WazHack

WazHack

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onos_devour Jan 12, 2016 @ 2:10am
List of noob questions
SPOILER WARNING!!!
This thread may contain spoilers, hopefully this is enough of a warning.
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I noticed on one playthrough when I went to cast a spell it said something about forgetting it or that I may not have it forever. Is that a thing? Like once you read a spellbook can you only cast spells for a limited time after that? (This isn't mentionned on the wiki..)

What are some ways in the early game to use scrolls, potions, and wands without getting completely blindsided by adverse effects. People say to use identification scrolls, and scrolls seem the easiest to figure out, but what if that's not an option seeing as how ID scrolls don't fall from the heavens whenever you want them?

How does bard even work? For the most part the creatures are happy but then sometimes they just randomly decide that they don't want to be charmed anymore... There's not nearly enough information on what instruments do and how long something is going to be charmed for. Also is there any way to get a charmed creature to kill other charmed creatures? What does playing an instrument do differently than just having an instrument equipped and walking around?

Should I be buying anything of importance from the shopkeepers ever? Like scrolls perhaps?

After making a wish, how far down the maps do items usually end up?

Why is the Feathered Cap so sought after?

How deep is an average dungeon?

Other than those questions I might go dig through other guides for common equipment lists (rings/ammys, armor, wand strategies, weapons).
Last edited by onos_devour; Jan 13, 2016 @ 3:50pm
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Showing 1-15 of 18 comments
Spells can be forgotten. The first time you read a spellbook you'll see the message "You learn such-and-such." If you read that same spellbook again you'll see "You improve your memory of such-and-such." The highest tier of "spell memory" is when you see "You perfect your memory of..."

But even "perfected" spells will eventually be forgotten, it's only that if you perfect your memory you'll hold onto the ability to cast that spell much longer than if you'd simply read the book once. For this reason, among others, it's a good idea to hang onto spellbooks, even for spells you've "perfected", if you think you're going to want that spell for the duration of your run. Stick them in a chest somewhere, etc., if you don't have the ability to carry them with you.

Just as a very, very rough idea: I've "perfected" Lightning at the very start of the game, and by around 1500 feet or so I saw the message that I was "starting to forget the details." The dungeon itself is 3000 feet deep. So, head back to where the book is stored, read it again to refresh your memory, then continue on.

Regarding scrolls, potions and wands-

Remember that there are other things you can do with a potion aside from drinking it. You can throw them at enemies, and often identify them based on the text you see describing the effect it had on that enemy. "The goblin looks a little drunk", etc. This isn't always beneficial, though. Especially if you find out that you just threw a potion of Gain Level at that angry Dwarf charging you. Still, it's an option, but it's your call whether it's a better option than simply drinking an unkown potion to see what it does.

The same goes for wands. Wands can be used whether or not there's an enemy around to use them on. Zap the wall or ceiling in an empty room. Often that will identify the wand for you, or it may just say it's "not clear what just happened." Again, not always beneficial. I'd hate to waste a wish from a Wand of Wishing by shooting it at a brick wall.

There are also certain vendors who can identify items for you, for a price. I don't recommend reading random unidentified scrolls because there are some that can really, really wreck your day. The farther into a run you are the more they can wreck you. Would you want to lose that shiny +5 crystal armor to a Scroll of Destroy Armour? Still, I've done it, when I felt I had no other options.

Re: the Bard-

Notice when a Bard/Bardess charms an enemy that the enemy is now listed as "mesmerized"? It's just another way of saying charmed, of course, but there's a way to turn them from "mesmerized" into pets, which is simply to feed them. Mesmerized a Dwarf? Feed him some egg goop or the like and watch him change to "Your pet Dwarf". A mesmerized creature can and will eventually break free of your domination, but Pets will only ever turn on you if they're very, very hungry.

Once a creature is your pet you can order it to do any number of useful things. Attack the nearest enemy, retrieve the nearest item, stay, run, etc.

As far as I'm aware there's no base difference among different instruments as far as how effective they are at charming. A lute is as good as a harp, all other things considered, assuming we aren't talking about magical items. Your Bard's personal stats/abilities count much more toward this than what instrument he's using, again assuming it's a base instrument and not enhanced/magical.


I buy Scrolls of Identify from Shops whenever I see them and can afford them. Ditto for Scrolls that Enchant something, or that Charge something. The same goes for beneficial potions. Either buy them, steal them or take them from the corpse of the Shop dealer. Whatever works and is appropriate at the time.

I'm unable to offer advice on fountain wishes since I rarely use them for that purpose. Fountains are usually much more valuable to me as a means of blanking unwanted scrolls so that I can write new ones that will help me, or turning unwanted potions into bottles of clear water which can be blessed by a priest, or by holy water, to turn them into bottles of holy water which can then bless/uncurse *other* items on the fly, when I'm not near a priest.

I believe the Feathered Cap often gives a significant boost to DEX? Again, I'm not a lot of help there. It's not an item I really look for, but then again I don't really *look* for any item except a decent bow in every game, if I can find one.

The dungeon is always 3000 feet deep. There are two side areas: a Gnomish Mine off to the left, or west if you prefer; and a Roman Fort off to the right, or east. Good advice: avoid the Roman Fort, even if you feel as powerful as a god, unless you're prepared to be turned into a pincushion by Roman Archers. Seriously, they can wipe out even the most powerful character if you aren't at the top of your game.

My "standard" tactic is to find the Mines, but not enter them at first. I'll keep going deeper into the base dungeon until I feel I'm hitting a "wall", i.e. that the enemies I'm meeting are beginning to outpace me a bit. At that point I backtrack and enter the Mines. Even though the Mines aren't nearly the challenge that the Roman Fort, much further down, is, those Gnomes can still pack a punch, so be prepared to face multiple enemies wielding wands and riding infernal contraptions that can chew your face off in half a second if you let them. :)


So there you go. There's a whole lot more but I tried to answer your questions without sidetracking too much. Apologies for the wall of spoiler text, but I'm not certain what the policy is on that around here.

Have fun. :)

*edit: I wanted to add in regards to reading random scrolls/using random potions or wands that if you have no choice, you have no choice. If it's a choice between dying and ending your run or drinking a bottle of unidentified orange liquid then by all means chug that liquid. And in the early game I *will* read the first scroll I find multiples of, i.e. I get two "FOOBIE BLETCH" and one "PRIRUCHENE" scroll, you can bet I"m reading that FOOBIE BLETCH.

My reasoning on that is that, in my experience with the game, more often than not the first scroll I find multiples of is a Scroll of Identify. When it isnt' that, it's usually a Scroll of Light. Since the one is very beneficial and the other harmless it's safe to try them out, early on.

Then again once I've found anything I want to keep, a bow or piece of gear or whatever, I stop randomly using *anything* unless it's a "drink this/use this wand/read this scroll or definitely die now" situation. Your mileage may vary.
Last edited by Joki the Disco Bandit; Jan 12, 2016 @ 4:34am
onos_devour Jan 12, 2016 @ 8:51pm 
Interesting.. so are fountains just unreliable? Like it would seem as if wishing would a good way to get items.

I have a feeling that teleporting is pretty important then, I mean how are you backtracking without dying of starvation?

In fact tying into that question ^, I noticed that things randomly seem to appear in cleared parts of maps. Are they being teleported there, or did I happen to miss them, or do things actually spawn on the maps occasionally?

About the gnomish mines, is there only 1 outcome for an elevator or can there be multiple elevators? I ask because I've seen an elevator but it was only at 180ft, so I would imagine it's not THE elevator that leads to the gnomish mines, or?

Anyways, yeah, thanks for the tips... I had been doing most of this stuff to get the text but sometimes there's just no text help. For example I fed my pet a potion and it doesn't say ANYTHING happened. I almost would've preferred that it say "The potion had no apparent effect" or something. I guess it was just the type of potion though..
Fountain wishes can be really powerful, but the wiki is out of date for pricing information. Please update it if you can.

Feathered cap does not give dex. It can give Cha if enchanted, but that's only good for interacting with shops or potential pets.

Teleporting using portal stones is what most people try to do. After you complete the gnome mines you'll have tons of gems.

Enemies spawn all over the dungeon, including eggs. Items do not, unless you count what the monsters are carrying.

There's only one elevator (small part goes up, large part goes down several floors), and it is the gnome mines. They can begin at varying depths.

onos_devour Jan 13, 2016 @ 3:49pm 
Thanks for the responses, I should probably put some spoiler warnings at the top, I didn't even think about it.
jshepler Jan 13, 2016 @ 4:18pm 
The thing about fountain wishes and "how far down" they appear... First of all, you have to pay attention to the text of what appears to be a successful wish. If you worded the wish correctly and you dipped enough coins, you get one of two messages. You want the one that says something like "I wonder if people get what they wish for". If it's the other message, the wish failed so do it again.

Secondly, from what I remember of my experience, successful wish's items show up in the next loaded segment of the dungeon. Each segment is 3 floors - you can tell when it loads the next segment by the slight pause you get when descending the ladder into that segment for the first time. So, for example, if the farthest you've gone is floor 8, then you go back up to floor 4 to do a fountain wish, the item should be in the next segment loaded after floor 8 - somewhere on floors 10-12.

Also note that enemies can pick the stuff up.
walkerfn2002 Jan 14, 2016 @ 9:42pm 
IDing items is a procedure in itself. Use your pet to filter all items going into inventory. This will ID all cursed items. Generally you want to save these for future blessing but some cursed items can be useful.

If your pet dies feed it's corpse every potion in your inventory. Chances are good one will be a potion of healing.

If you know the most common type of scroll drops or hit a vendor scrolls of Identify can be ID'd very quickly. Vendor prices both buying and sellingcan be used. I don't recommend reading unID'd scrolls or quaffing unID'd potions unless in a red-flag situation.

Zap all uncursed wands right away and try to ID by the beam or effect. You may have to zap it at a monster.

Wear uncursed amulets and rings until you can ID their effects. Wands of probing are great for this.

Try on any uncursed armour that could improve your AC.
Originally posted by jshepler:
Secondly, from what I remember of my experience, successful wish's items show up in the next loaded segment of the dungeon..

Do you know what happens if you've already explored the whole dungeon and then wish for something?

Originally posted by Hotblack Desiato:
Often that will identify the wand for you, or it may just say it's "not clear what just happened." Again, not always beneficial. I'd hate to waste a wish from a Wand of Wishing by shooting it at a brick wall.

I don't think this is possible. In my experience, the Wand of Wishing activates no matter where it's pointed.


Originally posted by SUDDExc:
I have a feeling that teleporting is pretty important then, I mean how are you backtracking without dying of starvation?

You might also find a Ring of Teleport control, which helps for teleporting into rooms, stealing all the loot, and ignoring the monsters. You can reveal the map with it, too.
jshepler Jan 19, 2016 @ 3:02am 
Originally posted by DawnTurkey:
Originally posted by jshepler:
Secondly, from what I remember of my experience, successful wish's items show up in the next loaded segment of the dungeon..

Do you know what happens if you've already explored the whole dungeon and then wish for something?

No, I've never done fountain wishes after reaching the bottom. Assuming it works like I think and that Waz did not code an exception for that condition, my guess is you wouldn't get the item.
I once did a wish while unknowingly near the boss, and didn't get the items. That was my guess too.
Originally posted by Yoodiv:
I once did a wish while unknowingly near the boss, and didn't get the items. That was my guess too.

I did several this playthrough, and I think I can confirm this. Nothing happened.
onos_devour Jan 21, 2016 @ 1:21am 
I was wondering... whats everyone's go-to method for IDing stones?
Toss them on the floor and see what happens :)

For gems, I normally pay the gnome. Make sure that if you ID (for example) Diamond, don't ID the other white non-froststones, they'll be worthless glass. While unidentified you can sell them for some gold.
Originally posted by Yoodiv:
Toss them on the floor and see what happens :)

For gems, I normally pay the gnome. Make sure that if you ID (for example) Diamond, don't ID the other white non-froststones, they'll be worthless glass. While unidentified you can sell them for some gold.
But do them one at a time. I've lost several games after finding out I was carrying 2 or 3 gas/firestones...
Last edited by DawnTurkey (CaptTempesta); Jan 21, 2016 @ 2:48pm
I do them all at once. It might waste 1 charge per stone, but it's worth the convenience IMO. Just pick the firestones up before they explode.
onos_devour Jan 22, 2016 @ 2:08am 
Cool.. hopefully I make it passed 400ft one day >.>
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Date Posted: Jan 12, 2016 @ 2:10am
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