Concerns regarding the release and long term gameplay

[#1 CLIMBER]

The Overview Trailer states: "With every expedition, bases, enemy types, chest rewards, and other features of the field will fluctuate."

By "bases," I assume this refers to randomized castles and dungeons. If the developers can implement this effectively, Nightreign could have impressive longevity. However, this kind of procedural generation is difficult to pull off with current technology. If they can't manage it, we may see a repeat of the network test situation—identical bases and enemies—causing the maps to feel static rather than dynamic.

Suppose each Night Lord encounter is preceded by 3 different environment settings. With 7 Night Lords, that gives us 7×3 = 21 configurations, which may fall short of delivering the replayability Nightreign is aiming for. I suspect Limveld could start feeling repetitive after around 50 hours.

That said, the inclusion of random events that evolve the map in unexpected ways might be the saving grace for its replay value.

Finally, gameplay randomization is only half the equation—balancing is just as crucial. It's likely that certain gear will become "meta" early on, but if the devs can adjust balance quickly, it shouldn't be a long-term issue.

What do you think? What are your concerns regarding the release or long term gameplay?

Update: I've been watching the game live on twtich.. But the night bosses seems to be very poorly designed. The attacks are either telegraphed so badly or they just aoe and there is a gimmick.

The enemies used from ER has so many health, and the for example 3rd night lord's level is always the same. There are cool bosses before the Night Lord that are reused from the previous titles but the others are just hordes of enemies which is so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying to me. I'm very disappointed with this.

[Asset]

The average person has a $1/hour of gameplay ratio, so 50 hours is fair, but you also have to take into consideration of doing all those "configurations" with all the classes too, and there will be more than 10 classes after the dlc comes out.

Personally I hope they expand on the relic system and end-game stuff. The main thing players will be chasing is god-tier relics for permanent progression of the classes, making their class the best it can be, then move on to the next class. Doing it in this way I can see myself getting at least 30hrs per class

[Kawaiian Pizza]

I was concerned at first but they've already announced additional content coming to the game later this year with more playable characters and more bosses. So it seems like they're going to continue to add to the game.

[Vanrick]

Originally posted by Asset:

The average person has a $1/hour of gameplay ratio, so 50 hours is fair, but you also have to take into consideration of doing all those "configurations" with all the classes too, and there will be more than 10 classes after the dlc comes out.

Personally I hope they expand on the relic system and end-game stuff. The main thing players will be chasing is god-tier relics for permanent progression of the classes, making their class the best it can be, then move on to the next class. Doing it in this way I can see myself getting at least 30hrs per class

time is not equivalent to money, when it comes to games.
You dont feel the same from dumping 200 hours into a multiplayer game at 30$ compared to 20 hours into a horror survival singleplayer game at 30$. Most people would value way more a shorter experience than a long somewhat bland experience.

Feeling is key here, and its usually affected by how dynamic, novel and surprising the game is.

So even if Nightreign is 50 hours multiplayer game for 45$ i doubt it would be worth it unless there is a sense of novelty to it. Remains to be seen how revolutionary its.

[Kawaiian Pizza]

Originally posted by Vanrick:

Originally posted by Asset:

The average person has a $1/hour of gameplay ratio, so 50 hours is fair, but you also have to take into consideration of doing all those "configurations" with all the classes too, and there will be more than 10 classes after the dlc comes out.

Personally I hope they expand on the relic system and end-game stuff. The main thing players will be chasing is god-tier relics for permanent progression of the classes, making their class the best it can be, then move on to the next class. Doing it in this way I can see myself getting at least 30hrs per class

time is not equivalent to money, when it comes to games.
You dont feel the same from dumping 200 hours into a multiplayer game at 30$ compared to 20 hours into a horror survival singleplayer game at 30$. Most people would value way more a shorter experience than a long somewhat bland experience.

Feeling is key here, and its usually affected by how dynamic, novel and surprising the game is.

So even if Nightreign is 50 hours multiplayer game for 45$ i doubt it would be worth it unless there is a sense of novelty to it. Remains to be seen how revolutionary its.

Trailer makes the game look super novel imo. It also gives the vibe of something that they really wanted to make and its not like From has had a whole lot of misses.

[Vanrick]

Originally posted by Kawaiian Pizza:

Originally posted by Vanrick:

time is not equivalent to money, when it comes to games.
You dont feel the same from dumping 200 hours into a multiplayer game at 30$ compared to 20 hours into a horror survival singleplayer game at 30$. Most people would value way more a shorter experience than a long somewhat bland experience.

Feeling is key here, and its usually affected by how dynamic, novel and surprising the game is.

So even if Nightreign is 50 hours multiplayer game for 45$ i doubt it would be worth it unless there is a sense of novelty to it. Remains to be seen how revolutionary its.

Trailer makes the game look super novel imo. It also gives the vibe of something that they really wanted to make and its not like From has had a whole lot of misses.

if this was a singleplayer experience , no doubt i would buy it since fromsoft has never fail to deliver masterpiece after masterpiece... but a primarily multiplayer game?
mmm i dont know, im doubting more whether i like it for me than doubting fromsoft. I would wait for day 2 or 3 reviews and if it convince me i will buy it, even through im super hype about anything fromsoft related.

[mpcgannon]

What are the technical limitations that procedurally generated dungeons are facing?

[Asset]

Originally posted by Vanrick:

Originally posted by Asset:

The average person has a $1/hour of gameplay ratio, so 50 hours is fair, but you also have to take into consideration of doing all those "configurations" with all the classes too, and there will be more than 10 classes after the dlc comes out.

Personally I hope they expand on the relic system and end-game stuff. The main thing players will be chasing is god-tier relics for permanent progression of the classes, making their class the best it can be, then move on to the next class. Doing it in this way I can see myself getting at least 30hrs per class

time is not equivalent to money, when it comes to games.
You dont feel the same from dumping 200 hours into a multiplayer game at 30$ compared to 20 hours into a horror survival singleplayer game at 30$.

This is entirely your OPINION though. 200 hours for a $30 game? I don't think you realize the insane value in that. I've had this same argument with someone else 11 years ago when Alien isolation came out, i'm not paying $60 for a 15 hour game, sorry bud...doesn't matter how good the game is. I value my money, maybe you don't value yours, I value the bang for my buck. Also a $30 game for 20 hours gameplay isn't worth it.

You don't even own Nightreign so any opinion you share on the game is invalid by default.

[Kawaiian Pizza]

Originally posted by Asset:

Originally posted by Vanrick:

You don't even own Nightreign so any opinion you share on the game is invalid by default.

This is crazy hilarious seeing as the game isnt even out yet. Pre-ordering means literally nothing, bud.

And you may value your money more than your time, but most people value their time more. I guess you just don't value yours?

[Vanrick]

Originally posted by Asset:

Originally posted by Vanrick:

time is not equivalent to money, when it comes to games.
You dont feel the same from dumping 200 hours into a multiplayer game at 30$ compared to 20 hours into a horror survival singleplayer game at 30$.

This is entirely your OPINION though. 200 hours for a $30 game? I don't think you realize the insane value in that. I've had this same argument with someone else 11 years ago when Alien isolation came out, i'm not paying $60 for a 15 hour game, sorry bud...doesn't matter how good the game is. I value my money, maybe you don't value yours, I value the bang for my buck. Also a $30 game for 20 hours gameplay isn't worth it.

You don't even own Nightreign so any opinion you share on the game is invalid by default.

???????? ha?????? the game isnt out, how is my opinion and yours are any different if no one has play the game yet, not even the people who pay for it already.
I could facepalm myself even harder if i had another arm....

[Vanrick]

Originally posted by Kawaiian Pizza:

Originally posted by Asset:

This is crazy hilarious seeing as the game isnt even out yet. Pre-ordering means literally nothing, bud.

And you may value your money more than your time, but most people value their time more. I guess you just don't value yours?

This Asset guy, seems to think he has to cover all his free time with videogames, no matter how good or bad they are , how sad, but yea .... some people value time and most importantly quality time. So you are right.

[Birck]

$1 per hour in gaming is such a dumb metric, I have played games for over 100 hours and found the experience meh and I have played games for 4-5 hours and enjoyed myself a ton.

This is like claiming the best restaurant in town is the one that serves the most food per order, which is just not how anyone does things.

It's also an outdated metric I heard that thing first back in like 2000 it's been 25 years what you could buy for $1 in 2000 vs. now is wildly different. $1 is worth a lot less in 2025 than it was in 2000.

[GrandAngel]

Don't forget about weapon variation and build opportunities. Everything will be randomized, just like... for example, a game I've used as a main point before, Dead Cells. The whole draw with Dead Cells is that it is a game that mainly focuses on builds surrounding a distinct amount of weapons and skill items, sure, the procedural generation is a really good touch, especially since it's a 2.5d game, so it's easier to pull off, but it's not the main draw of the game... but it's nonetheless an essential feature that makes the game feel less repetitive.

From what I saw in the Network Beta Test, and from what I've seen in the trailers, it does seem like the map seed variation is going to be very different between runs, and may look similar to each other sometimes on selective runs, but it's not that it's supposed to look incredibly different every run, it only needs to be different a little bit to make sure that every run doesn't become stale too quickly... but, that's completely up to how the player themselves experience randomization variation. I am one of the players that literally looks a rock out of place and the entire map changes in my perspective... though, I am not unaware that not everybody is like this, lol. Some people will get completely different seeds and then say "this looks the exact same to the other run..."

Okay, my main point now. Weapon variations. That's pretty much what everything hangs on. Being able to make decisions on the fly, while also getting decision-paralysis, like one gets in Dead Cells, is what is going to make the game's "stay-on-your-feet" gameplay loop really shine. Don't get surrounded, don't stay still too long, and don't let your guard down. That in combination with having enough weapon and skill variety... like, come on, Elden Ring already has basically a stupid weapon pool, that's why I love this game already, it shouldn't be any problem at all.

Look at Dead Cells, that game has basically no boss randomization and the Environment Randomization is superficial at best, but yet it's still fun hundreds of hours laters, on both repeated and consecutive playthroughs. That's due to how many weapons there are in that game, as well as how many build variations you can make with weapons, skills, and mutation selections. It's all about "Will this get me by? Or will it completely ♥♥♥♥ me in this biome?"

The fact that Nightreign is coop makes it even better, because you know for a fact that your teammates are gonna have the exact same problem while you're having it, which makes it even more fun. Indecision and decision-paralysis makes it fun because it stunts you on what the next correct option for your game is...

"is keeping the level 1 (common) Rivers of Blood with 242 AR the right play, since I have a build that compliments attack power when I bleed an enemy... or should I exchange it for a level 4 f**king pickaxe that does 560 attack damage? Oh right, my Executor has an artifact that gives it 2.5% bleed build-up no matter the weapon, so the pickaxe is definitely the way to go---- *gets shot by a Godskin Apostle from the back, losing a level and the pickaxe drop* welp... guess I'm staying with ROB for now"

It really is going to be pure and utter randomizer chaos no matter the environment itself.

[Forgemaster]

Originally posted by Birck:

$1 per hour in gaming is such a dumb metric, I have played games for over 100 hours and found the experience meh and I have played games for 4-5 hours and enjoyed myself a ton.

This is like claiming the best restaurant in town is the one that serves the most food per order, which is just not how anyone does things.

It's also an outdated metric I heard that thing first back in like 2000 it's been 25 years what you could buy for $1 in 2000 vs. now is wildly different. $1 is worth a lot less in 2025 than it was in 2000.

It's more like a base guideline.

If I buy a game that I think I'd enjoy for say, $20.. but beat it in 10 hours or less and it felt kind of meh.. my money was NOT well worth spent... Then there is Helldivers 2.. which I've easily spent $130, right? Despite its bugs and issues and drip feed content... I've logged over 260 hours, and have all the achievements and the excitement steam for that game has just fallen off for me.. I won't get anymore Warbonds or really play it at all unless I see something massive. The coybow Warbond really pissed me off as well as it made ZERO sense for the game.

Playing anything long enough and you'll start to dislike it

[Vanrick]

Originally posted by Forge Master:

Originally posted by Birck:

$1 per hour in gaming is such a dumb metric, I have played games for over 100 hours and found the experience meh and I have played games for 4-5 hours and enjoyed myself a ton.

This is like claiming the best restaurant in town is the one that serves the most food per order, which is just not how anyone does things.

It's also an outdated metric I heard that thing first back in like 2000 it's been 25 years what you could buy for $1 in 2000 vs. now is wildly different. $1 is worth a lot less in 2025 than it was in 2000.

It's more like a base guideline.

If I buy a game that I think I'd enjoy for say, $20.. but beat it in 10 hours or less and it felt kind of meh.. my money was NOT well worth spent... Then there is Helldivers 2.. which I've easily spent $130, right? Despite its bugs and issues and drip feed content... I've logged over 260 hours, and have all the achievements and the excitement steam for that game has just fallen off for me.. I won't get anymore Warbonds or really play it at all unless I see something massive. The coybow Warbond really pissed me off as well as it made ZERO sense for the game.

Playing anything long enough and you'll start to dislike it

with that logic... just play the game as slowly as possible, you get the most value that way.... HOLY COW, what a funny world we leave in, smh...

[#1 CLIMBER]

Guys value differs for each person. Even 60 dollar means different value for each person.(depending on your financial state)

Discussion is not about how valuable the game is, for it will differ to each person but will it achieve what it aims to do; which is "REPLAYABILITY".

I believe nightreign will offer a value that is above sector standards. But can it satisfy its loyal playerbase is the discussion topic here.

Weapon varietion will provide replayability is a good point, but i think its a high expectancy from fromsoft because they failed to deliver a meta-free game yet.

One thing miyazaki can't do is to balance his games. I really am curious how awful meta will be in this game. I hope they prove me wrong since Miyazaki isn't on the wheel this time. If we stick to one overpowered meta weapon or status, it'll kill the replayability in a few runs.