MRBM's useless?

[DONAR]

It there something wrong with MRBM's? Every time I use them, no matter of it is against buildings/installations or ground units, they hardly do any damage. Enemy military bases can repair faster than I can damage it with 3 MRBM TEL vehicles. I think that's a bit absurd. On the other hand SRBM's actually do work and do damange. So idk whart the deal is.

[Phobos548]

Try the upgrade for the onboard inertial navigation system.
Because the missiles a travelling a long distance, they a pretty inaccurate. Especially if your a using non nuclear warheads.

[DONAR]

Originally posted by Phobos548:

Try the upgrade for the onboard inertial navigation system.
Because the missiles a travelling a long distance, they a pretty inaccurate. Especially if your a using non nuclear warheads.

will do, thanks

[Casual]

Originally posted by Phobos548:

Try the upgrade for the onboard inertial navigation system.
Because the missiles a travelling a long distance, they a pretty inaccurate. Especially if your a using non nuclear warheads.

I just checked the description for the Improved Inertial Guidance tech and that is precisely what is happening, it upgrades the conventional MRBM and explicitly says that without it, MRBMs aren't good against "hardened point targets like bases" unless you keep teching them to higher levels

[DONAR]

Originally posted by Casual:

Originally posted by Phobos548:

Try the upgrade for the onboard inertial navigation system.
Because the missiles a travelling a long distance, they a pretty inaccurate. Especially if your a using non nuclear warheads.

I just checked the description for the Improved Inertial Guidance tech and that is precisely what is happening, it upgrades the conventional MRBM and explicitly says that without it, MRBMs aren't good against "hardened point targets like bases" unless you keep teching them to higher levels

Been testing them for a while now, to me they still seem useless. SRBM's still work way better for some reason.

[Rin Palora]

I've been using the MRBM's from the Ballistic Missile Site as a crutch and they seem to do quite well, flattening a lot of stuff even in Korea, tho different targets need different ammo and you do need numbers (military bases take a lot more dmg from gas, conventional warheads do well against airbases, radar sites, checkpoints).

But since I had the time I did do some tests at Cuba campaign mission 2, with Inertial Guidance against observed targets, the results were interesting to say the least... damage appears to be somewhat random, randomness increases when the target isn't observed, usually less damage than when observed.

SRBM are the most more reliable, MRBM are middling, Ballistic Sites are the least reliable. Reliability is target dependent. More is better, my 6 ballistic sites in Korea were more than able to destroy airbases alone relatively fast.

Things to keep in mind:
1) SRBMs are very short ranged, from Tampa they don't even reach Santiago de Cuba in Cuba. MRBMs in the same position cover Cuba, all of the Carribean Sea, Porto Rico, all of Central America and a bit of South America.
2) 1 Ballistic Sites cost only as much as 1 SRBM TEL in points (30 both, MRBM is 48) but more in time (31s to 21s TEL SRBM vs 51 for TEL MRBM). Ofc ballistic sites require Engineers to be redeployed.
3) Ballistic Sites can use ALL missiles, both SRBM and MRBM, conventional, chemical, biological, nuclear.
4) AI reacts a lot more aggressive when attacked by non-conventional means. Annectodal evidences seems to suggest they will be sending planes to attack the SRBMs. (lost both of mine in South America that way when they fired Mustard).
5) all of the results may be anecdotal. In the grand scheme of things I may have gotten lucky or unlucky.
6) (new edit) SRBM TELs are air transportable from military bases, MRBM TELs are not, Ballistic Missile Sites inside Engineers are... which means a Military Base can deploy 3 Engineers each with 3 BMS inside them for a total of 9 sites delivered in one go (vs just 3 SRBM TELs).

(reloading the game after 1 shoot)
1x SRBM TEL vs 1 SAM.
test 1 - 1 shoot took out the SAM.
test 2 - same 1 SRBM TEL did 1/4 damage to the same SAM
test 3 - 1 shoot kill again
test 4 - 1 shoot kill.
test 5 - 2/3 damage
test 6 - 3/4 dmg.

1x MRBM TEL vs same SAM (engaging at minimum range)
test 1 - miss, no damage.
test 2 - 1 shoot kill
test 3 - 1 shoot kill
test 4 - 1 shoot kill
test 5 - 1 shoot kill
test 6 - 1 shoot kill

1x Ballistic Missile Site using SRBM (same range as the MRBM TEL)
test 1 - hit, 1/2 (55% dmg)
test 2 - hit, 1/2 (55% dmg)
test 3 - hit, 1/2 (55% dmg)
test 4 - hit, 1/2 (55% dmg)
test 5 - 2nd shoot, miss, no dmg,
test 6 - 3rd shoot, hit, 1/2 (55% dmg) but it was already repaired to 90% (~40% hp remains)
test 7 - 4th shoot, hit, kill

1x Ballistic Missile Site using MRBM (same range as the MRBM TEL, minimum MRBM range)
test 1 - miss, no dmg
test 2 - miss, no dmg
test 3 - miss, no dmg
test 4 - miss, no dmg
test 5 - miss, no dmg
test 6 - 2nd shoot without loading the game to maybe give it fire adjustment.
miss, miss, miss. miss, miss, I think I got a defected one, miss, hit 1 shoot.

2nd BMS MRBM much further away: miss, miss, miss, 1 shoot.

======================================================
Damage over time test vs Army Base
==
2x SRBM TEL, first launch at 29:47 mission time remaining (MTR)
- 1st hit, minimal dmg, 1/10th ish,
-- follow up shoots beat repair, slightly.
--- target destroyed at 20:54 time left. 9 minutes, 17 seconds.

2x MRBM TEL, first launch... of tactical nuclear missile by mistake ^^ resetting.
first launch at 29:46
- volley 1, miss, no dmg
- 2, no dmg
- 3, minimal dmg, 1/10th ish
- 4,5, no dmg
- 6 minimal dmg.
- bombardment continues till 20:44 MTR, misses are the norm, very few hits, very few times when both hit in the same volley (dmg 3/10 when that happens).
- damage over time unable to beat repair.

2x Ballistic Missile Site using SRBM, first launch 29:50 MTR
- volley 1, both missiles hit, dmg 2/10
- 2, 2 hits
- 3, 1 hit
- dmg similar to SRBM TEL
- target destroyed 25:43 MTR

2x Ballistic Missile Site using MRBM, first launch 29:48 MTR
- volley 1, 1 hit, minimal dmg, 1/10
- 2, 1 hit
- bombardment continues till 20:44 MTR, misses are the norm, very few hits, little dmg, repairs beat damage.

Damage over time vs Airbase
2x SRBM TEL , first launch at 29:47 MTR
- 2 hits, 1/3 dmg
- 2 hits, 2/3 total dmg, repairs included
- 2 hits, 6/7 total dmg, repairs included
- target destroyed 28:50 MTR

2x MRBM tel, first launch at 29:47 MTR
- hit, probably just 1, 1/6 dmg
- 1 hit, 1/5 total dmg
- hit(s), 2/3 total dmg
- hit, miss, hit, hit,
-target destroyed 26:32 MTR

2x Ballistic Missile Site using SRBM, first launch at 29:48 MTR
- 2 hits, 1/3 dmg
- 2 hits, 2/3 dmg
- 2 hits, 5% hp left
- target destroyed 29:08 (1 missile was still otw) MTR

2x Ballistic Missile Site using MRBM, first launch at
- 2 hits, 1/6 dmg
- 1 hit, minimal extra dmg,
- target destroyed at 27:31 MTR after 1 entire missed volley

======================================================
Mustard Gas vs Military Base (TEL only)
==

2x SRBM TEL , first launch 29:47
- volley 1, 1/7th dmg, Cuban reaction extreme at gas attack, before they were more or less happy to take the conventional bombardment until the base was destroyed, now they launch conventional attacks using airplanes and ballistic missiles.
- target destroyed 26:42

======================================================
Overkill numbers
==

4x Ballistic Sites firing MRBMs at Army Base
- 1st volley, 1 of 4 hits, minimal dmg.
- damaged cannot beat repairs
(I already knew this, I usually use gas when attacking bases with MRBMs)

Switched to SRBMs, first launch at 25:48
- 1st volley, 1/5 dmg
- dmg barely exceeds repairs
- target destroyed at 20:13

[Mr.Chemistry]

Originally posted by Rin Palora:

I've been using the MRBM's from the Ballistic Missile Site as a crutch and they seem to do quite well, flattening a lot of stuff even in Korea, tho different targets need different ammo and you do need numbers (military bases take a lot more dmg from gas, conventional warheads do well against airbases, radar sites, checkpoints).

But since I had the time I did do some tests at Cuba campaign mission 2, with Inertial Guidance against observed targets, the results were interesting to say the least... damage appears to be somewhat random, randomness increases when the target isn't observed, usually less damage than when observed.

SRBM are the most more reliable, MRBM are middling, Ballistic Sites are the least reliable. Reliability is target dependent. More is better, my 6 ballistic sites in Korea were more than able to destroy airbases alone relatively fast.

Things to keep in mind:
1) SRBMs are very short ranged, from Tampa they don't even reach Santiago de Cuba in Cuba. MRBMs in the same position cover Cuba, all of the Carribean Sea, Porto Rico, all of Central America and a bit of South America.
2) 1 Ballistic Sites cost only as much as 1 SRBM TEL in points (30 both, MRBM is 48) but more in time (31s to 21s TEL SRBM vs 51 for TEL MRBM). Ofc ballistic sites require Engineers to be redeployed.
3) Ballistic Sites can use ALL missiles, both SRBM and MRBM, conventional, chemical, biological, nuclear.
4) AI reacts a lot more aggressive when attacked by non-conventional means. Annectodal evidences seems to suggest they will be sending planes to attack the SRBMs. (lost both of mine in South America that way when they fired Mustard).
5) all of the results may be anecdotal. In the grant scheme of things I may have gotten lucky or unlucky.

(reloading the game after 1 shoot)
1x SRBM TEL vs 1 SAM.
test 1 - 1 shoot took out the SAM.
test 2 - same 1 SRBM TEL did 1/4 damage to the same SAM
test 3 - 1 shoot kill again
test 4 - 1 shoot kill.
test 5 - 2/3 damage
test 6 - 3/4 dmg.

1x MRBM TEL vs same SAM (engaging at minimum range)
test 1 - miss, no damage.
test 2 - 1 shoot kill
test 3 - 1 shoot kill
test 4 - 1 shoot kill
test 5 - 1 shoot kill
test 6 - 1 shoot kill

1x Ballistic Missile Site using SRBM (same range as the MRBM TEL)
test 1 - hit, 1/2 (55% dmg)
test 2 - hit, 1/2 (55% dmg)
test 3 - hit, 1/2 (55% dmg)
test 4 - hit, 1/2 (55% dmg)
test 5 - 2nd shoot, miss, no dmg,
test 6 - 3rd shoot, hit, 1/2 (55% dmg) but it was already repaired to 90% (~40% hp remains)
test 7 - 4th shoot, hit, kill

1x Ballistic Missile Site using MRBM (same range as the MRBM TEL, minimum MRBM range)
test 1 - miss, no dmg
test 2 - miss, no dmg
test 3 - miss, no dmg
test 4 - miss, no dmg
test 5 - miss, no dmg
test 6 - 2nd shoot without loading the game to maybe give it fire adjustment.
miss, miss, miss. miss, miss, I think I got a defected one, miss, hit 1 shoot.

2nd BMS MRBM much further away: miss, miss, miss, 1 shoot.

======================================================
Damage over time test vs Army Base
==
2x SRBM TEL, first launch at 29:47 mission time remaining (MTR)
- 1st hit, minimal dmg, 1/10th ish,
-- follow up shoots beat repair, slightly.
--- target destroyed at 20:54 time left. 9 minutes, 17 seconds.

2x MRBM TEL, first launch... of tactical nuclear missile by mistake ^^ resetting.
first launch at 29:46
- volley 1, miss, no dmg
- 2, no dmg
- 3, minimal dmg, 1/10th ish
- 4,5, no dmg
- 6 minimal dmg.
- bombardment continues till 20:44 MTR, misses are the norm, very few hits, very few times when both hit in the same volley (dmg 3/10 when that happens).
- damage over time unable to beat repair.

2x Ballistic Missile Site using SRBM, first launch 29:50 MTR
- volley 1, both missiles hit, dmg 2/10
- 2, 2 hits
- 3, 1 hit
- dmg similar to SRBM TEL
- target destroyed 25:43 MTR

2x Ballistic Missile Site using MRBM, first launch 29:48 MTR
- volley 1, 1 hit, minimal dmg, 1/10
- 2, 1 hit
- bombardment continues till 20:44 MTR, misses are the norm, very few hits, little dmg, repairs beat damage.

Damage over time vs Airbase
2x SRBM TEL , first launch at 29:47 MTR
- 2 hits, 1/3 dmg
- 2 hits, 2/3 total dmg, repairs included
- 2 hits, 6/7 total dmg, repairs included
- target destroyed 28:50 MTR

2x MRBM tel, first launch at 29:47 MTR
- hit, probably just 1, 1/6 dmg
- 1 hit, 1/5 total dmg
- hit(s), 2/3 total dmg
- hit, miss, hit, hit,
-target destroyed 26:32 MTR

2x Ballistic Missile Site using SRBM, first launch at 29:48 MTR
- 2 hits, 1/3 dmg
- 2 hits, 2/3 dmg
- 2 hits, 5% hp left
- target destroyed 29:08 (1 missile was still otw) MTR

2x Ballistic Missile Site using MRBM, first launch at
- 2 hits, 1/6 dmg
- 1 hit, minimal extra dmg,
- target destroyed at 27:31 MTR after 1 entire missed volley

======================================================
Mustard Gas vs Military Base (TEL only)
==

2x SRBM TEL , first launch 29:47
- volley 1, 1/7th dmg, Cuban reaction extreme at gas attack, before they were more or less happy to take the conventional bombardment until the base was destroyed, now they launch conventional attacks using airplanes and ballistic missiles.
- target destroyed 26:42

======================================================
Overkill numbers
==

4x Ballistic Sites firing MRBMs at Army Base
- 1st volley, 1 of 4 hits, minimal dmg.
- damaged cannot beat repairs
(I already knew this, I usually use gas when attacking bases with MRBMs)

Switched to SRBMs, first launch at 25:48
- 1st volley, 1/5 dmg
- dmg barely exceeds repairs
- target destroyed at 20:13

Yea I think the best use for MRBMs by far is to take out Airbases. You can easily out-range them, and do not have to send planes risking interception from it's fighters.
In Mission 5 I bought 3 of the mobile ones at the start, popped them in Southern France and just systematically obliterated every single Warsaw Pact and Soviet airport one after the other. I highly, highly reccomend that strategy. It's a mit hit and miss with army bases though. I like hitting those with multirole fighters. Navies get absolutely bodied by Strat-Bomber launched ALBMs. They are just too fast to get intercepted most of the time and do enough damage to overpower any ship healing.

[Rin Palora]

That seem to be the case, MRBM's against SAM's and Airbases at long range.
SRBM for anything else IF you want to babysit them, basically arty following your armies around.
Silos if you are just gonna gas/nuke armies and want something cheap with long range or time isn't an issue or you can get a dozen of them.

[Mr.Chemistry]

Originally posted by Rin Palora:

That seem to be the case, MRBM's against SAM's and Airbases at long range.
SRBM for anything else IF you want to babysit them, basically arty following your armies around.
Silos if you are just gonna gas/nuke armies and want something cheap with long range or time isn't an issue or you can get a dozen of them.

I'd argue that MRBMs are not optimal against SAMs, not if you can use SEAD planes instead.
They're just insanely good at that and will easily outperform MRBMs in that task.

[Rin Palora]

We were discussing the TEL vehicles ^^.

But you get MRBMs before SEAD and SEAD can be intercepted. Sure SEAD are cheaper but they can only do one job, MRBMs are multirole of a sort with greater range :) . But hey, whatever works best for you, I tend to find planes to micro intensive.

[Mr.Chemistry]

True enough, but I mentioned it because the strat I use involves both. MRBMs first take out airfields, SEAD planes follow to take out any AA (without fighters to intercept SAMs are all but useless against a SEAD campaign). I feel like the game works best when you utilise multiple different modes of attack in combination.

[CheeseMerchant]

Encountered the same issue, like others said, MRBM's really rely on having the inertial guidance tech as well to make them remotely usefull.

[Rin Palora]

They arn't that bad, 6 of them absolutely flatten every Warsaw pact air base that's a threat from the safety of France in 2 volleys in Able Archer. They are just not good against Army Bases with conventional warheads.