Subnautica

Subnautica

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Frostiken Aug 8, 2021 @ 10:46pm
The utterly unsophisticated creature AI is really the weakest part of this game.
Outside of the Cyclops noise feature, it's really disappointing how rudimentary the creature AI is in this game. As you descend deeper and encounter bigger beasts, it becomes even more obvious how - well, I'd call it 'primitive', but that's an insult to primates - the AI is.

The Cyclops and its 'noise' feature is about the best you can get, and even that is pretty basic. What is lacking is everything BESIDES the Cyclops.

1) There is no stealth. In reality, what do fish do to avoid predators? They hide. They hide in grasses, in reefs, in crevices and caves. In this game, the AI essentially seems to just operate on a 360 degree bubble of threat, and if you are anywhere in that bubble, they immediately hone in on you, swim directly at you (regardless of obstacles), just to attack you.

2) Continuing #1, there's a lack of sophistication for the Seamoth and Prawn when it comes to 'stealth'. Ideally, you should have the same features you have on the Cyclops. Turning off the lights (or maybe having different configurations of light colors and ranges that attract/are ignored by certain animals), turning off the reactor, going to slow/lower power states, etc. All of these should be options for exploring while avoiding beasties in the deep. Nah, instead you'll just have Ampeels constantly jamming their way up your ass while you're just trying to drill some ore. The Eels clearly aren't even interested in eating you, they're just zapping you for fun.

3) FUTHER continuing #1, there's the issue of wrecks and caves. Because the AI is so rudimentary, and just attack you, you end up with enemies constantly clipping through structures and terrain, because they're desperately trying to attack you with zero regard for the feasability of it. You should be able to swim inside of small caves that larger creatures can't fit inside of, and they retreat to a distance to either wait you out, or get bored and leave. Not in Subnautica - they will literally try to smash their stupid way into any tiny crack, resulting in awful clipping issues and utterly silly behavior. I had one situation where I was in the Bulb Zone, and went into the deep caves. I turned around and THREE Bonesharks were all wedged in the entrance behind me, eventually they got in, and tore my Seamoth to pieces because I couldn't move. You see the same issue with wrecks - Sandsharks are especially bad, they'll just thrash and chomp at the exterior trying to get to you.

4) There is no real simulation of 'life'. For example, why is it that every Boneshark is a crazed, starving bloodthirsty monster? In reality, a predator that isn't hungry isn't going to go looking for a fight. Sharks don't just psychotically thrash and try to kill EVERYTHING THEY SEE. If they just ate a meal, then they're not going to go picking fights with everything in the area. In-game? Bonesharks and the like go out of their way to attack you all the time. Even though there's giant schools of fish everywhere (honestly these should frankly be removed at lower depths, they look ridiculous) they decide to go... eat the giant robot suit stomping around on the sea floor? Yeah I don't think so. There is no creature 'learning' or reactivity. I would imagine punching any creature in the face with a giant robot fist is going to teach it really quick to piss off. Instead they'll just swim around and keep thrashing you. Most sea life spends most of its time NOT MOVING. Moving wastes energy and attracts attention. Sand Sharks are supposed to be lying on the sea floor waiting to ambush you... but every time you're in Sand Shark territory, what are they doing? They're doing their silly thrashing animation at every single one of the hundreds of fish swimming around. It's just STUPID.

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The Cyclops 'stealth modes' are fun. The rest of it? Is really, really dumb. Nothing feels like it's behaving like actual sea life does. It feels like the FPS version of programming an AI that just runs directly at the player, firing their guns. They don't take cover, or navigate around terrain, or act with any semblance of self-preservation. They just identify the player, hold W and Mouse1, and that's their attack.

It really is the weakest, silliest-feeling part of the game.
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ElDiabolo Aug 8, 2021 @ 11:53pm 
I honestly just ignore the AI.
In the Beginning i got freaked when a reaper attacked my cyclops. Then I realised it doesn’t matter.
You. An just drive / swim away.

A warpet takes you out of your Shrimp? Just get back in…

The sea dragon didn’t attack me even once and I was just driving around however I wanted (parking right next to it in lava lakes)
Mentos Aug 9, 2021 @ 2:28am 
There would also be people complaining that the AI isn't aggressive enough if it behaved realistically. But keep in mind this IS an alien planet and the behavioral patterns don't have to match those of Earth.
dragonbornzyra Aug 9, 2021 @ 4:33am 
Pull out a flare if Bonesharks are griefing you to that extent. Metal salvage for Stalkers. Crabsquids are less aggressive if you have lights off. Crabsnakes are territorial. Warpers only hunt down the infected. Gaspods are defensive and only care about their personal space. Mesmers are fast talkers.

Not as primitive as you make it out to be.
KippenKaasBaas Aug 9, 2021 @ 5:03am 
Alright, let's get a few things straight.

1 - This game is 7 years old, it was made by a small studio and I think you might be expecting a bit too much. It would be a complete waste of time and resources to make a really advanced, learning, realistic AI for this game.

2 - Like Sir_Keksalot pointed out, having a ''realistic AI'' like you describe would make the game way too easy. Imagine if creatures only attacked you if they were ''hungry'' and imagine if creatures would back off once they had been attacked by you.
The game would be a walk in the park. Boring is what I would call it.

Also:
Originally posted by Frostiken:
the AI essentially seems to just operate on a 360 degree bubble of threat, and if you are anywhere in that bubble, they immediately hone in on you, swim directly at you (regardless of obstacles), just to attack you.

Originally posted by Frostiken:
Nah, instead you'll just have Ampeels constantly jamming their way up your ass while you're just trying to drill some ore. The Eels clearly aren't even interested in eating you, they're just zapping you for fun.

Originally posted by Frostiken:
I turned around and THREE Bonesharks were all wedged in the entrance behind me, eventually they got in, and tore my Seamoth to pieces because I couldn't move.

It sound to me like you're just a bit salty because you got killed a few times.
This game is not hard. And all your suggestions would make it even easier.

Is the AI realistic or smart? Definitely not.
Would it be better if it was? Definitely not.
dragonbornzyra Aug 9, 2021 @ 5:47am 
Maybe the creatures are all starving and so desperate, since their ecosystem is on the brink of extinction. You know, like how deep sea marine life behaves, the scarcity of food is so incredible they can't afford to waste an opportunity to feed.

The male angler fish attaches itself to the female and lives with her the rest of its life, feeding off her bloodstream, since it's so unlikely to find another mate, they adapted a symbiotic life style to ensure when the female is ready to be fertilized, the male is right there.

Just consider.
admiral1018 Aug 9, 2021 @ 6:22am 
I think the AI of this game is an area that can be improved, but I don't quite think you're giving it enough credit or being fair in some of your criticism. A few points:

1. Stealth - You mention the lack of stealth and how other aquatic life has all sorts of mechanisms for hiding from predators. Well, that aquatic life evolved those features over millions of years. Humans are not aquatic and have no stealth options in our real-world marine environments now. If we go into aggressive areas, our options are some type of protection (suit, shark cage, enclosed vehicle) or simply keeping far enough away. The game is realistic in keeping with how humans interact with aquatic life in the open.

2. Vehicle stealth - In-game, the Seamoth is a short-distance exploration vehicle that is designed for space. The Prawn is a mining and industrial vehicle. Neither would have any reason to have stealth mechanisms. The Seamoth's sonar module does serve as an advance warning system for detecting far off leviathans and does allow some level of stealth. The Prawn is simply too clunky to ever be able to be used stealthily. But it's also so resilient that it doesn't exactly need it.

3. General behavior - The creature AI is a bit more varied and nuanced than you described. Some creatures are territorial and will ignore you completely unless you get too close. Others respond to a specific stimulus (the Crabsquid is drawn to light sources, for example). Some are more aggressive and will pursue you (mostly leviathans), but almost all mid-sized fauna will flee and de-aggro if you strike them with a knife once. An actual "monster" would come at you relentlessly with no regard for its life, but creatures in this game do have a survival instinct.

4. Tools - This game gives you a number of tools for pacifying hostile fauna and expects you to use them. The propulsion/repulsion cannons can send away hostile foes. Stasis cannons can freeze creatures and allow you to escape. Vortex torpedoes do the same. Gas torpedoes will give enough of a kick to strongly deter if not outright kill many creatures. Creature decoys can be deployed (either by hand or from the Cyclops) to distract creatures and let you escape. In other words, you have plenty of ways within the game as designed to avoid hostile situations with fauna.

5. Bonesharks - I agree with you on them being annoying, and a lot of people have brought this up. They are easily deterred with a knife strike, as mentioned above, and they can killed without much effort if they become a major nuisance. Their AI could have definitely been tweaked.

6. Clipping - Yeah, the clipping through surfaces is inexcusable and is definitely an area to be fixed. It won't happen in this game, but I really hope it's addressed if UWE makes future Subnautica titles. Nothing ruins immersion more than watching a Sea Dragon swimming through cave walls all day.
Last edited by admiral1018; Aug 9, 2021 @ 6:33am
KippenKaasBaas Aug 9, 2021 @ 6:28am 
Originally posted by admiral1018:
if UWE makes future Subnautica titles.

I certainly hope not...
dragonbornzyra Aug 9, 2021 @ 7:02am 
Originally posted by admiral1018:

6. Clipping - Yeah, the clipping through surfaces is inexcusable and is definitely an area to be fixed. It won't happen in this game, but I really hope it's addressed if UWE makes future Subnautica titles. Nothing ruins immersion more than watching a Sea Dragon swimming through cave walls all day.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2105292615
Lystent Aug 11, 2021 @ 1:33am 
I'd personally put subnautica's AI somewhere in the low middle. It has an extent of pathfinding, but also has quite a bit of variety of actions throughout the various creatures. More importantly (IMO) the present deaggroed state (something I learned to appreciate from Space Engineers, because Space Engineers doesn't even have that). What I believe it often lacks are tactics/strategy (TBH, I am not sure how that would be suited for a fish), better pathfinding (generally more difficult in games where you can not predefine the paths), and learning (which is something I've mostly seen in a PS2 game).

Edit: Albeit, I still adore it when I see a pack of stalkers chasing the one who stole my drone.
Last edited by Lystent; Aug 11, 2021 @ 1:36am
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Date Posted: Aug 8, 2021 @ 10:46pm
Posts: 9