Pre nerf Melancholic Angel winner's lounge

[Lacene]

Post nerf weenies get out.

[ImmortalSInn]

Calorie Mate の投稿を引用：

<Blank /> の投稿を引用：

We TXR fans don't hecking give a flying one about new americans needing baby mode to play videogames because they lack in basic human abilities from rotting their brains on dopamine instant rewards all day long watching trash on the internet or playing exploitative garbage like fortnite.

I want the game to do well, but I dont want it to do well literally continuing the decline of japanese culture in japanese games for western audiences.

Stern. Stern but fair.

Just reread my post. Was kind of a ♥♥♥♥ about it. I'll sum up my thoughts better. My only issue with Angel how it was is that she isn't the end boss. After losing, reworking my car and approach to previous opponents, and then winning, and then coming up against some "random boss" and having no recourse but to basically cause her to wreck to win and then easily, I mean literally no issue beating Cinderella, made it feel cheap. Nerf Angel. Buff Cinderella... I still stand by my point of losing new players though. I don't care where a new player lives. I'm a fan of the series and Japanese culture as a whole, as much as I know of it from the outside looking in for 25 years. Why would I not want more people to experience it and not leave with a bad taste in their mouth from something like this?

[Cr4ckHorse]

This thread has devolved from a funny meme to people throwing their weight around for being familiar with the franchise. I'm looking forward to more of the game no matter the difficulty but seeing the amount of man children saying "back in my day" doesn't fill me with hope that this is gonna be a flourishing community. No one cares if you played the franchise, having played games doesn't mean you can be tossers to newcomers.

[Calorie Mate]

Cr4ckHorse の投稿を引用：

This game is gonna have a horrible gatekeeping problem lmao.
For the love of god if you guys push away newcomers you're gonna increase the chance this becomes a dead project.

Nothing wrong with gatekeeping.
The new people who infest a hobby and instantly demand it needs to change according to their tastes are the real problem.
This game is doing fine already.

[<Blank />]

Cr4ckHorse の投稿を引用：

I don't mind you guys having feedback lmao, all I'm say it to not be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to other people giving their opinions. What you've said really just cements the idea I have that you just want it all for you and no one else.

There is a very key difference here, at least to me. Perhaps it is delusion? I don't know.

It's not at all that I want it all for me and no one else.

I want everyone to enjoy the game. But everyone *can't* enjoy a game. We all have opinions on what we want as individuals for the game and some of those will be in direct opposition.

I want everyone to enjoy the game - but not at the cost of established series tropes and design. I want a new TXR, not something vaguely resembling TXR but is more marketable because 'audiences'.

This is not a battle I expect to win at all, because Genki will ultimately do what is best for their business and what is best for their business is mass market appeal and mass market appeal is....

Forza Horizon and Forza Horizon adjacent features. More or less. If it's not mimicking the big game on the block, it's not going to have mass market success. That's the truth of the current industry.

But that being said, I have at least listened to the criticisms of pre-nerf angel - found out for myself she wasn't 'that bad' and offered an alternative viewpoint that goes largely ignored because (to me) nobody put the time or effort into actually defeating her on account of lowering demands to be more palatable for them in particular.

It's a push-pull of desires. But while I don't want anyone to be miserable, I also don't want the game to take a sanitised direction. It's okay for a game not to be 'for' people. I want Genki to make the game they WANT to make, not a game they're forced to make, to make money.

[Cr4ckHorse]

Calorie Mate の投稿を引用：

Cr4ckHorse の投稿を引用：

This game is gonna have a horrible gatekeeping problem lmao.
For the love of god if you guys push away newcomers you're gonna increase the chance this becomes a dead project.

Nothing wrong with gatekeeping.
The new people who infest a hobby and instantly demand it needs to change according to their tastes are the real problem.
This game is doing fine already.

A little gatekeeping is good, but when the gatekeeping just becomes insults and calling eachother trash or crybabies it's no good for anyone.

[ballanugraha]

defeat MELANCHOLIC ANGEL on first try, thanks to the traffic LOL. later boss is so much faster than her though, having hard time beating shuwa shuwa

[Cr4ckHorse]

<Blank /> の投稿を引用：

Cr4ckHorse の投稿を引用：

I don't mind you guys having feedback lmao, all I'm say it to not be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to other people giving their opinions. What you've said really just cements the idea I have that you just want it all for you and no one else.

There is a very key difference here, at least to me. Perhaps it is delusion? I don't know.

It's not at all that I want it all for me and no one else.

I want everyone to enjoy the game. But everyone *can't* enjoy a game. We all have opinions on what we want as individuals for the game and some of those will be in direct opposition.

I want everyone to enjoy the game - but not at the cost of established series tropes and design. I want a new TXR, not something vaguely resembling TXR but is more marketable because 'audiences'.

This is not a battle I expect to win at all, because Genki will ultimately do what is best for their business and what is best for their business is mass market appeal and mass market appeal is....

Forza Horizon and Forza Horizon adjacent features. More or less. If it's not mimicking the big game on the block, it's not going to have mass market success. That's the truth of the current industry.

But that being said, I have at least listened to the criticisms of pre-nerf angel - found out for myself she wasn't 'that bad' and offered an alternative viewpoint that goes largely ignored because (to me) nobody put the time or effort into actually defeating her on account of lowering demands to be more palatable for them in particular.

It's a push-pull of desires. But while I don't want anyone to be miserable, I also don't want the game to take a sanitised direction. It's okay for a game not to be 'for' people. I want Genki to make the game they WANT to make, not a game they're forced to make, to make money.

Honestly fair, sane way to put it. I agree this game should be made in the image the devs want it to be made and not what people looking in from the outside outright want.
It is true not everyone can enjoy the game, but it is at least worth trying compromises to try to please as many as possible.

I should specify, I love the game in the current state, it fills a hole for me that racing games haven't filled in a long time. Because of this I REALLY want to see it flourish. I thought pre patch it was fun, but if changing one rival keeps a good chunk of players around to experience more and acclimate then I see no harm.

[Domunicas]

ballanugraha の投稿を引用：

defeat MELANCHOLIC ANGEL on first try, thanks to the traffic LOL. later boss is so much faster than her though, having hard time beating shuwa shuwa

I assume you resisted buying angels car as that makes it too easy IMO

[ImmortalSInn]

<Blank /> の投稿を引用：

Cr4ckHorse の投稿を引用：

I don't mind you guys having feedback lmao, all I'm say it to not be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to other people giving their opinions. What you've said really just cements the idea I have that you just want it all for you and no one else.

There is a very key difference here, at least to me. Perhaps it is delusion? I don't know.

It's not at all that I want it all for me and no one else.

I want everyone to enjoy the game. But everyone *can't* enjoy a game. We all have opinions on what we want as individuals for the game and some of those will be in direct opposition.

I want everyone to enjoy the game - but not at the cost of established series tropes and design. I want a new TXR, not something vaguely resembling TXR but is more marketable because 'audiences'.

This is not a battle I expect to win at all, because Genki will ultimately do what is best for their business and what is best for their business is mass market appeal and mass market appeal is....

Forza Horizon and Forza Horizon adjacent features. More or less. If it's not mimicking the big game on the block, it's not going to have mass market success. That's the truth of the current industry.

But that being said, I have at least listened to the criticisms of pre-nerf angel - found out for myself she wasn't 'that bad' and offered an alternative viewpoint that goes largely ignored because (to me) nobody put the time or effort into actually defeating her on account of lowering demands to be more palatable for them in particular.

It's a push-pull of desires. But while I don't want anyone to be miserable, I also don't want the game to take a sanitised direction. It's okay for a game not to be 'for' people. I want Genki to make the game they WANT to make, not a game they're forced to make, to make money.

Your reply to me pissed me off. Reading your replies to others, made me try to put my thoughts in a better, less Ahole way. This. This post I agree with 100 percent. I have been waiting for TXR to come back for over a decade. I'd be heartbroken if it turned into another Forza Horizon/Need for Speed. I also want other people to see there is a better racing game out there. And am worried that races like the Angel race will push newcomers back to those other titles.

[Cr4ckHorse]

ImmortalSInn の投稿を引用：

Your reply to me pissed me off. Reading your replies to others, made me try to put my thoughts in a better, less Ahole way. This. This post I agree with 100 percent. I have been waiting for TXR to come back for over a decade. I'd be heartbroken if it turned into another Forza Horizon/Need for Speed. I also want other people to see there is a better racing game out there. And am worried that races like the Angel race will push newcomers back to those other titles.

This is pretty much my through process too, recent racing game players are used to Forza and newer NFS' and even they are mostly sick of that style. Acclimating new players through compromises is going to help keep players around to support the game.

[lemonad3wrx]

Domunicas の投稿を引用：

TN Hoff の投稿を引用：

I literally did not. Plenty of folks did complain about the balance with MA (I am not among them), and Genki listened to them. They also accommodated the people who liked the challenge. The whinging in this thread is pathetic.

What they implemented was quite a good compromise IMO

I think so, too.

I beat pre-nerf MA twice, and then I thought "I guess faster cars like S15 or new BRZ, or some more upgrades should be available to beat her". Then Genki brought this update to make MA some more beatable for story progression AND giving a challenge to unlock brokenly fast car in current version. That's the work of professional.

[Cr4ckHorse]

lemonad3wrx の投稿を引用：

Domunicas の投稿を引用：

What they implemented was quite a good compromise IMO

I think so, too.

I beat pre-nerf MA twice, and then I thought "I guess faster cars like S15 or new BRZ, or some more upgrades should be available to beat her". Then Genki brought this update to make MA some more beatable for story progression AND giving a challenge to unlock brokenly fast car in current version. That's the work of professional.

Honestly that's really fair, not many devs would put that much effort into accommodating 2 different fields of players.

[Domunicas]

lemonad3wrx の投稿を引用：

Domunicas の投稿を引用：

What they implemented was quite a good compromise IMO

I think so, too.

I beat pre-nerf MA twice, and then I thought "I guess faster cars like S15 or new BRZ, or some more upgrades should be available to beat her". Then Genki brought this update to make MA some more beatable for story progression AND giving a challenge to unlock brokenly fast car in current version. That's the work of professional.

I think they realised they had to be careful not to upset both sides of the argument/debate :)

[Calorie Mate]

ImmortalSInn の投稿を引用：

Your reply to me pissed me off. Reading your replies to others, made me try to put my thoughts in a better, less Ahole way. This. This post I agree with 100 percent. I have been waiting for TXR to come back for over a decade. I'd be heartbroken if it turned into another Forza Horizon/Need for Speed. I also want other people to see there is a better racing game out there. And am worried that races like the Angel race will push newcomers back to those other titles.

Problem with this line of thinking is: where do you draw the line?
TXR always had these bosses and the games found their audience still. Even back in the day where racing competition was stiff.
If you change the game's famous aspects - and I'd argue that the insane bosses are series staple - to ease newcomers in, then where do you draw the line?

I'm less annoyed with the nerf itself than I'm with the precedent it sets. If this is going to happen to the mid-late game bosses too, I can tell you already that Genki will piss off longtime fans.
And for what? For the ten Forza fans who don't cry about the lack of realism all day?

I'd say 80-90% of the current player base, which is more than most expected it to have, are old fans. And those tastes should take precedent.

[ImmortalSInn]

Cr4ckHorse の投稿を引用：

ImmortalSInn の投稿を引用：

Your reply to me pissed me off. Reading your replies to others, made me try to put my thoughts in a better, less Ahole way. This. This post I agree with 100 percent. I have been waiting for TXR to come back for over a decade. I'd be heartbroken if it turned into another Forza Horizon/Need for Speed. I also want other people to see there is a better racing game out there. And am worried that races like the Angel race will push newcomers back to those other titles.

This is pretty much my through process too, recent racing game players are used to Forza and newer NFS' and even they are mostly sick of that style. Acclimating new players through compromises is going to help keep players around to support the game.

Honestly why I think my first post was so aggro. I haven't played, more than 20 minutes, of any NFS games since Carbon. Loved Forza 1-4 and Horizon 1 and 2. But I was so lacking a racing game recently I bought Import Tuner Challenge on EBay for like 35 bucks. The thought of this game not doing well, which might be me being overly worried based on the reviews and personal playtime, makes me upset.

The difficulty in the game up to Angel was a steady thing for me. Mostly win no issue, occasionally lose and have to think my way into winning. The difficulty spike at Angel to me felt too steep. Was like I sat down to play a hack and slash and 2 hours in I'm fighting a boss that needs Dark Souls level skill. And te reason I worry about new player retention is based on real world info. My best friend is stepping into the TXR world for the first time and almost quit due to this race. And he isn't a commercial gamer. In my eyes it's a real threat. Maybe not to the games success person but to the potential of the series longevity from here on.