Overal the best units / army?

[Xequilibrium]

Topic: which faction has the strongest / best roster of u combine all units from 1 faction only?

[kristianjakob]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Xequilibrium:

Ursprungligen skrivet av kristianjakob:

For any battle that does not involve the player it doesnt matter. Only the type of unit and level does.

As for the best. Battania ofcourse:)

True but i ment purely who has the best army without player interuption

The one who has the most men with the highest average level!

Edit. Apart from that having a higher share of cavalry is probably more likely than not to favor an npc army.

[Darklight]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Xequilibrium:

Not that i want the Aserai to win per se but why is no one mentioning the Aserai? They also have a super wel rounded roster and their archers and horses are superior to The empire imo.

Primarily because I don't think the Aserai's roster is better. There are some degrees where they have some edge, others where that's not the case. Overall I think the Empire's roster is just better personally. Doesn't mean I'm right, just what I think.

[Action Man]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Xequilibrium:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Darklight:

If you are asking who has the best well rounded roster, than that would 100% have to go to the Empire. They have pretty much everything and while they aren't really the best of the best, they are still good in their respective roles.

While normally factions would excel at one thing and lack in others, they don't really excel in anything but don't lack in anything either.

Not that i want the Aserai to win per se but why is no one mentioning the Aserai? They also have a super wel rounded roster and their archers and horses are superior to The empire imo.

Not mentioned earlier, but the Empire has advantage of location. They're centrally located, so it's easy to access Empire troops. The Empire also has the most fiefs of its culture, making the troops faster to get. Nothing against Aserai, but it's harder to get to. They only have two entry points to their territory, and they're on opposite sides of the map. I think they also have a focus on throwing weapons, but they don't use them well. Their cavalry tries to act like horse archers.

[desaix]

It will vary.

Imperial: Most well-rounded. They're the most versatile force, and their top-tier troops are some of the best in the game, but lower-tier soldiers can suffer a bit (lower tier are especially vulnerable to cavalry, and while generally well-armored, they have weak spots). They're the most expensive (both in terms of financial cost and in terms of the number of lower-tier soldiers who die on their way to the top tiers). They're generally "better" overall than most other forces, but the "best group" of another culture will often be superior (for example, Fian Archers are better than any archer that the Imperials can field), and the units are so specialized they can get themselves into difficult situations (for example, their light infantry will be slaughtered by any cavalry charge, because they effectively have no way to fight cavalry). If you're going mono-culture, they have the fewest gaps in terms of ability and strength, but you'd better blend up your units and micro-manage tactics to avoid letting your units get into bat situations.

Battanians: As mentioned, they have the best archers in the game... of the unmounted variety. Their 5th tier archers are better than some sixth-tier. Their infantry is superior in the field. However, their infantry performs poorly when defending as a garrison, and their cavalry is severely outmatched by every other culture's cavalry force.

Vlandia: Best heavy cavalry in the game, but arguably the weakest light cavalry, and no horse archers -- no archers at all, in fact, outside of their crossbowmen. The crossbows make for excellent garrison archers, but tend to suffer on the field. They seem geared to fighting with and against heavy cavalry, as even their infantry forces are better equipped for fighting against hostile cavalry forces rather than against other infantry.

Aserai: Like Imperial, they're good all-arounders, but they're not as good at being all-arounders as the Imps. They have a good, though unremarkable, light infantry, perhaps the second or third best archers in the game, and a decent cavalry including some horse archers... but they're not as good at it as any of the "best." Their archers aren't as good as the Battanians, their cavalry is decent but tends to lose against either the Imperial or the Vlandian equivalents for lancers, or the Khuzait or the Imperials when it comes to horse archers, Their light infantry is pretty good, but their heavy infantry is sort of the opposite of the Battanians -- good in sieges and garrisons, but weak in the field. However, each individual soldier tends to be a better all-arounder than each individual Imperial soldier -- for example, Imperial infantry have no ranged option, while the Aserai infantry are also equipped with the best throwing weapons in the game.

Khuzait: Best horse archers in the game. Third best heavy cavalry (after Vlandia and Sturgia). Best light cavalry. Worst infantry, period. I had to look up what their infantry forces were like, just now, because they are so unremarkable I couldn't even remember if they had any. Apparently, their infantry is good at defending against cavalry, but beyond that I can't think of any use for them.

Sturgians: ...okay, this one's tough. They have a good shock cavalry (though the Vlandians are far better), and a decent heavy infantry, but otherwise... slow, expensive, and unremarkable. Best axemen, I guess? Though I tend to find axemen aren't all that great either in the field or during sieges -- they're best one-on-one -- so... I dunno.

Other options:
Use a mod like My Little Warband or Troop Editor to make your own troop tree, which can be as good. as bad, or as balanced as you want.

[kristianjakob]

Way too much overthinking;)

There are no “good” or “bad” units in stricktly npc vc. npc or autocalc battles.
Whether it is Kurzsit or imperial infantry it is all the same.

As for the player party/culture… That really shouldnt be much of mystery by this point in time.

[lar unuruur]

overall, most balanced army units come from empire. i do not know what is there to argue about even. empire has answer to any situation, xbows/archers most obvious example. plus most of their units are above average, with archers lagging behind other types.

another thing is what is most engaging, interesting... for that i say more specialized armies like sturgian or khuzait and battanians.

[Xequilibrium]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Darklight:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Xequilibrium:

Not that i want the Aserai to win per se but why is no one mentioning the Aserai? They also have a super wel rounded roster and their archers and horses are superior to The empire imo.

Primarily because I don't think the Aserai's roster is better. There are some degrees where they have some edge, others where that's not the case. Overall I think the Empire's roster is just better personally. Doesn't mean I'm right, just what I think.

i tried custom battles like 100 Aserai master vs 100 palatine guards, 100 Elite faris vs 100 elite cataphract and found out the following:

- Aserai wins always if it comes to infantry or footarchers
- Empire won (strangely enough) with cav and horse archers

Then i test 400 vs 400 with only every top tier unit from both factions and 25/25/25/25 in units.

Aserai won 4 and imperials 1.

So based on my tests its seems that the imperials only win when they have alllotttt of cav and Aserai overal has the better units. That's also the reasons why the southern empire mostly looses to them.

[Xequilibrium]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Action Man:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Xequilibrium:

Not that i want the Aserai to win per se but why is no one mentioning the Aserai? They also have a super wel rounded roster and their archers and horses are superior to The empire imo.

Not mentioned earlier, but the Empire has advantage of location. They're centrally located, so it's easy to access Empire troops. The Empire also has the most fiefs of its culture, making the troops faster to get. Nothing against Aserai, but it's harder to get to. They only have two entry points to their territory, and they're on opposite sides of the map. I think they also have a focus on throwing weapons, but they don't use them well. Their cavalry tries to act like horse archers.

Their location is worse then Aserai. Aserai is extremly defendable and rarely looses towns (beside huns fulq). the empire has more towns and easier recruiting but they have waaaay more enemies on their borders. Southern empire gets nearly always stomped by the Aserai (also without player intervention).

Also the faris will use them well enough. The jereeds just melt armor and shields. If they are emptied they are also very good at melee fighting. Their horses are the quickest ingame which makes their collision damage very high.

[Xequilibrium]

Ursprungligen skrivet av desaix:

It will vary.

Imperial: Most well-rounded. They're the most versatile force, and their top-tier troops are some of the best in the game, but lower-tier soldiers can suffer a bit (lower tier are especially vulnerable to cavalry, and while generally well-armored, they have weak spots). They're the most expensive (both in terms of financial cost and in terms of the number of lower-tier soldiers who die on their way to the top tiers). They're generally "better" overall than most other forces, but the "best group" of another culture will often be superior (for example, Fian Archers are better than any archer that the Imperials can field), and the units are so specialized they can get themselves into difficult situations (for example, their light infantry will be slaughtered by any cavalry charge, because they effectively have no way to fight cavalry). If you're going mono-culture, they have the fewest gaps in terms of ability and strength, but you'd better blend up your units and micro-manage tactics to avoid letting your units get into bat situations.

Battanians: As mentioned, they have the best archers in the game... of the unmounted variety. Their 5th tier archers are better than some sixth-tier. Their infantry is superior in the field. However, their infantry performs poorly when defending as a garrison, and their cavalry is severely outmatched by every other culture's cavalry force.

Vlandia: Best heavy cavalry in the game, but arguably the weakest light cavalry, and no horse archers -- no archers at all, in fact, outside of their crossbowmen. The crossbows make for excellent garrison archers, but tend to suffer on the field. They seem geared to fighting with and against heavy cavalry, as even their infantry forces are better equipped for fighting against hostile cavalry forces rather than against other infantry.

Aserai: Like Imperial, they're good all-arounders, but they're not as good at being all-arounders as the Imps. They have a good, though unremarkable, light infantry, perhaps the second or third best archers in the game, and a decent cavalry including some horse archers... but they're not as good at it as any of the "best." Their archers aren't as good as the Battanians, their cavalry is decent but tends to lose against either the Imperial or the Vlandian equivalents for lancers, or the Khuzait or the Imperials when it comes to horse archers, Their light infantry is pretty good, but their heavy infantry is sort of the opposite of the Battanians -- good in sieges and garrisons, but weak in the field. However, each individual soldier tends to be a better all-arounder than each individual Imperial soldier -- for example, Imperial infantry have no ranged option, while the Aserai infantry are also equipped with the best throwing weapons in the game.

Khuzait: Best horse archers in the game. Third best heavy cavalry (after Vlandia and Sturgia). Best light cavalry. Worst infantry, period. I had to look up what their infantry forces were like, just now, because they are so unremarkable I couldn't even remember if they had any. Apparently, their infantry is good at defending against cavalry, but beyond that I can't think of any use for them.

Sturgians: ...okay, this one's tough. They have a good shock cavalry (though the Vlandians are far better), and a decent heavy infantry, but otherwise... slow, expensive, and unremarkable. Best axemen, I guess? Though I tend to find axemen aren't all that great either in the field or during sieges -- they're best one-on-one -- so... I dunno.

Other options:
Use a mod like My Little Warband or Troop Editor to make your own troop tree, which can be as good. as bad, or as balanced as you want.

i agree with you on 90%. But i think the imperial cataphracs are better then banner knights.

Als the Aserai veteran infantry wins from legionnairies one if they go one on one tho :)

[Rhapsody]

Empire has variety and flexibility, but only cataphracts are top tier really. Menavliaton are good, but still replaceable by other polearm infantry, and everything else is even more replaceable or outright inferior. But if you're going to play for the imperial side of things, it should be a solid pick.

Khuzaits are really strong because you only need horse archers and some lancers lol. By the time you are fighting realm against realm, your allies will usually bring enough infantry of whatever composition to fill the gaps in sieges, so you can focus on strategic and tactical mobility to eat up your rivals one party at a time in the open wields. It's terrific and has no real weaknesses.

Aserai are almost as good, especially if you actually play for that faction as well. But later in the game it can be a hassle to recruit their troops because they are all far in the south and the closest settlements are heavily levied already. They are more flexible than khuzaits too. So I guess here what matters most is the party's surgeon, so you can minimize losses and keep the troops available. You can go anywhere and everywhere then.

Vlandian troops are probably the best in how balanced they are. Their composition has some weaknesses but they generally make up for them with strong offense. Sharpshooter bolts can take out rampaging cavalry and infantry formations alike, but rough terrain can put Vlandia at disadvantage sometimes. Not too difficult to recruit in late game, but not easy either.

Battania is great for players who want to employ underhanded tactics, weaving attacking and withdrawing together... You'll need skilled commander and captains to make the most out of that, so it's not always feasible early on. The faction bonus supports this playstyle perfectly.

Sturgia, what's that? ...You mean the Nords? They are not in the game yet, silly.

If we're taking the faction/culture bonus as well as joining the faction officially into account, I'd rank them something like this:

1. Khuzait
   
2. Nords (predicted - when they are added)
   
3. Aserai / Vlandia
   
4. Battania / Empire

[Xequilibrium]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Rhapsody:

Empire has variety and flexibility, but only cataphracts are top tier really. Menavliaton are good, but still replaceable by other polearm infantry, and everything else is even more replaceable or outright inferior. But if you're going to play for the imperial side of things, it should be a solid pick.

Khuzaits are really strong because you only need horse archers and some lancers lol. By the time you are fighting realm against realm, your allies will usually bring enough infantry of whatever composition to fill the gaps in sieges, so you can focus on strategic and tactical mobility to eat up your rivals one party at a time in the open wields. It's terrific and has no real weaknesses.

Aserai are almost as good, especially if you actually play for that faction as well. But later in the game it can be a hassle to recruit their troops because they are all far in the south and the closest settlements are heavily levied already. They are more flexible than khuzaits too. So I guess here what matters most is the party's surgeon, so you can minimize losses and keep the troops available. You can go anywhere and everywhere then.

Vlandian troops are probably the best in how balanced they are. Their composition has some weaknesses but they generally make up for them with strong offense. Sharpshooter bolts can take out rampaging cavalry and infantry formations alike, but rough terrain can put Vlandia at disadvantage sometimes. Not too difficult to recruit in late game, but not easy either.

Battania is great for players who want to employ underhanded tactics, weaving attacking and withdrawing together... You'll need skilled commander and captains to make the most out of that, so it's not always feasible early on. The faction bonus supports this playstyle perfectly.

Sturgia, what's that? ...You mean the Nords? They are not in the game yet, silly.

If we're taking the faction/culture bonus as well as joining the faction officially into account, I'd rank them something like this:

1. Khuzait
   
2. Nords (predicted - when they are added)
   
3. Aserai / Vlandia
   
4. Battania / Empire

You forgot to put Sturgia on 5.

I think Vlandia and Aserai should go to spot 2 tho. western empire might go to 3 .

[Action Man]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Xequilibrium:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Action Man:

Not mentioned earlier, but the Empire has advantage of location. They're centrally located, so it's easy to access Empire troops. The Empire also has the most fiefs of its culture, making the troops faster to get. Nothing against Aserai, but it's harder to get to. They only have two entry points to their territory, and they're on opposite sides of the map. I think they also have a focus on throwing weapons, but they don't use them well. Their cavalry tries to act like horse archers.

Their location is worse then Aserai. Aserai is extremly defendable and rarely looses towns (beside huns fulq). the empire has more towns and easier recruiting but they have waaaay more enemies on their borders. Southern empire gets nearly always stomped by the Aserai (also without player intervention).

Also the faris will use them well enough. The jereeds just melt armor and shields. If they are emptied they are also very good at melee fighting. Their horses are the quickest ingame which makes their collision damage very high.

Everyone's games will vary. I've had runs where the Aserai got stomped, and others where they held their own, and others where they dominated.

If the Aserai find themselves in wars on both sides of their territory, it's bad news for them, because it's difficult to defend both. If you decide you want only Aserai troops in your army, you will always have to go back to their territory to recruit. The Empire's location lets you reach it from pretty much anywhere on the map without too much difficulty, and there are way more settlements to get recruits from.

You can run all the simulations you want, but as others have said, once you bring the player into it, all those simulations will be tossed out of the window.

[lurkathon]

"the best" is debatable, I'd go with empire simply because you can recruit from more villages/towns, and never have to travel right across the map for it.

[Darklight]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Xequilibrium:

i tried custom battles like 100 Aserai master vs 100 palatine guards, 100 Elite faris vs 100 elite cataphract and found out the following:

- Aserai wins always if it comes to infantry or footarchers
- Empire won (strangely enough) with cav and horse archers

Then i test 400 vs 400 with only every top tier unit from both factions and 25/25/25/25 in units.

Aserai won 4 and imperials 1.

So based on my tests its seems that the imperials only win when they have alllotttt of cav and Aserai overal has the better units. That's also the reasons why the southern empire mostly looses to them.

The Aserai always get destroyed in my games, either by the Empire or Vlandia. Not that it matters much in an auto-battler. How many times did you run this test to see how many different results you got. How many times did you include non-elite units that are usually the bulk of people's armies, especially AI.

[Ruffio]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Darklight:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Xequilibrium:

i tried custom battles like 100 Aserai master vs 100 palatine guards, 100 Elite faris vs 100 elite cataphract and found out the following:

- Aserai wins always if it comes to infantry or footarchers
- Empire won (strangely enough) with cav and horse archers

Then i test 400 vs 400 with only every top tier unit from both factions and 25/25/25/25 in units.

Aserai won 4 and imperials 1.

So based on my tests its seems that the imperials only win when they have alllotttt of cav and Aserai overal has the better units. That's also the reasons why the southern empire mostly looses to them.

The Aserai always get destroyed in my games, either by the Empire or Vlandia. Not that it matters much in an auto-battler. How many times did you run this test to see how many different results you got. How many times did you include non-elite units that are usually the bulk of people's armies, especially AI.

Aserai suffer from a long stretched land and you their armies does a lot of walking back and forth being nibbled in both end.