安装 Steam
登录
|
语言
繁體中文（繁体中文）
日本語（日语）
한국어（韩语）
ไทย（泰语）
български（保加利亚语）
Čeština（捷克语）
Dansk（丹麦语）
Deutsch（德语）
English（英语）
Español-España（西班牙语 - 西班牙）
Español - Latinoamérica（西班牙语 - 拉丁美洲）
Ελληνικά（希腊语）
Français（法语）
Italiano（意大利语）
Bahasa Indonesia（印度尼西亚语）
Magyar（匈牙利语）
Nederlands（荷兰语）
Norsk（挪威语）
Polski（波兰语）
Português（葡萄牙语 - 葡萄牙）
Português-Brasil（葡萄牙语 - 巴西）
Română（罗马尼亚语）
Русский（俄语）
Suomi（芬兰语）
Svenska（瑞典语）
Türkçe（土耳其语）
Tiếng Việt（越南语）
Українська（乌克兰语）
报告翻译问题
此主题已被锁定 
讨论规则及指引
举报此帖
Not really, the main issue I've seen is that people were complaining about the imbalance between QOL mods and mission critical mods. By making QOL mods permantly buildable you allow for more focus on mission critical mods so now your Cyclops mod build is taylored for what you need to do. Instead of worring about if you should sacrifice fire suppression for a sonar attachment you now focus on what armor or shield you need.
Let's look at the upgrade list
Hull
Effeciency
Shield
Sonar
Docking Bay repair
Fire suppression
Decoy
Thermal Reactor
---
So if we remove the QOL mods and make them buildable you have
Hull
Effeciency
Shield
Decoy
---
You can run a basic Cyc with no issue and now you can focus on new mods what missions you need to go on or where you are going.
Add an armor mod with two upgrades one for piercing damage from reapers and sea emperors and one upgrade for the energy attacks from crab squid, shockers, and larva
Add sonar modification mods, one for creatures, one for wrecks, and one for resources
Add a few defensive upgrades, stasis rifle turrets, or a gas cloud
The devs could also add other buildable QOL upgrades, they could bring back Boneshark aggro until you found and installed a Cavitation Shroud over the Propeller. A cooling system that would reduce or eleminate the chance of your engine catching on fire.
So now, with suggested addons (S) you have
QOL buildable upgrades
Sonar
Fire Suppression
Power generator
Docking bay repair
(S) Cooling system
(S) Cavitation Shroud
Module upgrades
Hull
Efficiency
Sheild
Decoy
(S) General armor
(S) Physical attack armor
(S) Energy attack armor
(S) Sonar creature upgrade
(S) Sonar wreck upgrade
(S) Sonar resource upgrade
(S) Defensive turrets
(S) Gas cloud
That's a lot of mods there but all can be grouped for specific missions, you can't do everything at once but if you plan with this you can do everything in time. As it stands now there is too much trade off between modswith little gain over the pro/cons of each variation.
My basic take on all this is that annoyances and inconveniences should be either be mostly or permentally overcome while the threats in the game should be adapted to. The question before you leave base should be "what am I doing, where am I going, and what mods do I need to go there" instead of "do I want to see where I'm going or do I want to make sure I don't burn to death"
Pretty much, yes. Not exactly a satisfying kind of airquotes "choice".
True, that said, I still want that when you first get the Cyclops that it should be a half blind, fragile, fiery death trap of an aggro magnet that can't fight and can barely out run anything. It makes finding those upgrades all the more imperative to remove all the issues an unupgraded Cyclops has.
I still see a lot of potential issues with not having enough slots for all or most of the upgrades.
I also see a move toward more omnipotence and less balancing with the Cyclops.
Sufficed to say I think we are running into the old Destructible vs. Indestructible argument again, though this time we would be finding ways to make the Cyclops less destructible by adding more rather than taking more away. I don't mind having new features but I do care about balance and about moving away from increasing omnipotence to the point where there is no need to do anything ourselves anymore as much as possible. I want to see more involvement from the player with the gameworld rather than having the Cyclops do all or most of the work.
So, yeah, awesome idea, but for gameplay purposes I personally would not like to see that much more added to what we already have.
EDIT 1: Shortened response and sparated paragraph.
EDIT 2: Re-formed paragraph and added last sentence.
I agree for the most part, but by breaking apart the quality of life upgrades from the mission critical upgrades you can focus more on the game then running back and forth switching out mods.
As for not having a player involved in the game world, how is adding more things that you have to consider and balance the pros and cons of each module for a specific mission not involving them with the game world?
I think we can all agree that the Cyclops is unbalanced right now, it was OP, and now it's super nerfed, this way adds more incentive to explore, makes the mid game dangerous while making the late game more strategic.
How would you suggest to balance it?
The current set up isn't working. If you go with the idea to up the mod slots to 6 with the mods we have now it isn't that strategic, there's 8 mods, use all but the repair and the thermal plant for nearly everything unless you're parked and you're good to go for much of the game, not much thought there.
Edit Addon
So wait, at first you wanted more thought and stratagy being put into the game, now you want less? Which is it?
Switching upgrade modules is part of the game. You aren't supposed have everything so you need to decide what you want and when. Too many QoF upgrades takes that away. The game is properly balanced when there will always be something more you want to do with the Cyclops that you can't do unless you swap it with something else.
Adding more abilities to the Cyclops decreases the amount of things you have to do in the game yourself. Adding sonar upgrades that only detect certain resources takes away the player's job of finding out just what it is or would be that the scanner is detecting. Besides, the Cyclops was never supposed to be able to detect resources. The sonar is only meant for finding your way around closed-in areas.
And adding more shields decreases the Cyclops' ability to get damaged. The developers want the Cyclops to get damaged or be at risk of getting damaged at some point. Likewise, Subnautica is not about eliminating threats or disabling them. It is about finding ways to avoid them, even if some players find that tedious.
I don't agree with that at all. I think the Cyclops is just fine the way it is. The only reason why I would ever agree to ways to decrease the amount of risk and danger in this game is that too many other people seem to want that for my vision for Subnautica to ever happen. I am doing what too many inexperienced EA buyers don't seem to have the capability or tolerance to do - I am reconciling.
I've already suggested that. Add an enhancement and take another enhancement out. Take one area of difficulty or tedium out and add another somewhere else. For the most part I don't care how this is done in specific but in general there has to be an equal amount of ease and hardship in everything you do. I would like to see two more slots added to the Cyclops module console, I would like a way to get rid of Lava Larvae with the shield without necessarily preventing others from attaching themselves to it, and I would like to see the creature decoys cost less. I would like to keep engine overheating for Ahead Flank but decrease cavitation for Ahead Slow. And I would like to see reduced aggro range for bonesharks but not outright elimination for it. Aside from that, everything is fine as it is.
That's a matter of opinion only.
You are supposed to have to choose between mods you want both of. That's what makes it strategic; you have to loe something you ideally wouldn't want to lose so it makes you think more carefully about which of the modules you will use. If you were able to use all of the modules you would ever really need to go somewhere with the Cyclops then you would be using those most if not all of the time. There is no strategy in that. There is only over-reliance on it, to the extent that some modules may no longer even be used anymore.
Everyone always wants to be able to do more and more. It's called Opportunism and we as humans think that way by nature. Strategy involves thinking "Wait, I'd better not do that" no matter how much you might want to, and most of the time that involves either taking something away or turning what you are used to thinking of as a good idea into a bad idea. Direct assaults, for instance, are not always a good idea because your enemy could have some advantages you don't have so you need to find other ways that do not have that direct upfront element, and if you like doing that sort of thing then it is considered a loss.
Namely, I want the kind of strategy that forces us to evaluate and choose between multiple equally appealing options by making us unable to have both at the same time, and the only way you can have that is by having less to do at any one given time, although at the same time having more options to have to choose from. So in a way, that makes your prior suggestion a good one as long as most of that can't be added to the Cyclops itself and then used at the same time. That was why I raised the issue of compounding the not-enough-slots dilemma.
EDIT: Fixed a typo somewhere, changed word repetition and replaced two words in third response.
They are ramping up levithan aggro and made promises of the ghost levithan ****ing us up once they implement it though, with such a large creature chasing such a large vehichle in such a small area it's questionable how well even stuff like spamming decoys will work (See; repulsion gun being useless in tunnels and caves because predators just U turn right back at you)
I've been trying to force experimental to work right to reach the lava land to give the changes a proper peek myself rather than pure common sense, but it's been rocky. But no bonesharks a gogo should make it more easy to tell the difference in levithan changes if i make it.
Fluffy nicely sums up what swapping Cyclops modules on-the-fly would be like, when he describes carrying 11 cakes into the kitchen after a show: https://youtu.be/j-ruZ7zad8g?t=14s
Sounds convenient as hell to me.
That's why you don't try to use as many upgrade modules as you possibly can within a certain amount of time. You pick the set of upgrade modules you want per situation. Trying to use as many of the modules as possible at the same time is a cheap attempt to return to the idea of using all of them and is more trouble than it is worth. Choose which modules you want to user for each situation and stick with them for that situation, then switch for a different situation.
What I am trying to suggest is that the function upgrades, with the exception of the shield and decoys, are perment, buildable structures on the Cyclops, while the modules are for altering stats of the Cyclops.
I get that you think that if these are added that it takes away from the game, but by that same token you would also be against the grav sphere, the desalinator, the vending machine, the first aid fabricator, the battery/power cell charger because all of those base upgrades do something for you that you would normally have to do yourself, i.e. find/make food/water, make first aid kits, make new batteries/powercells.
Not to mention removing of pipes, the scanner room and the moon pool since now you don't need go to the surface any more, to explore, or manually replace power cells or repair in safety.
That's where I'm coming from, the Cyclops is billed as a mobile base, as such I think it makes sense that a lot of the functional, quality of life upgrades are things you build like in a regular base but the mods are things that change the stats of those functions
By just adding an additional two slots you don't get any of that stratagy you are looking for. What you get is using all of the mods but repair and thermal. Those you only rearrange in specific situations. "Am I over a lava vent? ok, swap out sonar for thermal generator." There's less thought going into that.
But let's take my armor mod suggestion, you would have a base armor module that reduces damage by 25%, something the seamoth and PRAWN already have, then you could upgrade that module to two varients a physical and energy based attack armors. The physical would reduce physical damage from Reapers and Leviatans by 75% but increase damage from energy attacks from Crab squid, Shockers, and Larve. The reverse is true for the Energy version, a reduction of 75% for energy and an increase of 50% to physical. If you use both at the same time you are back at a general 25% reduction of a basic armor mod.
That's the type of mod stratagy I'd like to see, one where the mods are chosen around what I need the Cyclops to do, to explore a specific biome, to gather resources, to explore in general, or to deal with a specific threat. As it is right now the Cyclops feels purposefully hobbled where it doesn't need to be. In that it feels out of place compaired to the rest of the game that allows you to get around, reduce, or remove a lot of your initial problems.
P.s. Are any devs considering what I'm talking about for the mod? Good idea/Bad idea? Is it feasable or should I just give it a rest because you can't/won't use it?
There are times when you should have to risk the possibility of not being able to suppress an engine fire if you want to use the depth module, the power efficiency module and the shield module if instead you are in favour of using the sonar, or whatnot. We should be finding ways to allow for more sacrifices like this for the sake of strategizing.
None of those are modules. The lifepod can't use modules because - as a lifepod - there is no point if you need it and everything on it in the occasion that you cannot get the modules that would give you these things. And since they are already on the lifepod, why not make them buildable? Shields and sonar will always be features that you can restrict to modules that you need to find blueprints for and build because they aren't necessary in basic survival instances. They would help, but are too expensive when all you are looking for in a default survival setup are the bare necessities of survival.
Gravspheres are tools. Power cell chargers are (or were) the only way you can recharge power cells. And even with the implementation of the thermal reactor I still think they will become useful. They are not an add-on to an existing feature or control venue to make it do something new. They are a feature all their own that can be used across [venues]. There is no need for sonar or fire suppression systems or depth modules in our bases - we can already make up for the latter with reinforcements.
We still need scanner rooms and moonpools for our bases and pipes are there for instances when we don't have a submersible available. Pipes even become useful alongside a submersible so that you don't need to keep going back and forth while visiting a wreck or an abandoned base.
Additional modules for sonar and shields do not enhance the Cyclops' use as a base. They don't even enhance the Cyclops' use as a submersible. They turn the Cyclops into an omnipotent tool that removes effort and obstacles that the player should be facing themselves. You can always make it do more and more things but that isn't the aim of the game. All the Cyclops was ever supposed to be was a vehicle used to let the player experience the game world. Enhancing it to the point where you no longer have to do this would take away the point of taking the Cyclops out to explore the game world in the first place. The game world becomes the Cyclops itself and nothing more, and that isn't fun.
As opposed to putting every single module into a slot and doing nothing? That makes no sense at all. Making decisions and trade-offs is what strategy is all about.
All you are doing is combining two modules to create a more powerful shield. It is no different from making a single module since you already have the extra slot for it and hence would be a stupid reason to create an extra module slot for. It just makes the whole thing more elaborate than it needs to be for the sake of having to collect more modules, which in itself would mean more menial effort. And enough players take issue with that sort of thing as it is. You would only be adding one more thing for them to groan about.
Not to mention I think a more powerful shield would be unnecessary and make the Cyclops too OP. Where in that suggestion has game balance ever come in?
Making the Cyclops do too much can be almost as bad as making it indestructible again, which is something you seem to be going for, anyway. Omnipotence takes away involvement with a game ant makes it less stimulating. I realize there are lots of things some players just don't like doing such as finding fragments and dealing with threats but they should realize that those who decided to back it in its earlier days have their own interests and it was this playerbase that allowed Subnautica to be what it is today. It started out being very heavy on gathering and crafting because that was what a lot of its players wanted at the time. Through the months it has built on this premise that actually going out and doing things and interacting with the game world is fun. If the Cyclops takes any of this away then I personally think it would be a bad move away from its original gameplay premise.
I'd said this before but I do believe that success or failure in a (good) game should depend on the player rather than the game itself.
EDIT: Fixed a typo.
You totally missed the point I was making. But since you'll argue you didn't anyway, just forget it.