Soulmask

Soulmask

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Eliggz Jun 11, 2024 @ 1:28am
3
NPCs should not be able to parry you
This has got to be the most annoying thing i've ever dealt with in any action combat game ever. Its probably not as bad playing offline or whatever, but online being parried is completely unpredictable and easily the biggest point of frustration i've had playing this game for the last 70 hours. Either make it to where enemies can't parry you, can't execute you, or reduce the amount of time you're staggered by parry/guard break dramatically.
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Showing 16-30 of 42 comments
Eliggz Jun 11, 2024 @ 9:03pm 
Varyn and EpicJune have perfectly understood and explained the point I was making.

To people who think its a "git gud" issue, theres nothing git gud about it. Its an element of gameplay, that online at least, isn't humanly reactable. Yes, to some extent you can "make reads" which is in itself a stupid interpretation of whats really happening, because there are no "tells" in the laggy combat. 99% of the time, by the time you've seen something, the server has already calculated the end result. This idea that this mechanic is somehow a skill issue is idiotic and shows an obvious lack of understanding of how it factors into gameplay.

Theres a reason why in comparable games, like dark souls or elden ring, there are virtually no enemies who can parry you. Its just not a fun mechanic, and the player doesn't interact with it. Or in the case that there ARE enemies who can parry you, there is a tell or pattern that precipitates their attempt at parrying you that justifies the scenario.

To drive this point home further, the current status of parry isn't even a factor on difficulty or challenge because its not something that as a player you can really react or predict. Its not making the game any better. Its not making it any more challenging, or providing depth to the combat, or giving the player any sort of positive experience whatsoever.

Keep in mind, I am talking specifically about the online experience. I have no idea how this translates to single player, and if the effect is mitigated much there or not.
Kuraokami Jun 11, 2024 @ 9:31pm 
Originally posted by Eliggz:
Varyn and EpicJune have perfectly understood and explained the point I was making.

To people who think its a "git gud" issue, theres nothing git gud about it. Its an element of gameplay, that online at least, isn't humanly reactable. Yes, to some extent you can "make reads" which is in itself a stupid interpretation of whats really happening, because there are no "tells" in the laggy combat. 99% of the time, by the time you've seen something, the server has already calculated the end result. This idea that this mechanic is somehow a skill issue is idiotic and shows an obvious lack of understanding of how it factors into gameplay.

Theres a reason why in comparable games, like dark souls or elden ring, there are virtually no enemies who can parry you. Its just not a fun mechanic, and the player doesn't interact with it. Or in the case that there ARE enemies who can parry you, there is a tell or pattern that precipitates their attempt at parrying you that justifies the scenario.

To drive this point home further, the current status of parry isn't even a factor on difficulty or challenge because its not something that as a player you can really react or predict. Its not making the game any better. Its not making it any more challenging, or providing depth to the combat, or giving the player any sort of positive experience whatsoever.

Keep in mind, I am talking specifically about the online experience. I have no idea how this translates to single player, and if the effect is mitigated much there or not.

well git gud, predict the lag in between like the other players!! joking :p

well all in all, you cant do anything about lags tbh even if the dev takes away the parry/block, those lags in combat are still able to kill you.
Zylli Jun 11, 2024 @ 9:43pm 
Originally posted by Tod Soldat:
Yeah it totally sucks when you have to earn a victory in a game, how totally unfair!

PVE enemies don't play by the same rules you do. They have instant reaction time, so their decision to parry is entirely RNG and/or programming. They can interrupt your attacks by damaging you. You can't interrupt their attacks. They can start blocking while you're in the middle of a combo, resulting in a perfect parry that stuns you. You can't start blocking while an enemy is rapidly attacking you with a move like the spear rapid thrusts. You have a limited stamina bar while PVE enemies seemingly do not have to deal with stamina running out. PVE bosses and elites are capable of dealing far more damage than you can at the same level.
Tod Soldat Jun 11, 2024 @ 10:08pm 
Originally posted by Zylli:
Originally posted by Tod Soldat:
Yeah it totally sucks when you have to earn a victory in a game, how totally unfair!

PVE enemies don't play by the same rules you do. They have instant reaction time, so their decision to parry is entirely RNG and/or programming. They can interrupt your attacks by damaging you. You can't interrupt their attacks. They can start blocking while you're in the middle of a combo, resulting in a perfect parry that stuns you. You can't start blocking while an enemy is rapidly attacking you with a move like the spear rapid thrusts. You have a limited stamina bar while PVE enemies seemingly do not have to deal with stamina running out. PVE bosses and elites are capable of dealing far more damage than you can at the same level.
I've interrupted their attacks when they've been in a certain stance with the gold glow/highlight to them. Also it's not purely PVE, there are a fair many PVE servers and people take their troops with them when they go to raid a camp or are just out and about, you have the same option, you can take AI troops with you whether you're playing on PVE or PVP. As far as you not being able to hit on the same level as a boss, why should you be able to?
Age Jun 12, 2024 @ 3:07am 
It's actually quite terrifying and exciting how well-armed and trained AI Companions can tank, dodge and PARRY attacks against boss enemies. I'm not even joking when i say this, they really, really good.

Until their AI gets stuck in middle of dungeon traps, like ground spikes. Then they will die.
Volkov Jun 12, 2024 @ 3:23am 
Originally posted by Zalzany:
Originally posted by Eliggz:
It doesn't dumb anything down at all because its already a mechanic that you don't really interact with as a player, at least not online. The latency on the servers is typically so bad that you can't react to an enemy attempting to parry you. It just happens or it doesn't. Taking it out of the game would only remove those incredibly frustrating moments where you feel like you just get ♥♥♥♥♥♥ over by something out of your control.

Some mechanics in game design just aren't meant to be utilized by NPCs for exactly this reason. They introduce far more frustration than any benefit they bring.
The hell? I parry all the time as a PVE player most the enemies attacks are so damn easy to read its quite easy for me to roll and parry. Seriously pick a closer server or close chrome when you play something is off.

I mean after a while even when they parry is predictable the AI isn't really that advance you just got stop spam clicking and actually "git gud" sigh. I mean the parry stun is main reason I love to do parries in combat do that then do the assignation animation for bonus damage makes the fights way faster and less boring.

Having observed this guys other posts you can disregard him as a disingenuous troll.
Lekker Jun 12, 2024 @ 4:01am 
Those animations need to be way shorter and more chill. Mortal-Kombat style executions are cool, but not when the enemy is supposed to get up after that. No one shall get up after that two-hander butchering, there is nothing left to get up with.
Zylli Jun 13, 2024 @ 9:38am 
Originally posted by Tod Soldat:
Originally posted by Zylli:

PVE enemies don't play by the same rules you do. They have instant reaction time, so their decision to parry is entirely RNG and/or programming. They can interrupt your attacks by damaging you. You can't interrupt their attacks. They can start blocking while you're in the middle of a combo, resulting in a perfect parry that stuns you. You can't start blocking while an enemy is rapidly attacking you with a move like the spear rapid thrusts. You have a limited stamina bar while PVE enemies seemingly do not have to deal with stamina running out. PVE bosses and elites are capable of dealing far more damage than you can at the same level.
I've interrupted their attacks when they've been in a certain stance with the gold glow/highlight to them. Also it's not purely PVE, there are a fair many PVE servers and people take their troops with them when they go to raid a camp or are just out and about, you have the same option, you can take AI troops with you whether you're playing on PVE or PVP. As far as you not being able to hit on the same level as a boss, why should you be able to?

Why should bosses hit so hard that nobody can take the hit? What challenge should a boss in any video game provide to the player? Simply doing more damage than most enemies and having more HP is lazy game design.

Games like Dark Souls and Monster Hunter can get away with imbalanced HP/damage because they give players tools to deal with the situation while ensuring the bosses are predictable and/or give "tells" to indicate their attacks. Multiplayer games tend to account for players' pings by increasing the reaction time window or allowing client-side hit detection. Soulmask does neither. In fact, some attacks are so fast, they are unavoidable.

Soulmask bosses are just terrible to fight. You either have to be on pro-gamer levels, overwhelm them with numbers, or play with lower difficulties.
Last edited by Zylli; Jun 13, 2024 @ 9:39am
Noxsa Jun 13, 2024 @ 10:26am 
its more of the problem that stunned state is to powerfull, and there is no immune state afterwards either or again to low of it. i got into problems ran into a bunch of high levels "yea i know stupid", but once i got stunned they kept me stunned untill i die'd "wat is really annoying and STUPID that the game keeps you stunned that long and that much"
Varyn [GER] Jun 18, 2024 @ 6:24pm 
Random instant parries make higher difficulties a pool of frustration, a lengthy pokemon farm or a stupidly boring slog by only using parry to kill human enemies.
I mean, I often use parry because it feels fun an rewarding. But having to rely on it to not be frustrated by unavoidable deaths is not good design. The enemy cant parry while doing an attack(-combo), but hit trading is unsustainable even with powerarmored attacks. And even if it were sustainable, you often fight outnumbered - hitting more than one target with a swing basically calls for a parry-instadeath. All you can do is farm pokemon until you get the stunfree class skill or the hardened body perk (immune to hitstun while above 50% resilence). Having a Companion can sometimes save you when you F1 the enemy who's about to do the finishing move. Maybe some class skills of him can help too, but having him use them is probably rng and far from reliability.


Once you hit Bronze you can rush the mysterious table (no need to fight if you dont want to) to save your guys data; Afterwards, head to the Flint Tribe Fortress north of the wetlands and get your first temporary 45-50 guy to help you farming more pokemon. You can easily lure out single ones once you understand the difference between "spotted" and "heard" and kill them by parrying them to death (note: you can do several attacks before the window for starting the finisher move ends. The finisher move needs to be done by a light attack infront of the enemy, so hitting him with heavies/skills or from the side is fine).

Once you got a nice main, head to the holy ruins north of the first pyramid to get the 4th mask, which is imho the best on higher difficulties. With a jaguar mount you can easily rush through all the men guarding the pyramids entrance. You can even skip the labyrinth part when jumping right at the wall where you'd come back (one way shortcut, which probably wasnt meant to be used two ways)). To get to the boss just keep rushing straight forward until you're at him, nothing will follow. He can easily be done without ever getting damage. Just bring one corrosion tank, a shield and a hammer. Corrosion tank debuffs his armor, so your attacks wont flinch, i.e. your heavy hammer attack can hit twice for most dps. Use your shield to reliably survive his targeted laser beam (there are other ways, but this one is foolproof once you learned the boss). Each of his attacks are clearly readable: watch out for 2 attacks: 1. he flips his side down to do a whirlwind attack - roll back immediately. 2. he towers all his 4 sides on top of his erm "head" to do his aimed laser attack - equip shield and block until you feel save.

Well, thats it, you got access to the best mask, the almost best pokemon and you can save your precious finds.
Its not even needed to play with perfect remodel switch, as leveling skills is insanely fast and body xp isnt needed as 50 is the maxlevel. I just put it on because i was annoyed to always switch skills and chose proficiency perks.
Well, now the only things to help getting better is the arms race, but at least parries are somewhat solved.
Why am i writing all this? Does it even make sense? too late, too stoned. nighty
Last edited by Varyn [GER]; Jun 18, 2024 @ 6:30pm
No' Name Jun 18, 2024 @ 6:36pm 
I've honestly had no issue with enemies parrying me. I think it maybe only happened once or twice in my 90+ hours of gameplay.

Of course it just required me learning how the enemy plays, predict, and zero in how laggy the combat is, and taking my time instead of just aggressively spamming attacks, hoping to win a battle.

I'm also smart enough NOT to use the main character, because of the proficiency caps being at 50 for them (which is something that needs to change I think), rather, I use someone who is actually GOOD at combat, with next to no negative perks on them.

I've learned that parrying enemy Human npc's is probably the fastest way to take them out, not to mention you can parry more than one at a time throwing them in a staggered state, freeing up much needed time to take out groups.

Point is, it's an Early Access game, and why would they remove something you can do to the enemy, and not fault someone for spamming attacks, and expect the enemy just to be stunlocked to death? Doesn't make much sense.

I'm not saying "Git Gud", but... proof is kind of in the pudding.
Ion Halo Jun 18, 2024 @ 6:58pm 
Agreed. Drastically reduce stun time or at least offer different ways to mitigate this stun.
Borlay Jun 18, 2024 @ 7:10pm 
I feel like best option would be just allow us to roll out from any situation, so then you could react to it, like you got stunned and you can react and roll out which makes fights fun and engaging.

The thing is that NPC basically can perfectly parry all the time since it knows exact moment when you attack which means there is some kind of probability how often it decides to perfectly parry you and since we can't do anything about it it's actual dice roll for us to get stunned or no. Like it's actual dice roll, not even theoretical or whatever.

Which makes those fights a huge BS. We need skill based fights not rolling the dice every time we attack.
Houten Jun 18, 2024 @ 7:42pm 
I think the issue is not really enemies being able to parry you. Its the unequal ability that they can suddenly raise their shield while being flinched in a combo while you comboing them, plus the obnoxiously long stun time.
Varyn [GER] Jun 19, 2024 @ 2:53am 
Originally posted by No' Name:
I've honestly had no issue with enemies parrying me. I think it maybe only happened once or twice in my 90+ hours of gameplay.

Of course it just required me learning how the enemy plays, predict, and zero in how laggy the combat is, and taking my time instead of just aggressively spamming attacks, hoping to win a battle.

I'm also smart enough NOT to use the main character, because of the proficiency caps being at 50 for them (which is something that needs to change I think), rather, I use someone who is actually GOOD at combat, with next to no negative perks on them.

I've learned that parrying enemy Human npc's is probably the fastest way to take them out, not to mention you can parry more than one at a time throwing them in a staggered state, freeing up much needed time to take out groups.

Point is, it's an Early Access game, and why would they remove something you can do to the enemy, and not fault someone for spamming attacks, and expect the enemy just to be stunlocked to death? Doesn't make much sense.

I'm not saying "Git Gud", but... proof is kind of in the pudding.
There's no need to spam attacks to get parried. Enemies can instaparry the first hit you throw out. Playing mostly reactive vs human enemies is the savest way to kill them, but also gets boring when you're basically waiting for enemy's AI to finally do another strike at you. Imho, they should buff normal damage and completely rework/rebalance the overpowered parry mechanic on both sides.
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Date Posted: Jun 11, 2024 @ 1:28am
Posts: 42