Making an Army when not belonging to a Kingdom?

[deece16]

So... I can create other parties at Tier 4, I just can't use them??? That makes no damn sense. I was doing good helping a kingdom take a bunch of territory and then thought to make my own, only to realize that the 600+ troops that in my other parties I can't use to take city? They can magically only join my army if I'm part of kingdom?! So, I can use them to my advantage once I have said kingdom, just not to get said kingdom... that makes sense. Except it doesn't.

[Ruffio]

You can make parties before tier 4. Having other parties before you crate your own kingdom is a good way to train steward skill on companions/family members that could be useful for govenors down the line as well.

Imho would be a bit OP if you could form armies just as a clan.

[RJboxer]

Correct. because of an EASY MODE exploit. Where you do NOT DECLARE as a kingdom <----------

1- If you take over a fief (most likely with cheat mode.. but can be done on legit). relatively easy, it's possible to have a Town and you be low level (clan 2-3-4 etc).

2- You now have a town you can use as base, to store your garbage items, to smith and get rich, to stash all your Max level troops (in garrison for future use) as you level more. etc.

3- your town now keeps growing and getting stronger ... huzzah!!!.

4- All while NEVER BEING ABLE TO BE ATTACKED. You are NOT a kingdom so no one can attack you. Ever. The only combat you will see is when U declare war on someone. (to get the NEXT fief u want). you declare war (attack a random lord of their faction)... take the fief. IMMEDIATELY sue for peace.. pay them a pittance. Spend the next year rebuilding getting stronger etc..

5- Again, can never be attacked. (super cheesy exploit, left in by devs, for some reason or another. and there are a FEW theories why.. I won't get into. Some are legit theories).

6- if you could MAKE army's while NOT being able to be attacked, and OWN fiefs, while NOT being able to be attacked.. how easy would the game be???

You could conquer all of calradia with you, your 2 bros, your sis. and the 3 wives.. 7 of you... and just troops. you could own ALL of calradia in under 20 years.. If u could make armys



So nope.. cant do it.

and that is why

[xao2099]

I am currently doing "easy mode" by taking only rebel cities and attacking castles near- by take the castle, kill the responding armies, take prisoners. wait for the price for peace to get way low or even taking enough enemy lords captive to make them pay me for peace. it's a grindfest because cities are only rebelling once in a long while but,that does give plenty of time to settle that city/castle down and get the loyalty to a high enough number to get construction going, put it this way,i wasn't even married when i took Askar now my oldest kid is 16 ,bout to be a new caravan chief for a few years, then a governor till he needs to be king of my almost freely taken empire.If/when my main char dies.I currently have 2 cities and 2 castles all loyal like and paying out a good amount of gold.and only war when i want to take somthing else... Looken at u Sanala xD

[RJboxer]

Originally posted by xao2099:

I am currently doing "easy mode" by taking only rebel cities and attacking castles near- by take the castle, kill the responding armies, take prisoners. wait for the price for peace to get way low or even taking enough enemy lords captive to make them pay me for peace. it's a grindfest because cities are only rebelling once in a long while but,that does give plenty of time to settle that city/castle down and get the loyalty to a high enough number to get construction going, put it this way,i wasn't even married when i took Askar now my oldest kid is 16 ,bout to be a new caravan chief for a few years, then a governor till he needs to be king of my almost freely taken empire.If/when my main char dies.I currently have 2 cities and 2 castles all loyal like and paying out a good amount of gold.and only war when i want to take somthing else... Looken at u Sanala xD

The part that IS NOT easy mode.. is "waiting " for towns to rebel. That doesnt happen for a long time in game (usually) but once it happens.. and happens regularly.. yeah It is super easy mode.

Edit: once u have 3 towns or so.. You probably have the best PARTY in the game. more than enough cash to field a second or third party (companions). Now you can take over Other NON REBEL towns.. say you are in Sargot.. u got it when it rebelled.. You can get you, and your 2 buddies.. all with stacked troops.. walk to jaculan (preferably when Vlandia is fighting battania or someone. Then attack a vlandian lord. now u siege Jaculan and your 2 companions SHOULD join (this is relatively new). As soon as u conquer it. Declare peace. (find a lord, pay him off. You should have tens of millions of denars since u have no kingdom, and dont even need garrisons if u dont want lol

This makes the game much easier and faster..

Even better, once u get about 25% of map (or whatever u feel comfortable with). Make sure you been releasing ALL ENEMY lords so u have high relation with them.. You can declare as kingdom. You now recruit some lords. And stomp the rest of the map.

You don't even have to stay NON KINGDOM whole game.. and it will still be easy.. as u long as u declare when u are strong enough.

[deece16]

Originally posted by RJboxer:

Correct. because of an EASY MODE exploit. Where you do NOT DECLARE as a kingdom <----------

1- If you take over a fief (most likely with cheat mode.. but can be done on legit). relatively easy, it's possible to have a Town and you be low level (clan 2-3-4 etc).

2- You now have a town you can use as base, to store your garbage items, to smith and get rich, to stash all your Max level troops (in garrison for future use) as you level more. etc.

3- your town now keeps growing and getting stronger ... huzzah!!!.

4- All while NEVER BEING ABLE TO BE ATTACKED. You are NOT a kingdom so no one can attack you. Ever. The only combat you will see is when U declare war on someone. (to get the NEXT fief u want). you declare war (attack a random lord of their faction)... take the fief. IMMEDIATELY sue for peace.. pay them a pittance. Spend the next year rebuilding getting stronger etc..

5- Again, can never be attacked. (super cheesy exploit, left in by devs, for some reason or another. and there are a FEW theories why.. I won't get into. Some are legit theories).

6- if you could MAKE army's while NOT being able to be attacked, and OWN fiefs, while NOT being able to be attacked.. how easy would the game be???

You could conquer all of calradia with you, your 2 bros, your sis. and the 3 wives.. 7 of you... and just troops. you could own ALL of calradia in under 20 years.. If u could make armys



So nope.. cant do it.

and that is why

I respectfully disagree at least somewhat...

1. It took time to get to tier 4. I took my time and "did my time" to get to that point. If you can't put your "clan" into an army, what exactly is the point of the clan? I mean, to have more forces is the biggest point of having a "clan". Without it, you just have other friends who's troops you simply pay for. And they are not very good friends honestly as they will not even join you (in your army) to achieve what you want despite paying entirely for their troops.

2. And you CAN be attacked. Once you decide to attack a town or castle, they can attack you. That faction's entire army can come destroy you. This has happened many times to me. This happens all the time in the game. And I'm not sure how you can say you can't be attacked. Once you attack any other faction, they will come after you. Period. You simply can't say you can't be attacked... you are wrong. If you don't believe me, simply start a new game, and attack just the villagers of any faction. You (yes you, with being in a kingdom) will be an enemy of that faction. They will attack you on site and if you have a fief or castle or town, they will attack that too. Anyone who's played this game will attest to this.

3. I refuse to cheat. I play the game because I like the game. I don't cheat in any game, ever. I'm simply stating that I have all these troops that I pay for, why can't I use them to my end, whatever end that is?

[deece16]

Originally posted by Ruffio:

You can make parties before tier 4. Having other parties before you crate your own kingdom is a good way to train steward skill on companions/family members that could be useful for govenors down the line as well.

Imho would be a bit OP if you could form armies just as a clan.

Yes, I'm aware. I've got 1,100+ hours in game. Again see above.

[RJboxer]

Originally posted by deece16:

Originally posted by RJboxer:

Correct. because of an EASY MODE exploit. Where you do NOT DECLARE as a kingdom <----------

1- If you take over a fief (most likely with cheat mode.. but can be done on legit). relatively easy, it's possible to have a Town and you be low level (clan 2-3-4 etc).

2- You now have a town you can use as base, to store your garbage items, to smith and get rich, to stash all your Max level troops (in garrison for future use) as you level more. etc.

3- your town now keeps growing and getting stronger ... huzzah!!!.

4- All while NEVER BEING ABLE TO BE ATTACKED. You are NOT a kingdom so no one can attack you. Ever. The only combat you will see is when U declare war on someone. (to get the NEXT fief u want). you declare war (attack a random lord of their faction)... take the fief. IMMEDIATELY sue for peace.. pay them a pittance. Spend the next year rebuilding getting stronger etc..

5- Again, can never be attacked. (super cheesy exploit, left in by devs, for some reason or another. and there are a FEW theories why.. I won't get into. Some are legit theories).

6- if you could MAKE army's while NOT being able to be attacked, and OWN fiefs, while NOT being able to be attacked.. how easy would the game be???

You could conquer all of calradia with you, your 2 bros, your sis. and the 3 wives.. 7 of you... and just troops. you could own ALL of calradia in under 20 years.. If u could make armys



So nope.. cant do it.

and that is why

I respectfully disagree at least somewhat...

1. It took time to get to tier 4. I took my time and "did my time" to get to that point. If you can't put your "clan" into an army, what exactly is the point of the clan? I mean, to have more forces is the biggest point of having a "clan". Without it, you just have other friends who's troops you simply pay for. And they are not very good friends honestly as they will not even join you (in your army) to achieve what you want despite paying entirely for their troops.

2. And you CAN be attacked. Once you decide to attack a town or castle, they can attack you. That faction's entire army can come destroy you. This has happened many times to me. This happens all the time in the game. And I'm not sure how you can say you can't be attacked. Once you attack any other faction, they will come after you. Period. You simply can't say you can't be attacked... you are wrong. If you don't believe me, simply start a new game, and attack just the villagers of any faction. You (yes you, with being in a kingdom) will be an enemy of that faction. They will attack you on site and if you have a fief or castle or town, they will attack that too. Anyone who's played this game will attest to this.

3. I refuse to cheat. I play the game because I like the game. I don't cheat in any game, ever. I'm simply stating that I have all these troops that I pay for, why can't I use them to my end, whatever end that is?

Well, u can disagree. The point still stands. you CAN NOT make an army while not a kingdom (or in a kingdom) due to the fact, it is EASY mode.

You say u took your time to clan tier 4. Cool, so do many people. I have taken my time once or twice as well. it does not change the fact, that you DO NOT have to take your time to get to it. Nor does it change the fact, that getting to clan tier 4.. slowly or quickly... isn't all that slow. Perhaps I'm just cranky at game currently, since my last 3 campaigns (since release) my king WILL NOT DIE. though all others have died.. in their 50s... but my lieges are all in their 70s or 80s.... no death. That means my campaigns are all way way way longer than normal (for me)... I'm in year 40 in a few of them.

So to take, let's say 3 years to hit clan tier 4. Some might say quick.. some say slow. To take 8 years to hit clan 4.. some might say quick some say slow.. to take 15 years (not even sure if u CAN take this long.. but let's pretend u can)... some might say quick some might say long.. But when I'm in a 42 year campaign currently. And we only own 20% of map because since release, your kings ALSO never seem to recruit other lotds..... And we have 8 clans, against most other people having 12-14 clans. We can't move. We can't progress. etc.. Anyway.. Your idea of taking your time to clan 4 might not be everyones idea of a LONG time. 8 years in a 42 year campaign is nothing. Especially since this campaign will take at least 10-40 more.. depending on if king dies. But even if it is a long time in your mind, that is YOUR choice. You can rush clan tier four if u want. That doesn't affect how the devs should PROGRAM army creation.

you CAN NOT be attacked. I specified above how it works. And it seems you know as well. but to sum up again.. so we are talking the same thing. And no confusion. I take a weak town, I do not declare. Huzzah. I CAN NEVER BE ATTACKED. (if it was rebels). if it was a normal faction, I pay them off. Now I can NEVER be attacked. NEVER EVER.

If, and ONLY if, I choose to NOW attack them (or someone new again)... I can be attacked ONLY BY THEM, and ONLY as long as I don't declare peace. So yeah, some goofball, might go "no kingdom", take a town.. and never get peace.. then walk over to other side of map.. do some trading, do a few quests.. then scream "hey.. what happened to my town.. it;s gone". but I doubt ANYONE would do that, even a new person on day 1. you would declare peace. and then CAN NOT be attacked. Until u decide to attack them again.

Now a SMART person might use that to their advantage. (as hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people have posted in these forums over the years). And attack seonon, Declare peace. build up. wait for battania to fight vlandia. attack a battanian lord, get war. Then attack marunath. Take it. Declare peace. build up... grow some more, get stable. Wait for battania to fight aserai.. attack a battania lord, get war. Take Dunglanys. Get peace.

This takes literal minutes. The LONG part, is waiting to "build back up" if u so choose. the easy part is: when u are ready, and ONLY when you are ready.. u attack him. Get the fief, then INSTANTLY get peace.

I have never even had any enemy even come close to ONE of my fiefs (and I've done this for a long time in a couple campaigns, and had 15+ fiefs)... let alone attack them. I just keep "stepping" forward and timing it.. and stealing all their fiefs. and they can DO NOTHING. This was with me, one party.... I eventually get super bored.. declare a kingdom, get lords and an army.. then steam roll for a few more years. get bored, and make a new campaign. but I was NEVER even close to attacked when I was NOT a kingdom.

---If I could make an army, I could have conquered the WHOLE map, in under 10 years. easily.

That is why the devs do not allow us to make armys when NOT in a kingdom. Its not a great solution, but it is what they have chosen (kind of like their solution for the influence exploit with prisoner donations.. now you can ALMOST never donate any since fiefs are always FULL... and the towns somehow end up with 3500 prisoners or WAY MORE, i've seen 12,000.. waiting for new enemy to come take them, and instantly have a new 3500 man army. its a terrible solution, but WHAT the devs have chosen).

and as to "cheat". I use the word a lot. And really I should be saying "dev command". but most forum people wont know what I am talking about. This is a single player game. If Someone (or me, or you, or anyone) wants to jack their trade to 300. DO IT!!!!! More power to them. if that is fun for them, have at it. If they want to give themselves 10million denars DO IT.. The funniest part is how many people use mods, that do way way way way more than that, and make game almost impossible to lose, then make fun of cheat moders, and say vanilla sux, so they only use mods.

No, THEY sux.. and use some cheaty mods (some people) because it makes the game baby mode lol.

So for you, if you wanna cheat do it. if u dont, do not. When I say cheat mode, i'm merely referring in some posts to someone saying "bah, influence aint no importants" etc.. "me takes over hole map by year 12". No... Impossible. you NEED influence to motivate your brain dead allies. and the game has NUMEROUS stoppers to prevent u from conquering map so soon (2+ years ago, you could.. but not for a long time). I say "yeah, on cheat.. but not on legit.. blah blah blah". Because the discussions are always about a mechanic. And a MOD, or Cheat mode.. certainly eliminates the NEED for said mechanic.

Anyway, Yeah. whole morale of my stories is, the devs made it so you CAN NOT have an army while NOT in a kingdom, because it LITERALLY, for sure, 100% makes it so you can take over the whole map very very easily. And they have stated This is NOT what they want. Nor do they want "passive income" to be high.. Which is a WHOLE different ball of wax, but those are their two main statements I remember "we don't want whole map conquered quickly, we want people to be active and NOT make massive passive income". etc

[RJboxer]

Originally posted by Sheepify:

Speaking of, has anyone managed to flip a rebellious fief as an independent post-release?

Seems they are only hostile to the owner faction now, and unless you're a merc you won't be able to engage them. Even their lords don't have the option to challenge them to a field brawl.

And if you're a merc, that fief gets voted on as regular, so you're not a viable candidate.

I agree setting up an army shouldn't be faction-locked, but Taleworlds prefers to keep as much control away from the player as possible instead of balancing things around possible mechanics, so...

I have not tried. But that would be a HUGE improvement IMO. (not being able to go solo, find a rebel, take it.. declare peace.. do it over and over.. and never lose).

Kind of makes starting much harder for new players (since being able to NOT be able to be attacked, while u get your first 2-5 towns, and 2-5 castles is a GREAT way to be super stronk before u declare. and avoid the stress of New Kingdom Survival Battles.

[Furykuiku'l]

Originally posted by RJboxer:

Originally posted by deece16:

I respectfully disagree at least somewhat...

1. It took time to get to tier 4. I took my time and "did my time" to get to that point. If you can't put your "clan" into an army, what exactly is the point of the clan? I mean, to have more forces is the biggest point of having a "clan". Without it, you just have other friends who's troops you simply pay for. And they are not very good friends honestly as they will not even join you (in your army) to achieve what you want despite paying entirely for their troops.

2. And you CAN be attacked. Once you decide to attack a town or castle, they can attack you. That faction's entire army can come destroy you. This has happened many times to me. This happens all the time in the game. And I'm not sure how you can say you can't be attacked. Once you attack any other faction, they will come after you. Period. You simply can't say you can't be attacked... you are wrong. If you don't believe me, simply start a new game, and attack just the villagers of any faction. You (yes you, with being in a kingdom) will be an enemy of that faction. They will attack you on site and if you have a fief or castle or town, they will attack that too. Anyone who's played this game will attest to this.

3. I refuse to cheat. I play the game because I like the game. I don't cheat in any game, ever. I'm simply stating that I have all these troops that I pay for, why can't I use them to my end, whatever end that is?

Well, u can disagree. The point still stands. you CAN NOT make an army while not a kingdom (or in a kingdom) due to the fact, it is EASY mode.

You say u took your time to clan tier 4. Cool, so do many people. I have taken my time once or twice as well. it does not change the fact, that you DO NOT have to take your time to get to it. Nor does it change the fact, that getting to clan tier 4.. slowly or quickly... isn't all that slow. Perhaps I'm just cranky at game currently, since my last 3 campaigns (since release) my king WILL NOT DIE. though all others have died.. in their 50s... but my lieges are all in their 70s or 80s.... no death. That means my campaigns are all way way way longer than normal (for me)... I'm in year 40 in a few of them.

So to take, let's say 3 years to hit clan tier 4. Some might say quick.. some say slow. To take 8 years to hit clan 4.. some might say quick some say slow.. to take 15 years (not even sure if u CAN take this long.. but let's pretend u can)... some might say quick some might say long.. But when I'm in a 42 year campaign currently. And we only own 20% of map because since release, your kings ALSO never seem to recruit other lotds..... And we have 8 clans, against most other people having 12-14 clans. We can't move. We can't progress. etc.. Anyway.. Your idea of taking your time to clan 4 might not be everyones idea of a LONG time. 8 years in a 42 year campaign is nothing. Especially since this campaign will take at least 10-40 more.. depending on if king dies. But even if it is a long time in your mind, that is YOUR choice. You can rush clan tier four if u want. That doesn't affect how the devs should PROGRAM army creation.

you CAN NOT be attacked. I specified above how it works. And it seems you know as well. but to sum up again.. so we are talking the same thing. And no confusion. I take a weak town, I do not declare. Huzzah. I CAN NEVER BE ATTACKED. (if it was rebels). if it was a normal faction, I pay them off. Now I can NEVER be attacked. NEVER EVER.

If, and ONLY if, I choose to NOW attack them (or someone new again)... I can be attacked ONLY BY THEM, and ONLY as long as I don't declare peace. So yeah, some goofball, might go "no kingdom", take a town.. and never get peace.. then walk over to other side of map.. do some trading, do a few quests.. then scream "hey.. what happened to my town.. it;s gone". but I doubt ANYONE would do that, even a new person on day 1. you would declare peace. and then CAN NOT be attacked. Until u decide to attack them again.

Now a SMART person might use that to their advantage. (as hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people have posted in these forums over the years). And attack seonon, Declare peace. build up. wait for battania to fight vlandia. attack a battanian lord, get war. Then attack marunath. Take it. Declare peace. build up... grow some more, get stable. Wait for battania to fight aserai.. attack a battania lord, get war. Take Dunglanys. Get peace.

This takes literal minutes. The LONG part, is waiting to "build back up" if u so choose. the easy part is: when u are ready, and ONLY when you are ready.. u attack him. Get the fief, then INSTANTLY get peace.

I have never even had any enemy even come close to ONE of my fiefs (and I've done this for a long time in a couple campaigns, and had 15+ fiefs)... let alone attack them. I just keep "stepping" forward and timing it.. and stealing all their fiefs. and they can DO NOTHING. This was with me, one party.... I eventually get super bored.. declare a kingdom, get lords and an army.. then steam roll for a few more years. get bored, and make a new campaign. but I was NEVER even close to attacked when I was NOT a kingdom.

---If I could make an army, I could have conquered the WHOLE map, in under 10 years. easily.

That is why the devs do not allow us to make armys when NOT in a kingdom. Its not a great solution, but it is what they have chosen (kind of like their solution for the influence exploit with prisoner donations.. now you can ALMOST never donate any since fiefs are always FULL... and the towns somehow end up with 3500 prisoners or WAY MORE, i've seen 12,000.. waiting for new enemy to come take them, and instantly have a new 3500 man army. its a terrible solution, but WHAT the devs have chosen).

and as to "cheat". I use the word a lot. And really I should be saying "dev command". but most forum people wont know what I am talking about. This is a single player game. If Someone (or me, or you, or anyone) wants to jack their trade to 300. DO IT!!!!! More power to them. if that is fun for them, have at it. If they want to give themselves 10million denars DO IT.. The funniest part is how many people use mods, that do way way way way more than that, and make game almost impossible to lose, then make fun of cheat moders, and say vanilla sux, so they only use mods.

No, THEY sux.. and use some cheaty mods (some people) because it makes the game baby mode lol.

So for you, if you wanna cheat do it. if u dont, do not. When I say cheat mode, i'm merely referring in some posts to someone saying "bah, influence aint no importants" etc.. "me takes over hole map by year 12". No... Impossible. you NEED influence to motivate your brain dead allies. and the game has NUMEROUS stoppers to prevent u from conquering map so soon (2+ years ago, you could.. but not for a long time). I say "yeah, on cheat.. but not on legit.. blah blah blah". Because the discussions are always about a mechanic. And a MOD, or Cheat mode.. certainly eliminates the NEED for said mechanic.

Anyway, Yeah. whole morale of my stories is, the devs made it so you CAN NOT have an army while NOT in a kingdom, because it LITERALLY, for sure, 100% makes it so you can take over the whole map very very easily. And they have stated This is NOT what they want. Nor do they want "passive income" to be high.. Which is a WHOLE different ball of wax, but those are their two main statements I remember "we don't want whole map conquered quickly, we want people to be active and NOT make massive passive income". etc

have you tried murdering them just wait till they are taken prisoner then go spring them but make sure they dont make it out of said prison during the breakout if your liked by the other lords and have the highest influence amount in the kingdom you will get voted as the new ruler i have taken over a faction doing this hell i even managed to take one ruler out with a fluke arrow shot in a massive battle was not planning to at the time but the kill feed mentioned he died and i had killed him his poor son was already dead and his only daughter that could of taken the throne was already my wife so in the election for rulership i got the throne