 50% element) while also giving her a chance to use another spell at no additional cost. Even ones she may not know yet or CAN'T learn normally. This, unironically, gives her EVEN MORE base magical element coverage compared to Lance, since she can switch to a weapon with an element she needs, or a weapon with no element but a trigger she can use, and use Spectrum for some decent magic damage and a potential skill trigger. Don't misunderstand me when I mention elemental coverage. Lance gets elemental coverage as well. However, it's more focused on the physical side, since Snipe, Double Shot, Unload, and Crush are his only decently-reliable skills that use his weapon's element and effect (with Double Shot boosting the effect of his weapon), and Hyper Bean takes too long and costs too much MP to be reliable in a difficult battle. Honestly, much like with the move in Pokemon of the same name, the time it takes for him to properly use Hyper Beam is time better used doing ANYTHING ELSE (unless he LITERALLY has nothing better to do with that turn he needs to charge up, but be ABSOLUTELY SURE that you'll be able to commit to it and actually fire off the skill without diverting his attention elsewhere).


Lance's primary advantage over Natalie in terms of DPS potential is that he can work as a Physical/Magic hybrid (since all but two of his weapons boost both ATK AND M.ATK), and he can have some pretty decent setup capabilities when paired with the right weapon (ex: Snipe/Double Shot/Unload with Quake Maker for potential ATK/ACC debuffs on top of whatever other debuffs he's packing), while Natalie is strictly Magic-focused with not much setup potential outside of the first few rounds of buffing (though with the exception of Barrier/Charm, Anna could typically setup for Natalie by debuffing the enemy's M.Def before she attacks). Furthermore, while Lance's elemental damage doesn't scale as well as Natalie's does, much like Matt he's typically guaranteed to do SOME damage against an enemy even if his elemental damage is negated, while Natalie NEEDS to be using the right element AND the right staff for the job, or her damage could be completely negated, unless she's using Spectrum.


As for Heal and Healmore, yeah, they can be unlearned from Natalie. However 1) that's not something restricted to just Natalie's Heal/Healmore (Matt's Protect isn't unique to him, I already mentioned Lock-On, and Anna's Gaia line is better used with Natalie), and 2) Anna already has Refresh (with the added benefit of status and insta-death negation for a few turns to compensate for the lower heal rate), meaning she'd literally only take Heal for Healmore, Lance has Medipak (heal+cleanse) and is a better Power/Death Metal user than Matt (at least when Wind-resistant enemies are absent), meaning he has NO need for Healmore unless you're really concerned about wind-resistant enemies, and Matt shouldn't even be TRYING to heal in the first place (unless it's with food items, and even then you should only have him use healing items if you REALLY need them and/or he's wearing the Casual Shirt for the 2x boost). So, really. Who else are you going to give them to?
Last edited by Chronos Notashi; Jun 20, 2018 @ 2:42am
Arkhne Jun 20, 2018 @ 5:30am 
^^Literally says Natalie is better than Lance because she is better vs Trash mobs. Riiight. If you're having difficulty with Trash Mobs, the problem doesn't lie with your characters. Only effectiveness vs bosses matters.

As I said, I use all 4 in most games, so Natalie keeps her healing. Lance is built as a mage , and Anna is built as Physical Support.

And whilst a lot of the actual facts (beyond subjective opinion) in your post is correct, I do have to point out your unfair dismissal of Lance's mage equips, they're a lot better than you give them credit for (And his mage weapons actually have MORE magic power than Natalie's.)

Examples: Mage Hat: 25% Magic, 50% MP, 100% Syphon Resist, boost Healing spells (Dark Bauble is 30% 100% Death Resist), Red Jacket: 40% Magic, 100% Dispel Resist (Dark Gown 30% 100% Death Resist),

For Weapons, most of Natalie's Elemental Weapons are 50-55% Magic, Lance's are mostly 60%, for some special cases: Ultra Zapper: 60% magic Power, MP: 30%. 50% resist 3 main elements, MP absorption (Crystal Staff: 60% magic power, 20% MP, 30% resist 3 main elements, counter with Lucky star), close, but Ultra Zapper is better. Vortex Cannon: 90% Magic Attack, boost Wind Skills (Mystic Breeze: 40% Magic Attack, 50% SP, 100% Syphon Resist, MP Absorption), OK, this one is pretty close too, just depends on what armour you're wearing, Syphon resist is pretty damned good (as is MP Absorption), though 90% Raw Magic bonus is pretty nice, I might actually give this one to Natalie. Shadow Blaster: 80% Magic Attack, 100% Death protection. (Hela's Staff: 100% Magic Attack, with a few negatives that don't amount to much, imho), also pretty close, but instant-death protection is a must vs certain bosses, so this one goes to Lance. Also, having mentioned Hyper Beam, I will make note of the Accelerator here, which has a decent chance of applying Charge status "randomly": 60% Magic Attack, 50% resist main 3 elements. I also like the Shooting Star for Natalie, which doesn't really have an equivalent on Lance (Probably because Mage Hat + Red Jacket is 100% Syphon and Dispel resistance): 70% Magic, 100% Syphon and Dispel Resist, boosts non-Elemental, casts Lucky Star, randomly casts Star Shower. I like it due to being good vs varied trash mobs, and those resists are pretty noteworthy vs some of the more annoying bosses, combined with a Dark Bauble gives great resists for the "Dark" bosses on Battle Mountain.


By the sounds of it, you've never even given Lance a chance, and gimped him to "hybrid role", his true strength is in anti-boss magical DPS, if you're giving him a weapon/armour/hat that supports his physical abilities, he will perform less than desired. If you've given ALL your cake to Natalie, then of course his damage will suffer. I do suggest that if this is the case, you give him a fair go as a mage, give him his fair share of cake, give him mage armour/hat (there is some surprisingly potent male magic equips), and equip the correct elemental mage weapon (there are plenty of options for that), not hybridize, then discuss his damage potency. Lance WILL consistently outdamage Natalie against bosses, just as Matt will usually out-damage Anna (there's a few exceptions, depending on how much of the Bacon share you give her).


Like you said "All depends on how you like to build each character, honesty.", if you gimp a character, of course they will be gimped. And Lance is almost always gimped by people who fail to recognize his Magical Potential (I did at first). Lance can learn basically every extra spell that Natalie can learn, so their elemental coverage is almost identical, and depends entirely on how you split the spells, claiming that she has "better coverage" because of spectrum, is just avoidance, if Spectrum is your best offense, Natalie might not be the best choice for that fight.
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