Creature Behavior

[E y e s u c k]

So I've been Steve Irwining the creatures in Subnautica recently and was looking to talk to some other Subnautica fanatics about the game's ai. So far I think the alien life forms all behave kind of like real animals of their kind should. It seems like really big creatures tend to not notice you at all unless you're flashing them with lights or piloting a shiny Seamoth. Whereas the smaller creatures immediately take notice of you and react accordingly. Y'know, Stalkers and Sandsharks see you as potential prey, small herbivores flee in terror while those damned red, bitey things attack you in groups.

Any thoughts, ideas, corrections? What are your experiences with the life forms of Subnautica? I'd love to hear from everyone and anyone. And, incidentally... is inherently it disrespectful to make a verb out of the name of a deceased person?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPSrme6KcJ8

[Lazy Fangs]

I'd like for the fish to learn - adapt to the player's presence. If he doesn't chase about the smaller prey fish, they stop running away from him and even begin grouping about him. If the player hurts predators, they would start avoiding him. That's what I'd like to see as far as AI is concerned - to feel that my presence is sinking into the environment.

[Explore]

I'm not sure if predators should be as attracted to the seamoth as they are, but it's not a big deal.

[Lazy Fangs]

Originally posted by Explore Games:

I'm not sure if predators should be as attracted to the seamoth as they are, but it's not a big deal.

Sandsharks always try and mate with my moth. It's really annoying. Whenever I turn to see what is the source of the constant banging when I'm out, I can see a Sandshark grinding against the moth's back.

[IFIYGD]

Originally posted by Wing Dancer:

I'd like for the fish to learn - adapt to the player's presence. If he doesn't chase about the smaller prey fish, they stop running away from him and even begin grouping about him. If the player hurts predators, they would start avoiding him. That's what I'd like to see as far as AI is concerned - to feel that my presence is sinking into the environment.

The Stalkers do have positive reinforcement learning abilities. They like you giving them shiny metal and will bring you more. Fror a time. But as in IRL, that can backfire if you assume that beacuse one or 2 were "freindly" for a bit, they will remain friendly.

Like feral cats or dogs IRL. You can ease their agreesiveness for a time by feeding them, but come back wthout food and they still see you as a source of food. You have none, but they will come at you expecting you to have some to give to them in response to their charge as you have in the past. You don;t have hot dogs to throw to them? You may get bit, bacuse they see you as a source of hot dogs. Stalkers are the same with shiny metal objects.

Creatures do not have human logic and emotions and morals and thought processes. We can learn that things with teeth can hurt us, so we learn to avoid them. Animal response tends to be different. One feral dog may learn to avoid you if you hit it with a big stick. While another member of it's pack may react with increased aggression after you hit it with a big stick. A "You hurt mbefore, so I am going to attack and kill you before you can hurt me again" response. Same species, 2 different responses in 2 different individulas.

So because we never truly know how many individuals there are in an area, we never truly know if we are interacting with the same ones, or if a new creature has hatched or come into the biome while we were away.We don't know enough about them to know how or even if they communicate with each other, So the Stalkers in the kelp forest to the left of your Safe Shallows spawn point may not pass the "learning" they got from you, to the Stalkers in the kelp forest to the right of your spawn point.

So, just because I raised Flufffy and Ralph, I never assume that Fluffly and Ralph remeber I was a good Mommy, who brings them shimy things to play with and fishies to eat. I assume they have gone feral every tme I leave and go back to get the teeth they drop. And go prepared with more fishies to feed them and distract them, and my holstered knife, just in case.

They are creatures, not humans. To expect them to learn and communicate and think as humans do is foolish IMO. Sometimes you can "tame" a feral dog and eventually make it a pet. Who may or may not remain friendly towards you or who may revert to a feral state if a trigger occurs. Ad nd who may never like other humans. Sometimes you can try to do that and end up with feral dog jawns clamped on your arm or worse as soon as you assume that dog "likes" you now.


IMHO, the AI works for creatures as it should. I never assume a beast I was friends with 1 game day ago will still be my friend today. Just as IRL, sometimes your best friuends can turn and end up being your worst enemies. Complete trust in a game and IRL is a foolish thing.

Just how I see it, mileage may vary.

[digitaltimetraveller]

I like the fact that AI behaviour has a random element to it.

Came across this funny looking guy

[img]http://i.imgur.com/awzeBVn.png[/img]

He attacked my Seamoth immediately. I went back, another time, to the area I found him in so that I can get a scan on him. Went prepared with a stasis rifle. I found him him. Jumped out of the Seamoth and swam out a bit. He came charging towards me, swerved round me, booted my Seamoth so hard that it hit a cliff face and started leaking .... and then just swum off!

That sort of behaviour really keeps you on your toes.

You can't assume anything.

PS: On an unrelated note. How do you post a photo in a comment? Not sure that I am doing it right.

[E y e s u c k]

Originally posted by digitaltimetraveller:

I like the fact that AI behaviour has a random element to it.

Came across this funny looking guy

[img]http://i.imgur.com/awzeBVn.png[/img]

He attacked my Seamoth immediately. I went back, another time, to the area I found him in so that I can get a scan on him. Went prepared with a stasis rifle. I found him him. Jumped out of the Seamoth and swam out a bit. He came charging towards me, swerved round me, booted my Seamoth so hard that it hit a cliff face and started leaking .... and then just swum off!

That sort of behaviour really keeps you on your toes.

You can't assume anything.

PS: On an unrelated note. How do you post a photo in a comment? Not sure that I am doing it right.

What you're looking for is called an embedded link.
Here's a link to that forum topic:
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/1/618459405727172149/

Although I think Steam discussions will automatically embed the image if it's from your screenshot library. Gonn try that now:
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/262713611398872771/2C333376BBB95A34BF82479CEFF241629364B836/

I also saw someone talking about using some code to try and force Steam to embed the image so here's that attempt:
[img] http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/262713611398872771/2C333376BBB95A34BF82479CEFF241629364B836/ [/img]

Here's another attempt with some change in format:
[img=http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/262713611398872771/2C333376BBB95A34BF82479CEFF241629364B836/] Home sweet home [/img]

[E y e s u c k]

LoL well that failed spectacularly :P

[E y e s u c k]

Originally posted by Wing Dancer:

I'd like for the fish to learn - adapt to the player's presence. If he doesn't chase about the smaller prey fish, they stop running away from him and even begin grouping about him. If the player hurts predators, they would start avoiding him. That's what I'd like to see as far as AI is concerned - to feel that my presence is sinking into the environment.

That would actually be really cool. I hope they do impliment something like that. Like maybe the fish you raise yourself remember you a little and will school around you so long as you aren't aggressive. Maybe others of the same kind will then follow them. Or if they notice you chasing away predators maybe they'll stay close. Either way it's a great idea.

Originally posted by Wing Dancer:

Originally posted by Explore Games:

I'm not sure if predators should be as attracted to the seamoth as they are, but it's not a big deal.

Sandsharks always try and mate with my moth. It's really annoying. Whenever I turn to see what is the source of the constant banging when I'm out, I can see a Sandshark grinding against the moth's back.

Yeah that's pretty obnoxious when trying to collect from that biome with the red grass. They don't even seem like they're actually trying to attack me most of the time. They're just sort of running into my Seamoth. I know that the PDA suggests they would attack prey that is several times their size but you'd think they would learn you're inedible after loosing a few teeth, y'know? I mean if they're really that stupid then you would find them just knawing on rocks and things. Because that's what you would be to them, just a shiny rock.

[digitaltimetraveller]

Originally posted by E y e s u c k:

LoL well that failed spectacularly :P

What?

My attempt to get a scan, or your tutorial on photos for comments?

LOL

[E y e s u c k]

Originally posted by digitaltimetraveller:

Originally posted by E y e s u c k:

LoL well that failed spectacularly :P

What?

My attempt to get a scan, or your tutorial on photos for comments?

LOL

LoL. My attempt at embedding screenshots. I thought at least one of those would work and none did. Seems like the only thing you can embed anymore is store pages and YouTube links. Meh.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/264710

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVDteMZpBkc&list=PL3tRBEVW0hiBkczi51cX7egr8X5qZhVqK

[IFIYGD]

Originally posted by E y e s u c k:

LoL well that failed spectacularly :P

The images.akamai links do not embed. The shared files screeshot urls are the ones that auto embed. Same screenie, different urls-

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/268342479479926586/EE16EF384A860A09CB9DFDB8D2F03F65E5326061/
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=699591926
(http :// steamcommunity. com/sharedfiles/filedetails /?id=699591926 minus the spaces I put in)

(Same goes for embedding your artwork. The akamai links lead/redirect to the image online, the sharedfiles links redriect to the actual page in the Steam client.)

[E y e s u c k]

Yeah, seems like Steam links in general work depending on what they are.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=704020404

LoL well this thread got off topic really fast :P

[Kit-san]

Originally posted by Wing Dancer:

I'd like for the fish to learn - adapt to the player's presence. If he doesn't chase about the smaller prey fish, they stop running away from him and even begin grouping about him.

Intresting idea...

Originally posted by Wing Dancer:

If the player hurts predators, they would start avoiding him. That's what I'd like to see as far as AI is concerned - to feel that my presence is sinking into the environment.

I think some predators already do that, I had a Sand Shark avoid for the past 4 hours after bashing it with my sea moth. Poor Dumb**s dug straight into a nest full of Crashers....

[Explore]

Originally posted by E y e s u c k:

Originally posted by digitaltimetraveller:

What?

My attempt to get a scan, or your tutorial on photos for comments?

LOL

LoL. My attempt at embedding screenshots. I thought at least one of those would work and none did. Seems like the only thing you can embed anymore is store pages and YouTube links. Meh.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/264710

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVDteMZpBkc&list=PL3tRBEVW0hiBkczi51cX7egr8X5qZhVqK

Damn, look at those views... From now on, the first word of the title for every one of my videos will be F*CK.

BTW to get your screenshots in a thread, you need to take a screenshot (F12 I think; I just press them until it works ;) ), then when looking in your tab screen click on the one you want, press "share to steam", then open steam, go to "View" then "Screenshots", select the one you want, press "View online", then when it loads click "Share", select the link by dragging, press ctrl+c, then go to back to the forums, and wherever you want it in your message press ctrl+v. Really, you couldn't work that out yourself? ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

[sugao.kc]

One thing I'd like to see is a "dolphin-brained" creature: intelligent, social, and curious. Notice I said dolphin-brained; it could look like a squid or a shrimp for all I care. It's just that all the creatures either seem like they're scared of me, looking to eat me, or haven't noticed that I even exist yet. While those may be the most common responses to novel stimuli, curiousity is also a valid response. Even if it's just a short-lived curiosity, such as if the player remains relatively still, fish will swim up to them and circle around them a few times before deciding they're boring and swimming away. Rabbit rays are inedible, so making something like them curious wouldn't be giving the player free food or anything. Or a big critter like the jelly ray; nothing seems to eat them, so it'd make sense if their flight-or-fight instincts weren't as strong and they'd feel safe enough investigating the relatively small (to them) "new fish" that's swimming around. If you pull out your knife and stab them, of course they should flee or turn to attack, but I'd like to see a creature that's interested in the player out of sheer curiosity.

Originally posted by E y e s u c k:

And, incidentally... is inherently it disrespectful to make a verb out of the name of a deceased person?

I don't think so. After all, I'm pretty sure if Steve Irwin were dropped on an alien world, he would be studying all the cool new life forms. Probably from the back of a Reaper, no less; he always seemed to have a thing for the ones that tried to eat him.