f*** that tree *SPOILERS*

[Spoutz]

Ok, I searched the forums a bit and I seem to be the only person who feels this way, but f*** the tree.
"Oh no, one of my seeds blew away and is living hapily with a forest creature. Better irradiate the forest (and kill some baby owls)"

Considering that the tree's seed (Ori) is fully capable of living a happy/healthy life independently, was there really a need to "call out" to Ori? Seeds fall from trees, that's what's supposed to happen. In my mind, the tree's actions are what caused these events, in the first place (you can't blame an animal - the owl - for acting on it's base instincts to protect its young).

By the time the owl decided to revive the tree, I was thinking "Okay, the only way this tree can redeem itself is if there's some magic way to revive the owl's babies" (because I assume it's going to revive all the other forest creatures, like what happened with Naru). But no, "I'm alive again! Time to incinerate the bird that saved me"

Obviously, not every ending has to be a "they all lived happily ever after" ending, and most people think that the story was good. But I don't really feel like I was working in the interest of an objective 'good'.

anyway, just my 2 cents

[Camui]

Well if you see it that way, it would also be "♥♥♥♥ you Naru"
Everytime the tree almost reaches to communicate to Ori, she is hiding her. So basically biggest guilt to all of this goes to her as she didn't want to share Ori. Maybe they could have also been happy if Ori went back and still visiting her or something. Or Naru is joining in and lives there too. But no, she wanted Ori for her alone and all started.
But all in all great story which begins totally sad and gets a really nice end. Loved the story really much. One of the best game in long time in my humble opinion

[Spoutz]

haha, that's true too.
The people Ori is trying to save definitely aren't blameless, lol. And without the tree there were still thriving plants and animal species.

Why assume those species are evil, just because the attack Ori; they were just trying to stop us from restoring the tree and destroying their habitat, lol. After all, you never see them attack each other, so they're not inherently mean; we just judge them because they're not as cute.

All jokes aside, I guess it's a credit to the story that the world can so easily be painted in shades of grey, instead of just black and white. But yeah, I still like the owl more than the tree :P

[ThatGuy1979]

I believe those creatures that attack you were just regular inhabitants of the forest. What happened was a lot of things were corrupted and so were the creatures because during the beginning sequence we can obviously see a jump in time from when the forest was nice and healthy to where the forest is slowly decaying and dying and such. I don't think the tree was inherently evil, it's just that the light was harmful to some things not because it was evil or mean or anything like that but that some creatures just couldn't stand the light. I think that's why we fight an owl because chose owl's are nocturnal so they'd prefer the darkness. The spirit tree wasn't there to hurt things it was there to stop the forest from being corrupted as it had been. When Kuro brought back the light to the spirit tree, the tree was trying to save the forest. But it also killed Kuro. Not on purpose but as collateral for saving the forest. The tree is kinda one of those things that you can't define as good or evil but that it just is.

[Spoutz]

Originally posted by ThatGuy1979:

I believe those creatures that attack you were just regular inhabitants of the forest. What happened was a lot of things were corrupted and so were the creatures because during the beginning sequence we can obviously see a jump in time from when the forest was nice and healthy to where the forest is slowly decaying and dying and such. I don't think the tree was inherently evil, it's just that the light was harmful to some things not because it was evil or mean or anything like that but that some creatures just couldn't stand the light. I think that's why we fight an owl because chose owl's are nocturnal so they'd prefer the darkness. The spirit tree wasn't there to hurt things it was there to stop the forest from being corrupted as it had been. When Kuro brought back the light to the spirit tree, the tree was trying to save the forest. But it also killed Kuro. Not on purpose but as collateral for saving the forest. The tree is kinda one of those things that you can't define as good or evil but that it just is.

yeah, that's more or less what I was thinking. It wasn't so much of a good vs evil scenario as it was an A vs B. The reason I dislike the tree, though, is that it upset the balance between A and B and set the ball rolling to the disaster we played through. Meanwhile, Kuro just gets the short end of the stick, pretty much from beginning to end.

[Waffle]

Originally posted by Spetznaz:

yeah, that's more or less what I was thinking. It wasn't so much of a good vs evil scenario as it was an A vs B. The reason I dislike the tree, though, is that it upset the balance between A and B and set the ball rolling to the disaster we played through. Meanwhile, Kuro just gets the short end of the stick, pretty much from beginning to end.

Well, technically, it was because of the Great Storm that everything wound up being knocked off-kilter.

And consider this from the Spirit Tree's perspective. He wound up losing one of his own children (and should a parent really consider one of their children with lesser value if they have so many?), and had no way of knowing that Ori was in Naru's care.

And really, by the end of it all, /everyone/ wound up suffering for it. Kuro loses all but one of her children, goes to wipe out an enitre family/species whose only sin was being related to a perpetrator who wasn't even aware of the damage he did, and so on with the entire forest...

[Spoutz]

Originally posted by Nyoomvali:

Well, technically, it was because of the Great Storm that everything wound up being knocked off-kilter.

And consider this from the Spirit Tree's perspective. He wound up losing one of his own children (and should a parent really consider one of their children with lesser value if they have so many?), and had no way of knowing that Ori was in Naru's care.

And really, by the end of it all, /everyone/ wound up suffering for it. Kuro loses all but one of her children, goes to wipe out an enitre family/species whose only sin was being related to a perpetrator who wasn't even aware of the damage he did, and so on with the entire forest...

A parent that loses a child, OK. A tree that loses a seed, that's supposed to happen. But I may be looking at this too litterally, lol

[Big Nate]

I'm a few weeks late to the discussion and I've only completed the game to the midpoint where you find out the tree is responsible for the death of the owlets.

That said - I totally agree. I was confused as to why the light from the tree killed the owls since I wasn't really expecting there to be any lethality to it. I was unhappy to see the resulting deaths and started siding with the owl. Why am I trying to save a tree (forest) that pulls off such a ♥♥♥♥ move?

I've only skimmed the discussion above, but am concluding that moon studios and microsoft might be demonstrating one of life flaws where good intentions leave disasterous consequences or how universal moralities can fill both sides of a conflict. Haven't finished yet, so maybe I'll change my mind, but the tree, in my opinion, is acting the part of a royal turd.

[The Weather Man]

Well, no one side knew that the light would be harmful to the owlets (aside from Kuru , as shown as soon as she sees the light and rushes home, but who could of told anyone.) and the narrator is the ancient tree. Meaning it must not be just some growing mass of wood but probably had thoughts/feelings, meaning it must have tried to call Ori for the same reason Naru tried to hide him/her, they both had a deep regaurd for Ori. (only i have not figured out why the it waited so long)

I'd say that was pretty justified if the tree didn't know everything would have gone so wrong as opposed to knowing but did it without regaurd for Kuro anyways (which would make no sense whatsoever, so that is not likely), right?

If we think of the logic behind every action here, i'd side with the tree (presuming it had no idea about kuru's children , i mean is avenging a loved one really worth a mass extinction event, and even in her rage Kuro did not think for a second about the consequences of removing the one thing that stopped the forest from ripping itself apart completly.

This could also be redirected at Naru (sorry), if she had left Ori before the Ancestrial tree called him (but not before Ori grew up) im sure the whole event could have been avoided?

(also, the Ancestrial Tree refers to the events as 'ages', does this imply something similar happened before the age before the one we play in?)

Also back on the topic of some of the species, i think some of them (the diggers/spitters, which are the same creature) may be part the force responsible for the forests downfall (a way to get the corrupting 'plants' past all the locked doors? if not how are they everywhere?). I mean if you think of them as embodying rot they are nessisary to keep the forest running, or else they would not exist. But they seem to get out of hand and make everything caustic without control as the forest seemed to rot away over the timelapse in the beginning, the same time you encounter them once you are able not watching the cutscene? thats my theory anyway..

(oh god almost everything on how Nibel works is implied! I have so many unanswered questions!)

-edit- side note: lets not forget the Ancestrial Tree basically IS the forest, spirit wells are found everywhere (from the top of the world, the bottom, to a volcano, to a fridgid wasteland in the extreme cases), and we know from Sien that the spirit trees roots are responsible for the spirit wells healing properties and the light is benificial to most of the forest (excluding Kuru's kind, and anything Sien blasts).

So, without the Spirit tree, there is no Nibel, meaning there is no Ori, Naru, Kuro, Gumo, owlets, squirrels (anyone saw these?) or anything else that lives.

[Kyata]

Originally posted by Camui:

Well if you see it that way, it would also be "♥♥♥♥ you Naru"
Everytime the tree almost reaches to communicate to Ori, she is hiding her. So basically biggest guilt to all of this goes to her as she didn't want to share Ori. Maybe they could have also been happy if Ori went back and still visiting her or something. Or Naru is joining in and lives there too. But no, she wanted Ori for her alone and all started.
But all in all great story which begins totally sad and gets a really nice end. Loved the story really much. One of the best game in long time in my humble opinion :tbphappy:

Are you serious Naru wouldn't hear the tree's calling as it is specific to Ori and ri maybe too young to understand what is happening. It simply is the tree's fault .

Hell the tree is even sentient enough to be a narrator in this story. It's BS to think it is stupid enough not to realize it's power.

It didn't just kill Kuro's children it decimated the entire forest and cause the apocalypse in the first place which resulted in more dying. Kuro merely gone berserk and kill anyone near enough her territory to protect her last egg.

[Papyrus is Dead]

Hey there, I know it's been nearly ten years... But I came here to say I agree. F*ck that tree. Kuro supremacy!