Why I love Subnautica, dislike Below Zero, and have no interest in the next game.

[dragonbornzyra]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย ⎛ Alucard ⎞ ✟:

Whenever i ask why BZ is so "very very bad" i get silence and the negative reviews aren't any insightful either.

Hello Alucard. How's it going? Are you a fan of the original Hellsing, the Ultimate, or both? =) I haven't seen the reboot, can't say if it's good or bad, but then again never interested in it. I adored Hellsing for what it was in all its glory and for all its flaws.

Well, you may have better luck asking those questions on the Below Zero forum, but what I can do for ya, at least, is to answer your question myself here. I can tell you the reasons for me, personally, that drag Below Zero into the category of "very, very bad"

(Potential Spoilers)

Because you see, it isn't like Below Zero disappointed or didn't impress through any innocent fault of its own. It wasn't trying to "break new ground". It wasn't boldly going where no one had gone before. It didn't blindly strike out on its own path only to find itself met with a terrible fate.

It didn't break new ground, because it rode in on Subnautica's coattails, stood on its shoulders, and hoisted up by its praises, mechanics, solid gameplay loop, and established built-in fanbase and community. They already proved proof-of-concept for underwater survival exploration with Subnautica, and survival games, voiced protagonists, and stories, none of which are new or unique. Below Zero does not break any new ground or try to do anything that hasn't been attempted before, and done, better, with more success.

And it wasn't striking out blindly, on its own. It was in Early Access, and had access to the entire communities feedback, through every step of the process. They weren't "blind-sided" by any of the criticism or complaints. They were in fact, made well aware of them the e n t i r e time.

So, Below Zero did not just disappoint while trying its best to give us what we wanted. It disappointed, knowing what we wanted, but instead gave us what it wanted us to have. It knew vast portions if not majority of its community and player fanbase were against such things and choose to go forward and ahead with it anyway. It was their choice. They choose to fight on this hill. I do not pity them for "chosing this hill to die on"

To phrase metaphorically. Let me list off these things for myself and others:
(In no particular order)

*#1*----The map is smaller, horizontally. The map is also more shallow, never going as deep as the first game. And with so much land mass, both land we can traverse upon, and land mass in the form of impassable terrain, on top of a smaller map that is more shallow, there is even LESS "accesssable" volume of water to swim around than it even appears. It's worse than it seems. Because on top of everything being less, smaller, shallower, the limited space we DO have is clustered up with caves, tunnels, debris, terrain, rocks, ice burgs. There is very little space to actually move around. Subnautica made me feel tiny, insignificant, a speck of dust in the way cosmic order of things. Below Zero makes me feel like King of the aquarium and ruler of my domain. I expected more, and got less. Thus, disappointment. They knew about this.

*#2*----This ties into my previous point. The map is smaller. In every concieveable way. Height, width, depth, it's less on every angle. And everything is slower. Robins base swim speed. Robin's swim speed with fins. Lack of Ultraglide Fins. Seaglides speed. Seatruck's non-after burner speed. Seatruck Modules beyond 2nd w/ Horsepower upgrade. Pre Grapple Hook Prawn Suit. I even really, honestly feel like walking on land is slower. And the most egresious offense: They completely knee-capped the Booster tank, it is no longer either practical, nor fun to use. I can only speculate as to "why" I do know know for certain. But I will bet a lot of chips this is to compensate for the smaller map. To make it feel less tiny, player transportation options were nerfed across the board, so as to create some form of artifical depth to the game.

Perhaps players won't realize how small the map is if it takes them so long to go from point A to B. But some will see beyond that and notice how slow they actually are. I wasn't expecting to go f a s t e r in this game. But I certainly didn't expect to be hit with going s l o w e r. Because fast is fun, and slow is boring. This is a disappointment. No one, not one personed asked: Please make us slower in Below Zero. The speed nerf is a net drop to fun in the game.

*#3*----This ties into my previous TWO points, about map size and reduced speed. Both the enjoy from, and the desire to, explore in this game, are hampered and detrimented. Because the world map is so small, so shallow, and the player moves noticably slower than before, we have less to explore, and it takes longer to explore that less. So we get disappointed at seeing less, and we have no fun during this experience because its so slow.

Sure if we were quicker, it'd just mean players would sooner realize how small the map is, explore faster, beat the game faster, but gosh it might come at the consequence of having some more fun. It is a problem that is compounded by the game's other problems. "Ooo what's down this path" Dead end. "Ooo what's in that tunnel" It circles around. "Okay ooo that looks neat" Nothing in there. You start to realize your sense of anticipation and awe for what you find next is either answered with nothing, or, nothing compared to what you were expecting. Or, for me, at least. In a survival/exploration game, when you lose the desire or interest or satisfaction from exploring, there is a serious problem.

*#4*----This ties into the previous three points I've made (Noticing a theme?). This involves both tool/gear usage and vehicle access and performance as one point. And it's due to the map being so small, so shallow, you're so slow, and it's so unfun to go anywhere, and the sense of wonder and joy from exploration is ruined and soured by lack of "content", that there are several pieces of equipment and vehicles that on paper should be by every means fun and delightful to use but just are not. This is all off the top of my head, so I may forget some things and may need to edit this at a later date.
(This is Equipment/Tools/Deployables that are IN the game, not counting cut/missing/removed content)

Equipment:

Booster-Tank: Used to be fun. SO FUN. Used to feel very satisfying and rewarding to use. MUCH YES. MANY TRIUMPH. It made you go FAST. Speed = fun. Slow = boring. Go faster = more fun. More fun = yes. And it made you do a SUPERMAN POSE. Fly through the water! Bonus points! And it made you go faster, at the expense of Oxygen remaining in the tank. Meaning, you were forfeiting the amount of time you could spend underwater without drowning for the ability to go faster. It was a trade off. One that was both fun to use, and when done "properly", felt EXTREMELY rewarding saving yourself from dying, escpaing the maws of a Chelicerate, or rushing back in base in time to grab a snack to prevent death from starvation (however impractical that scenario may be)

However, it was pointed out that you could spam the Booster-Tank infinitely when at the surface of the water. Since the Booster-Tank used Oxygen as fuel to burn to go faster, and at the surface it was constantly "refilling" Players could zoom across on the surface of the water like they were using Jetskis. Now, that was "broken" in the sense it was not the player's intention for the Booster-Tank to function that way. It's intended use and current implimentation were broken. Not like it was OP, or broke the game balance in general. You could still only use it on the water's surface, it was only good for surface horizontal travel. Useless on land and useless underwater, it was more of a convenience than anything.

But this went against UWE's dogma for slowing the player down in every way possible in hopes no one would notice the pathetically small map. Can't let the player go faster. Can't let them have fun. Can't let them find a way to play or enjoy this game other than the one way we intend. So they nerfed the Booster-Tank. Only "works" under water. Burns through oxygen about 3x faster. Provides about 1/10th of the original thrust. It's useless. It is a literal waste of oxygen and might take you 20-40 feet before giving out. It's remarkably bad. Might as well have removed the Booster-Tank for the game as it serves no purpose, has no practiclity, and is no longer fun to use in any capacity. It's a tragedy what they did to this item, and how much FUN was taken from the game by it.

I really mean it. I can't let go how awful I hate the Booster-Tank now.

Fins: This is all you get. Unless they added in Ultraglide fins since I last played. You have no "options" between fins(I do not consider Swimcharge fins an option in Below Zero). There is no tactical choice or strategic use. You have one type of fins. You make them and put them on and forget about them because they make so little difference at all. They aren't fun. There's no sense of "Yeah ok I can swim a lil better with these" There's no tactical need or benefit from having them either. Disappointing.

Reinforced-Divesuit: It's "fun" enough in the sense it gives me an extra hit against Void Chelis and lets me experiment a lil further and give me more windows for mistakes or errors. But there's no creature in the game so dangerous, or an environment so hot/hostile/hazardous to warrant the use of the Reinforced Divesuit, so it's disappointing. In Subnautica, putting this on I knew I could avoid Acid Mushroom damage all together, and nullify Tiger Plant damage. Things I used to be terrified of. I could spend more time in the Lava Zone, I could more safely place Thermal Plants in geyser hot spots without fear of being one shot by an eruption. In general I could survive so much more with it on than with it off. I felt clever and wise by wearing this suit. I was giving up Radiation protection (lol) and the free water from the Stillsuit, but I got protection in return. It felt like a fair and good choice. In Below Zero, I feel nothing having it on. It's a let down. It has no special unique use. Or area that demands or warrants its use over any of the other suits.

Plus, NO GLOVES for the suit.

Stillsuit: What used to be an option of choice between valid suits and different gameplay styles, there's no reason to ever wear the still suit. There are many more wild flora and food sources everywhere, you are never at any point in water or on land ever far away from food you can just walk up to and pick and eat or a fish you can't just swipe and nom up. On top of quantity and access to so much food, the new food items offer thirst, hunger, health, and body heat bonuses, making them incredibly effective at over coming ALL survival obstacles, including damage. I feel silly drinking my own body fluids in this suit when there is no practical reason so ever to use the suit at all. When all the food I'd eat to recoup the lost hunger would replenish as much if not MORE thirst than the Still suit anyway, on TOP of giving Health/Body Heat bonuses as well.

Cold Suit: I'd feel good about using this suit, if it weren't for many things. The way of obtaining the resources to make it are abhorrently abritrary and unintuitive. All of my instincts on extracting Snowstalker Fur resulted in failure. Everything my instincts told me, my common sense, my years of video game experience, all let me down. Because I didn't know that ONLY a toy Radio Shack remote control penguin could extract and pluck the fur. Not our hands. Not a knife. Not a prawn suit. No other tool we have. But this robot is the one thing that can pull the fur off. A sucker punch is that you don't even NEED THE SPY PENGLING because later on, deeper in the land areas (where if you got that far congrats you no longer need cold protection) you find Snowstalker fur laying around in caves for you to pick up and use.

So when you finally survive the cold to get the resources to make the suit that lets you survive the cold................you got back to base, out of the cold. Make the suit. Then go back into the cold you were surviving in just fine. And think "Okay now with this suit on I can over come the next obstacle gating my progression" Except you realize theres no area so cold so far removed from any other source of heat that you'd need to use the Cold suit. I feel like a git wearing this thing and thinking about all I had to go through to get it and what very little, say, no good it's done me. Because Hot Peppers are everywhere. Heat you up. Nourish and quinch your thrist.

They are op, grow in clusters of 4-6, and are plentiful to find, and "regrow" fairly quickly. On top of this, they are also often found within the safety of warm caves, meaning you don't use them to save your life, but you pluck them and, since they don't spoil, carry them with you as free sources of portable heat when you get out in the cold. Making your Cold suit worthless. The Snowfox can also be folded up and taken with you, and deployed for an instant accessable source of body heat. Makes your Cold Suit worthless. You can carry as many coffee thermoses with you as you want, and each gives you 2 sips to top off your body heat. Why do you need the Coldsuit? Do you have 4-6 titanium and some quartz? Just drop an I Tube down with a Hatch and step inside to warm up. No need for your Cold suit.

And to top it all off, you just bring your Prawn suit instead. Bypassing any need to huddle in caves, drink coffee, shove Hot Pepper in your mouth, wear a cold suit bring your Snowfox, or build a base or outpost. The Cold Suit is not needed. It is not fun to use. I feel like an idiot for having ever made one. It's very disappointing.

[dragonbornzyra]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย WillieSea:

Before I buy a game I look at the review (don't really read them) but I do look at the number of hours each person played the game. To me that tells me if I might get my moneys worth out of the game.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย QueenPixxa:

...
I never finished BZ ...

this is very telling to me from somebody who seems to have enjoyed the first game.
I read your thesis first post, it was a good read on the issues with BZ.

That and I have a big beef with the developers from several years ago about the way they treated me when I reported a bug.

I'd love to read QP's thesis, link please?

[WillieSea]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย dragonbornzyra:

I'd love to read QP's thesis, link please?

Sorry, I fixed my post, it was your thesis I meant as the OP.

[Splattergutz]

Below Zero is the result of political correctness being forced into a follow up game where the devs/producers were aware that they'd have a huge market to push their own ideals.

Anyone who played SN expected the architects to be aggressive not a mate/buddy.

[Drizzt]

i still need to properly read the OP's entire explanation and the follow up discussions to get a full understanding of all of the negative points levelled against BZ (with most of which i doubt to have any strong disagreements)

and i have been aware of BZ's story weaknesses from the beginning of playing it

however, personally i do find BZ to be a very enjoyable game to play

now obviously much of that is down to the winning gameplay formula of the original

but i also find many aspects of BZ that help me to enjoy that gameplay in different ways - and it still ranks as one of my favourite games, purely on the strength of its gameplay - not as high up the list as the original, but also not far behind, and actually probably immediately following it in the rankings due to how similar they are to each other and how different they are to anything else

obviously the key weaknesses that i am sure many will agree with are the story integration that has replaced the silent protagonist with a single voiced character - since in the original the player character had no personality and was therefore fun and easy to roleplay - or at least provided no distractions from the immersion other than when their cartoonish silhouette was visible

the other weakness is the reduced scope of the play area, which has been coupled with reduced player speed and vehicle choice - in contrast to the massive ocean basin of the original, providing many cubic kilometres of freeform play area, and vehicles appropriate for that scale

however - i have been able to find pretty simply mitigations for both of these gripes

so far as the story and main character immersion go - yes, she can be annoying when she talks - but after the first few scenes, that is not a particularly common occurrence - and so for me it is just a mild distraction, and the majority of the game is carried out with the just the ambient sound effects, which are still great - and most of the rest of the story and vocal work is good - especially the logs from the wrecks - and personally i would love to see the next game in this series focus more on big impressive wrecks with logs to find and vital treasures or objectives to explore for

and as for the scope of the play area - yes, this game is pretty much totally different from the original in that respect - it is much more of a dungeon crawler than an open world - and i also found it a little more annoying to work out where i was meant be going on several occasions (especially on land) - however i did find that the reduced speed did not adversely affect my enjoyment of traversing the underwater map, pretty much due to it being a far less open and smaller play area, and so moving through it slower did not feel as slow as for example, taking the cyclops across long distances at medium speed (so as to not drain the batteries or attract too much attention)

but i do enjoy the different atmosphere, environments and playstyle of BZ - for me it is just a totally different game that simply shares the underwater crafting mechanics

i have said before that i find it best to think of SN and BZ as two very different games that share core mechanics - and core mechanics that no other game offers - and where each game can be enjoyed as its own game, providing its own enjoyment - rather than trying to get exactly the same type of fun from both

personally i do love exploring for the sea truck upgrades - which is pretty much the main quest for me - especially once i have the recyclotron and can transport lots of resources by compacting them into high density craftables to be separated later

i also like finding and exploring the pieces of the big wrecked ship, and finding its story

and just generally i enjoy the progression of gradually finding better and better equipment - even if some of it is not as rewarding as in the original - since some of it is more so

anyway - i will stop there

personally i am interested to see what someone for whom i bought SN as a gift makes of BZ - since they absolutely loved SN, and i was not sure if they would - but they really did

i expect they will enjoy BZ, likely sharing some of the frustrations that many of us had, but also enjoying some of the new things - as well as simply enjoying playing with SN mechanics in a different environment and with different objectives

i would say that my feelings when compared with the OP are:
I love Subnautica
I like Below Zero
I am mostly indifferent about any next game, but will likely be checking out the forums to see what people are saying about it - since it will be hard to not make a fun game with these mechanics in a new environment

anyway - coming back to this thread has inspired me to do another run through BZ (was previously playing SN again for a while), so that i can remind myself of all it has to offer so that i can finally read through this whole thread without too much danger of spoilers for stuff i never found or experimented with

i shall report back on completion of that task - and i shall let you know what level of fun i got :-)
(coz let's be honest, exploring around under water, collecting resources and crafting bases or vehicle upgrades is great fun - so the second best of these two games is still pretty great lol)

[Drizzt]

just going to add - just started playing BZ again - after having not played either SN or BZ for a little while - and having only been playing SN when last i played

and i'm loving it lol

i think it's because one of my favourite things about both games is the progression, and having to explore and scavenge to progress, and how that progression offers significant rewards of equipment and vehicles and base parts that allow the player to explore deeper and longer

so i'm an hour or so in and i now have my seatruck, the rebreather, a couple of high capacity tanks and the ability to build bases

and i haven't even visited delta base yet

so i think i'm ready to double down on declaring both of these games to be great, just with some significant differences

i think possibly they made a conscious effort to give the player more stuff earlier and more frequently in BZ just to overload that dopamine hit lol :-)

however, i am sure i will get a little annoyed once i hit the land parts of the game

and i think what sets the games apart is that SN has fewer distracting annoyances beyond some technical issues (mainly clipping) - whereas BZ has some annoying dialogue (i had forgotten about the PDA), and some tedious sections (SN has some frustrating sections, but BZ is definitely a worse offender)

however - both games have that awesome exploration, scavenging, crafting progression loop that i really enjoy

and BZ does have its own unique progression tree that is sufficiently different from SN, and set in a sufficiently different environment that both games really do stand alone

to conclude - i doubt i would disagree with people about many, if not most of the annoying parts of BZ - and would likely agree that SN has fewer things that i can point to as being particularly annoying

but still, i really do enjoy playing BZ

and it is arguably more polished, and even arguably more fun for certain aspects

but still - i do see its weaknesses - and when i first played it after having fallen in love with SN, i do recall having some initial negative feelings - but they really did wear off very quickly once i got into the game and found it still satisfied the main gameplay loop that i loved - and even improved on it in some respects

personally, i think if they had gone with another silent protagonist, and not tried to make the PDA voice crack jokes, that the other annoyances may have felt less significant

although due to the nature of the main plot, it was necessary for the protagonist to be able to engage in conversation

so maybe if they had written her differently, so that she could have had some more thoughtful discussions with Alan, and had a softer, more introspective tone when she talks to herself (or even just omitted the talking to herself when she's alone bits) - then i think that may have been less jarring for many players

either way - just wanted to mention - since i am having a blast with the game after some time away

so to the devs' credit, they set the bar insanely high with the first game - and so even if the second game does not meet it in various respects for many people - it is still head and shoulders above so many good games in terms of the level of fun and longevity that it provides

anyway - gonna head off and find that recyclotron so that i can carry all my stuff with me as i travel

i know as a piece of equipment it's kind of a cheat - and i can't decide if i would want it in SN - probably not - since it is something that sets both games apart - and actually is more necessary in BZ since we don't have the massive storage capacity of the Cyclops

but i sure do love it lol :-)

anyway - please do forgive the rambling essays

peace :-)

[dragonbornzyra]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย WillieSea:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย dragonbornzyra:

I'd love to read QP's thesis, link please?

Sorry, I fixed my post, it was your thesis I meant as the OP.

Oh no no, I feel goofy now, I should have picked up on the context, typo or not. I thank and appreciate you for investing your time and contributing to the discussion!

@Drizzt

Man, you really are incredible! You've stuck with this thread for so long, and contributed so much honest, sincere, and genuine feelings of yourself. You offer a more balanced and nuanced take, and you've been a part of the group of people whose helped me look at Below Zero, again, a few more times, in a gentler light. I still feel the way that I do, but what's different now is that I've also now started to have additional feelings, or at least, understandings, from others point of view. My view hasn't been made any less for it, if anything my viewpoints have gained depth and perspective!

I thank you for that so much, and I am so glad to learn that my negative feedback HAS NOT stopped you from enjoying Below Zero! What a Chadly Lad you are. I was actually concerned that I may have been ruining the game for those that would have otherwise loved it, even though I honestly to my heart of hearts didn't like it.

Your rambling essays are not only forgiven, they are applauded and welcome! I'm so happy you have a sparked and rekindled love for these games.

Cheers!

[Heckin' computer]

This is still going uh? Well color me pink. What a saga. I'm referring to the thread. Look folks, gaming is an artform. Game dev accordingly. Artistic critcism, like in-depth and thoughtful, and not prejorative and invective-filled hit-pieces isn't just right, it's demanded.

I'm not OP's biggest fan but thoughtful he is and so, more importantly are the replies much of the time. That, and this, is valuable.

I'll recap. I think they made a mistake trying to mash this up with a JRPG. It never belonged in a game of this type.

I've said before elsewhere and will say here again: Gamers must take the initiative to appreciate, not just engage with our artform. Criticize accordingly. And preserve, curate, protect and promote our best. As any community of afficiandos, artisans, engineers does their craft.

It's something the technical and scientific team in BZ lacked, as well as a functioning and legitimate feedback mechinism (sci misconduct.) It led to their their demise.

Let's do better than they did. And yes, what is contributed right here has been in that direction. I believe we need to do more.

And yes, buying the next game, if it reaches for the next, high bar on the vast spaceladder SN set before us, will be part of that.

I'd recommend BZ on sale. It's a fun standalone game. Can't consider it canon story-wise.

[dragonbornzyra]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Heckin' computer:

This is still going uh? Well color me pink. What a saga. I'm referring to the thread. Look folks, gaming is an artform. Game dev accordingly. Artistic critcism, like in-depth and thoughtful, and not prejorative and invective-filled hit-pieces isn't just right, it's demanded.

I'm not OP's biggest fan but thoughtful he is and so, more importantly are the replies much of the time. That, and this, is valuable.

I'll recap. I think they made a mistake trying to mash this up with a JRPG. It never belonged in a game of this type.

I've said before elsewhere and will say here again: Gamers must take the initiative to appreciate, not just engage with our artform. Criticize accordingly. And preserve, curate, protect and promote our best. As any community of afficiandos, artisans, engineers does their craft.

It's something the technical and scientific team in BZ lacked, as well as a functioning and legitimate feedback mechinism (sci misconduct.) It led to their their demise.

Let's do better than they did. And yes, what is contributed right here has been in that direction. I believe we need to do more.

And yes, buying the next game, if it reaches for the next, high bar on the vast spaceladder SN set before us, will be part of that.

I'd recommend BZ on sale. It's a fun standalone game. Can't consider it canon story-wise.

I haven't said anything until now, but this is about the third or fourth time you've taken a passive aggressive dig at me publicly. Look, we got frustrated with each other playing Deep Rock Galactic. I kept my cool and tried to explain to you to stay moving and not stand still and shoot the slowly moving towards you exploding one-hit-kill bug. You lost your cool, and cursed me out. Then left the match.

I removed you from my friends list because I was very upset. I didn't think it was fair I was able to manage my frustration without insulting you or cursing you out. You did not only that, but you broke a sacred DRG rule and left a fellow Dwarf on his own.

I didn't go after you or make a fuss about it. Each time you took a potshot at me I disregarded it.

But I'm kind of fed up with the fact that you're hung up over an incident in which you were in the wrong. My mother was murdered by her husband Jan 18th of this year. She was my SSI disabled benefits benefactor. I'm an adult with Asperger's Syndrome. Since her murder, a childhood friend of mine of 29 years offered to help me. My mother had been in a car wreck December of 2022, which fractured her T12 vertebrae and dislocated(?) 2 additional vertebrae in her neck. She had to have surgery through her neck to get to her spinal column, a feeding tube put in because her throat muscles were so atrophied she couldn't swallow on her own.

She won a settlement from that wreck, but before the check arrived her husband stabbed her in the back. My mother, an elderly lady in adult diapers, with a feeding tube, and a walker, killed in cold blood by her husband.

My 29 year long friend fought to become executor of my mother's estate to help handle final life expenses. He ended up embezzling over $25,000 from me. This is in the middle of me dealing with lawyers, police officers, sheriff's, investigators, prosecutors, coroner's office, funeral homes, Social Security Offices, family members, and more. I was able to get enough money to hire myself a lawyer and once my states prosecution case against her killer is finished my wrongful death lawsuit can proceed.

I'm in a situation now where I have to find a new benefactor to handle my benefits or I will lose them. Additionally, a friend of 9 years I took off the street, gave a place to stay rent free, and my friendship, had been living with me and we were helping each other. The stress of everything was too much and they've bailed on me.

I'm over whelmed, under equipped, and suffering from crippling depression. Every single day I am a super hero, because that I'm saving is my own. I'm a recovering self harmer, having since moved on and finding more healthy ways to cope with my problems. But I'm in over my head and sometimes somedays it just hurts to breathe.

I'm underweight, I've lost 20 lbs, putting food in my mouth disgusts me and I can only take a few bites before my throat closes up and my body rejects food. I'm having to ration my SSI benefits to make sure I have my bills paid (on my own, something I've never done before) buy food, and have enough money left over for gas money to pay my neighbor for rides as I don't have a truck (Friend stole that, too)

Coming onto these forums and engaging the community and my friends in discussions and Subnautica itself has been very therapeutic and helpful.

But I swear to god, Heckin' Computer, the last thing I need right now is more of your ♥♥♥♥.

I'm so over turning the other cheek.

You need to stop, and leave me alone, and get the hell off of my back.

Leave me alone

I'm going to be blocking all future communication from you, but I want to ask if you have the humanity in you to exert the will power to curb your harassment on your own and ask yourself if you really feel like continuing to berate me with your passive aggressive toxicity.

I've known you long enough and gotten to know you well enough I can decipher your (very highly creative and intelligent) syntax and speech patterns. Part of the reason we were such great friends was our ability to hold dual conversations with each other. We could hold a conversation that on the surface level to anyone else seemed to be about one thing, while me and you were holding an additional parallel conversation through subtext.

It was our inside joke.

And it's because of that, perhaps only because of that, that I can see straight through your outwardly innocuous remarks for the daggers they are.

I honestly thought if I just let you say what you wanted, to get it out of your system, that if I didn't engage with you, you'd eventually stop.

But it seems you just got a taste of digging on me and keep coming back for more.

Stop bullying me. It's weird and it's creepy and it's starting to really get to me and upset me.

I do not need crap from someone I used to call a friend, a person that cut me deep once and has since kept stabbing away at me quietly.

Stop it.

YOU do better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbs9x3f577k

[Heckin' computer]

I didn't read most of that. I think vindictiveness needs to be left out of gaming in general. I actually came in to compliment the guy (thoughtful,) endorse the fact the feedback that the community is giving based on his post was wholesome and worthwhile, but he can't get over himself enough to get past his own ego, and that thoroughly unnecessary last post is the result.

If anyone needed any basis to question what motivates OP's criticisms, he's provided enough there to do so. What a shame, many of them are merited. For my part, I think I'll bow out of this thread. One person shouldn't own art criticism, especially if they're prone to fly off the handle as some may be. And that is a good reason not to be friends with them too. Or take their opinion seriously.

[Dirak2012]

As a closing comment, BZ is a bad Subnautica sequel and it's a complete disappointment. Still, it's kind of okay if you forget that the original ever existed.

[kane]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Dirak2012:

As a closing comment, BZ is a bad Subnautica sequel and it's a complete disappointment. Still, it's kind of okay if you forget that the original ever existed.

Yeah that's how i feel about it. BZ is an okay game but most things i liked about it is from the first game and the stuff i dislike about it is the new stuff.
Not everybody is going to like the same thing which is fine but for me the next Subnautica is a wait and see what they do.
I still give the game a positive review because a lot of the game is doing what i liked in the first game but i did lay out the stuff i did not like.

On a side note.
I would have liked that the starboard Lifepods were not all destroyed and some or even one ejected out into space that way you could have a space spin off game while keeping the main Subnautica games water based.

[dragonbornzyra]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย kane:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Dirak2012:

As a closing comment, BZ is a bad Subnautica sequel and it's a complete disappointment. Still, it's kind of okay if you forget that the original ever existed.

Yeah that's how i feel about it. BZ is an okay game but most things i liked about it is from the first game and the stuff i dislike about it is the new stuff.
Not everybody is going to like the same thing which is fine but for me the next Subnautica is a wait and see what they do.
I still give the game a positive review because a lot of the game is doing what i liked in the first game but i did lay out the stuff i did not like.

On a side note.
I would have liked that the starboard Lifepods were not all destroyed and some or even one ejected out into space that way you could have a space spin off game while keeping the main Subnautica games water based.

Of all the ideas I've heard for how/why they could take the next game into space, this is the most creative and plauseable one I've heard so far. I mean that, that's smooth writing.

[Sputnik]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย kane:

On a side note.
I would have liked that the starboard Lifepods were not all destroyed and some or even one ejected out into space that way you could have a space spin off game while keeping the main Subnautica games water based.

So are we talking a Breathedge scenario here?

You know a vast debris field in orbit, where a survivor might cobble together a space station and a collection of vehicles?

https://store.steampowered.com/app/738520/Breathedge/

[Drizzt]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Sputnik:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย kane:

On a side note.
I would have liked that the starboard Lifepods were not all destroyed and some or even one ejected out into space that way you could have a space spin off game while keeping the main Subnautica games water based.

So are we talking a Breathedge scenario here?

You know a vast debris field in orbit, where a survivor might cobble together a space station and a collection of vehicles?

https://store.steampowered.com/app/738520/Breathedge/

i have that one on my wishlist - but from the reviews it seems that the humor is somewhat irritating and that there is simply too much of it

if we think about the discussions we have about the differences between SN and BZ - many of us enjoyed the limited voice work of the original (as well as the lone survivor vibe), and found at least some of the voice work of the main plot of BZ to be somewhat irritating (as well as the attempt at injecting additional unnecessary humor into the suit AI that feels out of place and rarely lands - and i believe the suit AI in Breathedge is far more frequent, and with similar problems)

so if Breathedge is as packed full of questionable comedy vocal work as the reviews suggest, then it may not be as much of a "Subnautica in Space" as people might hope

but i would be interested to hear from people who have actually played it

and of course, a game actually worthy of being described as "Subnautica in Space" would be totally awesome :-)

[Drizzt]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย dragonbornzyra:

@Drizzt
......Your rambling essays are not only forgiven, they are applauded and welcome

glad to hear - i am sure there will be more :-)