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I admit that despite being a part of this community in some form or another for so long that I am rather lacking in in depth knowledge of the game but perhaps we could look at how exactly speed works outside of light rounds. Does it work in someway similar to light rounds in its speed management, increasing more if you have full health? or is it a flat rate based on how many you kill? Otherwise I'm completely out of my depth on why you would get less kills in your NLN3 run.
Either way love to see you all pushing the game so much! I'll be updating the leaderboard over the next couple of days as I am going to look into steams formating (a weird BBcode variation it seems) and seeing if there is a better way to list the information.
No way, thank YOU for such thorough research and testing, this is really amazing.
I checked and it was indeed the first guide you linked to in which I saw this info about healing round speed.
If I understand your hypothesis correctly, at the end, it implies that only normal round kills make the normal round speed increase, and that special round speed depends only on special rounds kills and heals.
If so, a PE strategy would indeed guarantee that whatever speed you reach in a normal round, you get there with fewer overall kills - because your special rounds will always give you fewer kills than in a LL strategy (at least in early game. Your results seem to confirm that.
This is where it would be great to have a word from the devs about those speed increases, but I'm pretty sure they're busy keeping OFDP2 awesome. :)
So I'm thinking of it this way: a survival run is an alteration between normal and special rounds.
Each normal round will give you the same number of kills, so their speed will aways increase in the same way along the run regardless of strategy, if your hypothesis is correct.
The number of kills in special rounds depends on strategy: LL gives way more kills than PE (about 3 times more by your own estimate above). But their speed will also increase according to strategy: with PE it will only increase after several rounds (when you start actually healing), with LL it will increase immediately.
So it kinda boils down to this: how long can you keep LL going? If your hypothesis is correct, the ideal seems to be to play LL as long as possible. Which is what you were already doing.
Oh and one last thing. If you think 7000 kills is a "total failure" in No Luca No... you can go have a nice trophy for yourself. ;)
All I discovered is that speed constantly increases over time... somehow. As you guys said, DEV intervention here would be extremely valuable; if they could, for example, provide a small snippet of code that shows how the game does it. Otherwise, I don't think I can test this accurately.
Anyway what I can test is the average speed of normal rounds over mid/long games (2000 kills), so that's what I did:
Test LL = Losing Lives, entering all special rounds @1HP and getting as much score as possible.
Test PE* = Perfect Early-game, special rounds @10HP, but losing immediately: zero score
ppf = "pixels per frame", the observed speed of enemies
Here are the results:
Test LL: early-game speed is 9ppf @ 0 score (0 normal + 0 special)
Test LL: mid-game speed is 14ppf @ 871 score (325 normal + 546 special)
Test LL: end-test speed is 17ppf @ 2114 score (767 normal + 1347 special)
Test PE*: early-game speed is 9ppf @ 0 score (0 normal + 0 special)
Test PE*: mid-game speed is 16ppf @ 760 score (760 normal + 0 special)
Test PE*: end-test speed is 22ppf @ 2011 score (2011 normal + 0 special)
Important to notice: Test LL 2114 score speed = Test PE* 760 score speed, and Test LL 2114 score has a normal-round component of 767.
Conclusion:
Now it's clear why the LL strategy achieves much higher scores than the PE strategy (which 90% of people use). It allows to "farm" a lot more free kills from special rounds overall.
A PE game ends @ 7000 kills (6000+1000), the speed "6000" being so fast that the player dies
A LL game ends @ 12000 kills (6000+6000), the speed "6000" being so fast that the player dies
It's all about the strategy :)
Yeah that's the ideal, but it was not exactly what I was doing, because I didn't know of all this. I only used the LL strategy to "save some minutes from each run", and then I stopped at 4000 score and continued with the PE strategy because it's safer and I didn't want to die. This means that all my records until now can be optimized if someone just keeps going with the LL strategy past 4000 and as far as possible to farm even higher scores from special rounds. Maybe its possible to reach 13K score with this strategy in 5-Skill-Survival. Anyway, I will leave that task for someone else; I already moved on to other categories.
67978 kills, which is a labor of endurance and patience much, much more than any kind of skill really. :)
I completely failed to take a screenshot at 66666 because I suck, but at least I have video of the end of the run. I have plenty of thoughts stemming from such a long time spent with the game, which I might put in a separate post later.
https://youtu.be/vswHpfxzN0k
For a moment I thought you had uploaded a 10-hour video of your entire run! (lol)
I remember doing something like that a couple of years ago to get the 1st place; and leaving the game paused overnight to continue on the next day... But at the time plenty of hackers used to submit scores of 2.1 billion (MAX_INT).
Thankfully this has not happened again since they reset the leaderboard - it seems legit now.
Thanks! I remember those impossible scores too, they kinda made me not even want to try. But when I reached 20k for the first time and checked the leaderboards again, that 64k on top suddenly seemed like a real possibility.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone beats my record sometime soon(ish), I didn't leave a huge margin above the following two. As a friend said: anytime now there's going to be a random guy scoring 69,420 Nice-BlazeIt casually in one sitting. :D
This took me a bit less than a week, but the actual playtime is about 13-14 hours. So yeah, someone crazy enough could do it in one go.
I wanted to ask: do you know if there's an official high score for a no-skills survival level run, or a one-hit-kill survival level (no skills and you go down to 1HP before your first kill) ? These might be fun to attempt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoKIoOPS9Xs
I did the LL strategy but stopped at around 4000, so it's possible to optimize this run further and get an even higher score.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_VKnsoy55o
This one has the optimized LL strategy - kept losing lives for extra score until 7000 or so. Getting to 9000 is possible with some more focus and persistence.
I'm surprised that adding the 3 skills "only" got you about 1600 extra kills, compared to your 0-skill run. For some reason I expected the difference to be greater, but I'm probably being too optimistic.
Well, at high speeds, a 1600 difference is pretty big. Anyway the difference between 0 and 3 skills in Luca should be proportionately the same as the difference between 0 and 3 skills in normal Survival.
But you are partially right about something: the new "optimized" LL strategy did not do much of a difference. It gave me only a slight advantage compared to before (stopping LL at 4000 and continuing with PE). I'm currently investigating into this. Probably the ideal strategy is a hybrid between PE and LL that maximizes the advantages of both in different phases of the game. But it's too early to draw conclusions; I need to do more tests. Hopefully I will have a new strategy ready by the time I move to Blind Survival.
Personally, I prefer to keep focused on breaking records and making videos; and not create a new thread myself. But if no-one else volunteers, I will do it.
Just give me until the week-end and I'll make a new thread to import all the records here. I think I'll put 1st to 3rd places in each category (most of those will be unclaimed at first, I'm guessing).
I think it'll be best to count places by player, not by score. Meaning: if Coincident has the N highest scores and horheristo the (N+1)th highest, the ranking will be Coincident 1st, horheristo 2nd. What do you guys think?