Tips for hard mode

[Icedfate]

does anyone have any tips for hard mode? i dunno, i have gotten like every single achievemtn in the game even the 10 win streak on normal.
i only have left:
"beat the game on hard in less than an hour"
"beat the game on hard without juice"
"kill a feral cat champion" (in over 100 runs never saw this once, is it only in hard mode?)
and "get all the other achievments"

even on normal, the fastest clear time i ever got was 59:16 and that was a vastly OP god run where i got all the best items and perks and was literally clearing rooms in seconds and even killing bosses in a few seconds and i 1 shot the admins with super augmented chalk and then spammed 7 chalk on the final boss and killed it in 2 seconds.

even on normal the lowest damage run i ever had was 840 and that was because i managed to get all the dodge up items and used the dodge while rolling lesson and got the roly poly in a later level and had 100% while rolling, I average around 1400 damage per run.
I tried it with the 777 lesson and couldn't even get to Regan...

and the developers are saying some people can get to the end of the game without getting hit once.

i dunno how this is possible, the hard mode bosses are insane, like the leafy oversight all the spores move at hyper speed you can't kill them quick enough then he reabsorbs them and his shots are so close together its imposible to dodge.
or getting cyndars timekeeper and the time bubbles slow you and he makes arms that have no gaps in them so when they pass by its impossible to dodge.
so how do people "not get hit"?!


don't get me wrong, i love this game, some people hate on it because it liooks like binding of isaac but thats preciseley why i like it,
but...since there's nothing left to achieve except the hard mode speed run and the no juice hard mode, i'm almost ready to quit.

[Mephi-Dross]

I would like to bump this. I'm currently stuck on the two hard mode achievements as well. What lessons do you use for hard mode and what items/perks would you say are necessary?

[shead]

The only people I know that have the hard mode achievements used the coin glitch to have absurd damage.

[KingTwelveSixteen]

Well, I know how to kill Cyndar's Timekeeper on hard.

His gears have gaps between them.
Gaps that are smaller than your hitbox, if you are placed just right.

I recommend the area below Cyndar - between his two farthest reaching gears - it just barely misses the slow-time field and makes it easier to fit since it's farther away.
Only works well if you have some way of hitting at farther distances though, otherwise you need to move forwards an inch every time you want to hit him.

[Mephi-Dross]

Cyndar is not a really a problem, even on hard mode. Regan and upwards is the main problem. Most of the time I can reach Regan, and I do manage to defeat her. Though afterwards things start to look pretty grim.

I also tend to restart a run if I just barely make it past Regan. Because I know that I can't get much further with that build anyway.

[ChaosSabre]

I don't think the 777 lesson is the way to go for it. I think you should get the effigiy and hope you get some way to keep your health up without juiceboxes. Regan can be taken down fast if you are willing to waste your chalk supply. My problem is the bosses upwards from there mostly. But yeah those two are pretty silly to get. I think it's possible to beat the game without getting hit but I'm nowhere near that kind of skill level. I can dodge most of the stuff decently but not to that extent XD

[Mephi-Dross]

Yeah, same here. The Hallpass is a great item for me, since I do tend to make a mistake in a room... but only one.

I think my best start for a non-juicebox run would be Hallpass, Crit plate and the 2% health per token perk.

[Icedfate]

i find that chalk is useless unless i get at least count of monte chalko and the chalk arrows.

and on cyndar's timekeeper, normally every arm has a gap you can run between but when he is almost dead, like 10-20% health he starts making an arm that has no gaps at all in it and the only way to avoid it is to have some dodge% and hope it procs

and doing a run without using a juicebox...you only start off with like 100 health. you would have to win without taking 100 damage?! the end boss does 36 or 38 per hit or something like that. at least with the 777 lesson that ups the total damage you can take up to 777.

I'd just like to hear what some of you guys pick for lessons
I usually use the one that +25% dodge while rolling
i take the double invincibilty after getting hit
i take the shooting while rolling
the extra champion spawns
and the increased level size by 3 rooms.

but then the game takes too long, i can't explore all the rooms and speed run it at the same time, but if i don't make the levels larger and have extra champions and explore every room, i don't find enough powerups and end up being gimped and can't win


when you get to a boss like the leafy oversight and your still doing 80-84 damage and don't even have a sock puppet, thats a game killer

[gbsufop]

so far I`ve made successful runs on normal mode in less than 55 minutes. I use the lesson of starting at level 2, so I can always choose what perk to start with. I keep restarting until I get the perk +1 damage per coin in posession. Then, I try not to spend ma+ny coins and choose the correct perks. I always choose +3/+2 damage for each juice box used, in case they show up. but what makes it all easier for me is the combo +1 damage per coin in posession plus 20% of interest in the coins in the end of each level plus thorned clover. I`ve managed to get more than 300 coins in a run once. but for that, you have to be lucky for the game to give you everything you need.

[gbsufop]

so.. you start with 86 of damage. let`s assume you are lucky enough to get the thorned clover, the +3 damage for each juice box used and the 20% of interest in the coins before the end of chapter 2. now let`s assume you are even luckier to have found the fragile glassware to always inflict critical damage in the chapter 3. Now you can inflict colossal damage by choosing a sensitive floor. try not to break your fragile glassware, and all of the bosses are dead in 3 seconds.

[gbsufop]

as for the hard mode, I have no idea if this is going to work. gonerill brutalized me in hard mode. It`s ridiculous how diffcult it is. if someone knows how to defeat her without taking damage, share with us. regan in hard mode should be ridiculous as.

[Icedfate]

that's good advice, but i've mastered normal mode. hard mode is just ridiculous and the game has changed since i started this thread. now fragile items are even more fragile, some of the perks have been nerfed, items have been nerfed, and they added some more items to the mix which makes more items in the pool and makes it even harder to get the items i need.

I guess my biggest mistake is not recognizing when the game is trolling me. if i noticed sooner when i was being trolled i could just give up and start a new run.

instead, i try to make every run work and play with what i have and 9 times out of 10 i get to goneril with still 80-84 damage and no juice box augments and no shot upgrades.
I just played 6 runs today and not once did i even see any of the juicebox perks and i only got the token damage perk once. it seems like they made it even harder.

i can just play on normal mode but i already can win normal mode 95% of the time. all i have left is beat hard in under an hour and beat hard without juice, and the champion feral cat which i'm not even sure it exists...

[gbsufop]

the champion feral cat does exist. I`ve met one only once. You have to get the memory for its achievement, though. Otherwise, I reckon it`s unlikely for it to appear.
I see no other option for the achievement of not using juice boxes in hard mode rather than taking the 777 health lesson.

[Icedfate]

i actually did manage one time to do a run where i only took 200 damage but that was before they capped dodge at 75% and i took the 25% lesson and got the roly poly and enough dodge items in the first 2 floors i had 100% dodge while rolling.
I suspect this is how the people the devs talked about got through the game without taking damage.
the way it is now, you have to be a gaming god to do it.
I like hard games but i think i'm gonna have to give up on these achievements.
i'm a platinum god on isaac but I can't do this game on hard.
some of these bosses have thousands of health and when your doing 80-84 damage per shot its like trying to fight Jason Vorhees with rocks...

[Mephi-Dross]

I think the 777 health lesson is a bad choice if you want to do a no-juicebox hardmode run. Why? Because you can't heal through other means either. Get the 2% life per token, chalk clouds heal and lifesteal and you don't really need juiceboxes. With the lesson, your only chance are life up perks.

My lowest damage run is something like 231 I believe. However that was on normal, so there's that.

[BiracialMage]

Originally posted by Mephi-Dross:

I think the 777 health lesson is a bad choice if you want to do a no-juicebox hardmode run. Why? Because you can't heal through other means either. Get the 2% life per token, chalk clouds heal and lifesteal and you don't really need juiceboxes. With the lesson, your only chance are life up perks.

My lowest damage run is something like 231 I believe. However that was on normal, so there's that.

Taking 777hp and Schadenfreude while snagging any hp up perks I could was actually pretty easy. It took a couple tries, but that's just because I needed to not get certain bosses. You don't need to heal when you're given more than enough health to beat the game with.