Cyclops Decoy Torpedoes

[Kaiserbow]

Saw a thread below about putting torpedoes on the Cyclops. Most everyone disagreed, I personally thinking that the Seamoth already uses torpedoes quite well

What if you could upgrade the Creature Decoy system with torpedo launched decoys? Maybe to prevent wasting an upgrade slot, it could be a horizontal tech upgrade to the regular decoy upgrade system (either go for multiple decoys loaded or the single one to be on a torpedo system).

This could be used to clear a path, with the torpedo luring predators in the path towards the decoy.

[Delta 1038]

One of the issues with torpedoes on the Cyclops is how would you aim? The Cyclops is more or less 'flat' and unless I'm mistaken, the thing can't pivot like the Seamoth.

[Kaiserbow]

Originally posted by Delta 1038:

One of the issues with torpedoes on the Cyclops is how would you aim? The Cyclops is more or less 'flat' and unless I'm mistaken, the thing can't pivot like the Seamoth.

I'm thinking they could be turreted with the external cameras. Top launchers for rising to the surface through predators, bottom forward launchers for clearing a path, and rear mounted launchers for diverting a chasing predator.

[ImHelping]

Main reason for decoys to be projectile based is because of how most of the time I'm attacked by sea dragons, it someplace I don't want a decoy anywhere near.

"Gee, do I dump a decoy directly in front of the entrance to the lava castle I want to walk my prawn through-wait, no, that would be incredibly counterproductive. Guess I built those decoys for nothing."

Though the far bigger (hah) problem is how decoys are a 3x3 object. Lockers and your personal inventory are physically incapable of holding 5 decoys for a full reload of theupgraded decoy tube.

Even then, decoys involve multiple round trips from the fabricator and lockers/decoy tube, after emptying your pockets so you have room to even pick up the decoys.

All it adds is pointless time wasting awkard UI busywork. It doesn't even add any "risk" or "challenge" like some would like to claim, because you would be crafting or reloading decoys with your engines turned off in complete safety anyways.

Decoys at minimum need to either be reduced to a 2x2 object, or just install a "fabricate decoy" button directly onto the decoy tube.

Making the tube able to fabricate them is hardly "too EZ' when I'm building four lockers right next to it anyways. Three lockers to hold 12 spare decoys. One empty locker reserved to empty out my pockets into so I'm even allowed to pick up the decoys in the first place.

[Kaiserbow]

Originally posted by ImHelping:

Main reason for decoys to be projectile based is because of how most of the time I'm attacked by sea dragons, it someplace I don't want a decoy anywhere near.

"Gee, do I dump a decoy directly in front of the entrance to the lava castle I want to walk my prawn through-wait, no, that would be incredibly counterproductive"

Though the far bigger (hah) problem is how decoys are a 3x3 object. Lockers and your personal inventory are physically incapable of holding 5 decoys for a full reload of theupgraded decoy tube.

Even then, decoys involve multiple round trips from the fabricator and lockers/decoy tube, after emptying your pockets so you have room to even pick up the decoys.

All it adds is pointless time wasting awkard UI busywork. It doesn't even add any "risk" or "challenge" like some would like to claim, because you would be crafting or reloading decoys with your engines turned off in complete safety anyways.

Decoys at minimum need to either be reduced to a 2x2 object, or just install a "fabricate decoy" button directly onto the decoy tube.

Making the tube able to fabricate them is hardly "too EZ' when I'm building four lockers right next to it anyways. Three lockers to hold 12 spare decoys. One empty locker reserved to empty out my pockets into so I'm even allowed to pick up the decoys in the first place.

I'm fine with decoys being 3x3, seeing as how they're about the same size, if not bigger, than the Seaglide which is also 3x3. But I do agree with you that they should be projectile capable.

Perhaps a decoy station in the loading bay that builds the decoys and immediately loads them into the launcher, but to prevent 2EZ mode, make a higher materials need or make them a slow fabrication time, with the premise that the low-grade fabricator on the Cyclops takes longer than the regular versions.

[ImHelping]

Originally posted by Kaiserbow:

Originally posted by ImHelping:

Main reason for decoys to be projectile based is because of how most of the time I'm attacked by sea dragons, it someplace I don't want a decoy anywhere near.

"Gee, do I dump a decoy directly in front of the entrance to the lava castle I want to walk my prawn through-wait, no, that would be incredibly counterproductive"

Though the far bigger (hah) problem is how decoys are a 3x3 object. Lockers and your personal inventory are physically incapable of holding 5 decoys for a full reload of theupgraded decoy tube.

Even then, decoys involve multiple round trips from the fabricator and lockers/decoy tube, after emptying your pockets so you have room to even pick up the decoys.

All it adds is pointless time wasting awkard UI busywork. It doesn't even add any "risk" or "challenge" like some would like to claim, because you would be crafting or reloading decoys with your engines turned off in complete safety anyways.

Decoys at minimum need to either be reduced to a 2x2 object, or just install a "fabricate decoy" button directly onto the decoy tube.

Making the tube able to fabricate them is hardly "too EZ' when I'm building four lockers right next to it anyways. Three lockers to hold 12 spare decoys. One empty locker reserved to empty out my pockets into so I'm even allowed to pick up the decoys in the first place.

I'm fine with decoys being 3x3, seeing as how they're about the same size, if not bigger, than the Seaglide which is also 3x3. But I do agree with you that they should be projectile capable.

Perhaps a decoy station in the loading bay that builds the decoys and immediately loads them into the launcher, but to prevent 2EZ mode, make a higher materials need or make them a slow fabrication time, with the premise that the low-grade fabricator on the Cyclops takes longer than the regular versions.

Did you... did you miss the whole "Lockers full of replacements and materials two feet from the decoy tube. While in complete saftey because your engines are turned off" ???

Why the **** would you ever need to make it big sarcastic airquotes "Harder", when the issues is they are already woefully inneficient?

You don't cut a fix off at the knees ahead of time, by adding extra penalties out of no possible reason, except perhaps spite.

"Oh no. They nerfed the decoys to need TEN BATTERIES!, AND added a 60 second crafting time!..." *watches youtube videos between grabbing fabrication parts from a locker so close to the decoy tube they don't have to walk* "White knuckled excitement. Sure am glad they nerfed this to keep it from being 'too EZ'"

[Kaiserbow]

Originally posted by ImHelping:

Originally posted by Kaiserbow:

I'm fine with decoys being 3x3, seeing as how they're about the same size, if not bigger, than the Seaglide which is also 3x3. But I do agree with you that they should be projectile capable.

Perhaps a decoy station in the loading bay that builds the decoys and immediately loads them into the launcher, but to prevent 2EZ mode, make a higher materials need or make them a slow fabrication time, with the premise that the low-grade fabricator on the Cyclops takes longer than the regular versions.

Did you... did you miss the whole "Lockers full of replacements and materials two feet from the decoy tube. While in complete saftey because your engines are turned off" ???

Why the **** would you ever need to make it big sarcastic airquotes "Harder", when the issues is they are already woefully inneficient?

You don't cut a fix off at the knees ahead of time, by adding extra penalties out of no possible reason, except perhaps spite.

Settle down, mate. I read what you said. All I suggested was an idea. You're contradicting your own name by being unhelpfully nasty.

Rethinking the inefficiency, they're already quite expensive in early game, as copper is now needed by heap of things and especially in the Copper Wire form. Increasing the material need seems silly, having read it again, seeing as decoys are one-time use.

Your locker idea is genius, so perhaps the Cyclops needs to be redesigned to include something like that as a standard. Decoy Storage on the walls next to the tube?

EDIT: Do decoys have a chance of not working every time? I don't use them enough to test, but that would add to the inefficiency if be.

[ImHelping]

Originally posted by Kaiserbow:

Originally posted by ImHelping:

Did you... did you miss the whole "Lockers full of replacements and materials two feet from the decoy tube. While in complete saftey because your engines are turned off" ???

Why the **** would you ever need to make it big sarcastic airquotes "Harder", when the issues is they are already woefully inneficient?

You don't cut a fix off at the knees ahead of time, by adding extra penalties out of no possible reason, except perhaps spite.

Settle down, mate. I read what you said. All I suggested was an idea. You're contradicting your own name by being unhelpfully nasty.

Rethinking the inefficiency, they're already quite expensive in early game, as copper is now needed by heap of things and especially in the Copper Wire form. Increasing the material need seems silly, having read it again, seeing as decoys are one-time use.

Your locker idea is genius, so perhaps the Cyclops needs to be redesigned to include something like that as a standard. Decoy Storage on the walls next to the tube?

See, that's the twist of the knife for most of my "unhelpful" comments.

The worst I get is still far more benevolent than "You know what would be helpful? Making it cost MORE copper!"

Which you still suggested in the first place, if thankfully are self aware enough to realize how terrible it is... Okay, probably would have without me bringing it up first, ill try to be that oprimistic.

As for their usage effectiness, they SEEM to work okay. They have kept dragons off my back the occasions I get to use them when it would not be plopping a decoy right on top of a precursor base, or the entrway to one like the lava castle, etc. Such as when one was essentially spawncamping the containment facility, so I popped one out and drove over while it swam for the decoy.

Which makes it a real shame how much of the time (in my experience and luck), using a Decoy would be counterproductive. Made all the more frustrating when that's also when your silent running and super shield are still on cooldown. (or you simply cant afford to use the super shield without killing your vanilla power cells at the moment).

Often too many tunnels, cramped areas, or "why would I drop a decoy here, it's where I want to stay" though. But the times they apply (and will be left far enough away they won't just U turn and come after you when it wears out), they seem to the job done.

It seems to be a device that suffers a lot of "On paper in lab conditions, it's great and just fine the way it is". like if you're doing devbuild concept testing where inventory space is of no concern because why would you have a backpack full of a seaglide, food, purple precursor keys in those conditions?

[Kaiserbow]

Originally posted by ImHelping:

Originally posted by Kaiserbow:

Settle down, mate. I read what you said. All I suggested was an idea. You're contradicting your own name by being unhelpfully nasty.

Rethinking the inefficiency, they're already quite expensive in early game, as copper is now needed by heap of things and especially in the Copper Wire form. Increasing the material need seems silly, having read it again, seeing as decoys are one-time use.

Your locker idea is genius, so perhaps the Cyclops needs to be redesigned to include something like that as a standard. Decoy Storage on the walls next to the tube?

See, that's the twist of the knife for most of my "unhelpful" comments.

The worst I get is still far more benevolent than "You know what would be helpful? Making it cost MORE copper!"

Which you still suggested in the first place, if thankfully are self aware enough to realize how terrible it is... Okay, probably would have without me bringing it up first, ill try to be that oprimistic.

As for their usage effectiness, they SEEM to work okay. They have kept dragons off my back the occasions I get to use them when it would not be plopping a decoy right on top of a precursor base, or the entrway to one like the lava castle, etc.

Which makes it a real shame how much of the time (in my experience and luck), using a Decoy would be counterproductive. Made all the more frustrating when that's also when your silent running and super shield are still on cooldown. (or you simply cant afford to use the super shield without killing your vanilla power cells at the moment)

I think it's institutionalised bandaid fixing I'm used to from most other games, where 'more tedious=more gametime' is the recognised norm.

Projectile capabilities sound like it'll fix both of our issues, but I've recently thought of an idea that could be beneficial.

Chaff decoys are made from crashfish powder, titanium and salt, and are a 1x1 decoy that fires small, bright baubles in rapid succession. The 1x1 chaff could be used somewhere around 10-20 times before it uses the next chaff block. This could work well for multiple smaller predators like bonesharks and lava lizards, as the chaff is high in volume and will attract a heap of predators with it downwards or away.

I don't know where to go in regards to large predators, because I'd assume the chaff would be too small to interest them, which is where the decoy comes into play. It's larger and is more shaped like something leviathans would take down.

That idea works to bandaid the inefficiency, storage size and material costs, while still leaving the original decoys as a needed thing.

[ImHelping]

The crash powder theory would work better if crash powder was even a thing in the lava biomes.

The lava biomes are where you need things like decoys the most, so gating their materials to stuff found exclusivly OUTSIDE of them, seems a bit off kilter.

While acid shrooms, one of the ingredients for batteries are not found in the lava biomes either? They are much more practical to harvest, and even much more capable of setting up your own harvest of them anywhere you built a growbed, no "Full base" required.

Not so much with crash powder. Which even if wild crash fish have spawned where you look, their nest may not even have poweder in it.

For what it is worth. Unless the Devs pull a "LOL, FOOLED YOU!" and decide to keep shark aggro in the live build. then "Small predators" are not even a factor.

[Kaiserbow]

Originally posted by ImHelping:

The crash powder theory would work better if crash powder was even a thing in the lava biomes.

The lava biomes are where you need things like decoys the most, so gating their materials to stuff found exclusivly OUTSIDE of them, seems a bit off kilter.

While acid shrooms, one of the ingredients for batteries are not found in the lava biomes either? They are much more practical to harvest, and even much more capable of setting up your own harvest of them anywhere you built a growbed.

Not so much with crash powder. Which even if wild crash fish have spawned where you look, their nest may not even have poweder in it.

For what it is worth. Unless the Devs pull a "LOL, FOOLED YOU!" and decide to keep shark aggro in the live build. then "Small predators" are not even a factor.

Oh right, I forgot small predators don't damage the sub anymore.....

But! Possibly have a dual-material recipe, where crashfish powder can be substituted with sulphur.

Now, in terms of use, I have no idea how to apply the chaff decoy, except that it's a smaller and less cosy version of the regular decoy that has a chance of not working, while the regular decoy works every time but is more costly and bigger.

What creatures besides leviathans attack the sub now? Fairly sure that crabsquids still do, and the bright chaff decoy would work amazing for them as they're attracted to lights.

[ImHelping]

All the levithan types, which is about what you would expect.

They said they were adding in amp Eel aggro, but I admit I was lucky on my trip to the lost river and didn't run into any in all my experimental time (It was all seamoth all the time until after I cleared out the disease research lab and left beacons to lead me do the lava land).

Meanwhile, most wanted sea criminal. Crab squids. Honestly the absolute worst thing. If you've got regular power cells a single crabsquid will spam you down from 80%+ power to zero... while your super shield module animation is still going. That was one exciting science lesson. "Hmm, My silent running isn't on cooldown. But I'm playing experimental to test stuff!... welp. EMP > Invulnerable"

A single crabsquid taking offense to you (particularly when in cramped conditions you cant just slow boat past em) represents a far, far greater loss of gameplay time than a sea dragon nearly killing you.

But it's a "soft" pain where you've just lose 20-50 minutes worth of cyclops thermal reactor charging (provided no larva ever touch you). While taking 2 minutes tops to patch up your cyclops good as new is coming off a big scary monster attack.

But then my mindset is the kind where a mezzmer is hypnotizing me and about to eat a chunk out of my face, my real concern is the seconds of air time it's taking up to do that.

[Kaiserbow]

Originally posted by ImHelping:

All the levithan types, which is about what you would expect.

They said they were adding in amp Eel aggro, but I admit I was lucky on my trip to the lost river and didn't run into any in all my experimental time (It was all seamoth all the time until after I cleared out the disease research lab and left beacons to lead me do the lava land).

Meanwhile, most wanted sea criminal. Crab squids. Honestly the absolute worst thing. If you've got regular power cells a single crabsquid will spam you down from 80%+ power to zero... while your super shield module animation is still going. That was one exciting science lesson. "Hmm, My silent running isn't on cooldown. But I'm playing experimental to test stuff!... welp. EMP > Invulnerable"

A single crabsquid taking offense to you (particularly when in cramped conditions you cant just slow boat past em) represents a far, far greater loss of gameplay time than a sea dragon nearly killing you.

But it's a "soft" pain where you've just lose 20-50 minutes worth of cyclops thermal reactor charging (provided no larva ever touch you). While taking 2 minutes tops to patch up your cyclops good as new is coming off a big scary monster attack.

So perhaps the bright chaff decoy could be good for squids, as it's cheap, little space taken and multiple use per block?

:D

[kwong20287]

Not flares?

[ImHelping]

Originally posted by kwong20287:

Not flares?

I admit I've always been convinced "Flares will distract predators" is an elaborate prank. Because every time I've tried using them, they just got ignored and kept coming after me.

Cant even used them to mark off areas for later, due to the combination of temporary duration, and terrible draw distances.

Originally posted by Kaiserbow:

So perhaps the bright chaff decoy could be good for squids, as it's cheap, little space taken and multiple use per block?

:D

I would pay a full power cell for a quick access Squid B Gone. Provided it actually worked.

It sounds expensive until you remember a single crab squid will spam out an entire cyclops set of charged vanilla power cells in literal seconds.

[Kaiserbow]

Originally posted by ImHelping:

Originally posted by kwong20287:

Not flares?

I admit I've always been convinced "Flares will distract predators" is an elaborate prank. Because every time I've tried using them, they just got ignored and kept coming after me.

Cant even used them to mark off areas for later, due to the combination of temporary duration, and terrible draw distances.

Originally posted by Kaiserbow:

So perhaps the bright chaff decoy could be good for squids, as it's cheap, little space taken and multiple use per block?

:D

I would pay a full power cell for a quick access Squid B Gone. Provided it actually worked.

It sounds expensive until you remember a single crab squid will spam out an entire cyclops set of charged vanilla power cells in literal seconds.

The chaff would fall to the floor, luring the squid with them.

Alterra-brand Chaff Decoys: Because ♥♥♥♥ Crabsquid!!