The new DLC appears to include one new culture and boats. What's the price?

[Imperial Patriot]

So, the map is extended, and there’s one added culture along with boats. To me, whatever. I hope there’s more to it, but if that’s all, it seems underwhelming. If that’s the case, let’s hope the price is fair and not something like $30.

[Monkey]

Adding naval combat adds a whole new dimenstion to the game id say thats worth the price of a major expansion. I just have a gut feeling that its not going to be very usefull and will feel as another hollow mechanic waiting to be fleshed out just like the rest of the game.

[Imperial Patriot]

Originally posted by Monkey:

Adding naval combat adds a whole new dimenstion to the game id say thats worth the price of a major expansion. I just have a gut feeling that its not going to be very usefull and will feel as another hollow mechanic waiting to be fleshed out just like the rest of the game.

I disagree- one culture and boats don’t warrant half the price of a full game, in my opinion. Maybe $9.99 or $14.99 at most. But yeah, I agree- it’s probably going to feel hollow.

That said, it will expand what modders can do, so I guess that’s a plus. They’re also updating the base game with new features, like events, which might make it easier for modders to integrate events into the game and make the events mod redundant. I don’t know- I was just expecting more. Maybe three new factions and a complete diplomacy overhaul, which I hope they plan on fixing.

I’m underwhelmed, but I’ll wait and see.

[Innuendos]

Originally posted by Imperial Patriot:

Originally posted by Monkey:

Adding naval combat adds a whole new dimenstion to the game id say thats worth the price of a major expansion. I just have a gut feeling that its not going to be very usefull and will feel as another hollow mechanic waiting to be fleshed out just like the rest of the game.

I disagree- one culture and boats don’t warrant half the price of a full game, in my opinion. Maybe $9.99 or $14.99 at most. But yeah, I agree- it’s probably going to feel hollow.

That said, it will expand what modders can do, so I guess that’s a plus. They’re also updating the base game with new features, like events, which might make it easier for modders to integrate events into the game and make the events mod redundant. I don’t know- I was just expecting more. Maybe three new factions and a complete diplomacy overhaul, which I hope they plan on fixing.

I’m underwhelmed, but I’ll wait and see.

with the history with not unlocking things modders want to be able to mod, i highly doubt it will be easier for modders, who will essentially, get all their previous worked demolished.

id hold off on saying anything about modders... as there arent many left, and this might make it harder to mod, if they lock more things... meaning even less modders

[Imperial Patriot]

Originally posted by Innuendos:

Originally posted by Imperial Patriot:

I disagree- one culture and boats don’t warrant half the price of a full game, in my opinion. Maybe $9.99 or $14.99 at most. But yeah, I agree- it’s probably going to feel hollow.

That said, it will expand what modders can do, so I guess that’s a plus. They’re also updating the base game with new features, like events, which might make it easier for modders to integrate events into the game and make the events mod redundant. I don’t know- I was just expecting more. Maybe three new factions and a complete diplomacy overhaul, which I hope they plan on fixing.

I’m underwhelmed, but I’ll wait and see.

with the history with not unlocking things modders want to be able to mod, i highly doubt it will be easier for modders, who will essentially, get all their previous worked demolished.

id hold off on saying anything about modders... as there arent many left, and this might make it harder to mod, if they lock more things... meaning even less modders

Don't scare me like that. Don’t make me worry that Dell'Arte Della Guerra might be abandoned because TW is locking the tools modders need. I’ve been waiting years for that mod and am super excited.

[Khonco]

probably 30 bucks and your main game will never be finished LOL. WHERES THE FEAST???

[Imperial Patriot]

Originally posted by Kherbyne:

probably 30 bucks and your main game will never be finished LOL. WHERES THE FEAST???

Half the price of a game for 1 culture and boats? That would be insulting. But yeah, they said they are going to add updates to the base game going forward.

[Ourg]

new culture copy pasta from sturgia

[Killersnipe]

Why is everyone hating on boats? Boats and naval traversal was sorely lacking from the base game... so much so that modders had to make a work around early on to be able to have sea traversal. Now we get an actual real fix from the devs as well as a fleshed out naval combat system. How is that a small thing? It's literally one of the most mechanically significant changes they can make to base game combat and map traversal. We get it, you wanted a diplomacy overhaul. Well, so what? Doesn't mean you have to dis the significance of this dlc. Also, why would you expect 3 new factions in one dlc when the base game only has 6 cultures (8 factions if you count three flavors of the same Empire faction)? I think your expectations are a bit unrealistic. Also, lack of factions is literally the easiest thing to fix with mods...

[Innuendos]

Originally posted by Killersnipe:

Why is everyone hating on boats? Boats and naval traversal was sorely lacking from the base game... so much so that modders had to make a work around early on to be able to have sea traversal. Now we get an actual real fix from the devs as well as a fleshed out naval combat system. How is that a small thing? It's literally one of the most mechanically significant changes they can make to base game combat and map traversal. We get it, you wanted a diplomacy overhaul. Well, so what? Doesn't mean you have to dis the significance of this dlc. Also, why would you expect 3 new factions in one dlc when the base game only has 6 cultures (8 factions if you count three flavors of the same Empire faction)? I think your expectations are a bit unrealistic. Also, lack of factions is literally the easiest thing to fix with mods...

why expect 3 new factions? because they are already listed as factions in the game. you can open the game, and open the encyclopedia, and look for yourself. why wouldnt people expect them to put them in? they are already in the game. just... do it.

why are people hating on boats? dont see too much of that. outside of people who dont think the gameplay will be anything close to what was shown in the announcement trailer. (which i am one of) and that isnt really hating on boats, its more, debating if the devs are even capable of doing it.

"now we get an actual real fix from the devs as well as a fleshed out naval combat system"... yaaaaaaaaa id hold off on that statement for another 3 months. you may want to edit parts of that out later on :)

specifically 'actual real fix' and 'fleshed out'

[Killersnipe]

Originally posted by Innuendos:

why are people hating on boats? dont see too much of that. outside of people who dont think the gameplay will be anything close to what was shown in the announcement trailer. (which i am one of) and that isnt really hating on boats, its more, debating if the devs are even capable of doing it.

"now we get an actual real fix from the devs as well as a fleshed out naval combat system"... yaaaaaaaaa id hold off on that statement for another 3 months. you may want to edit parts of that out later on :)

specifically 'actual real fix' and 'fleshed out'

Well maybe I'm a M&B noob who's not been here from the days of Warband but coming from Total War, which I've been playing since the very first entry, most of the features in M&B seem to basically just be taking Total War and putting it in 3rd person mode. Since Total War had naval combat since Rome II, I assume the naval combat in this game will be very similar but in 3rd person rather than overhead view. That's still a significant system to add, I mean even Total War has taken it out because it was apparently "too much extra work', so it's nice that the dev team on this game put in the time to add naval warfare to their M&B game

[Innuendos]

Originally posted by Killersnipe:

Originally posted by Innuendos:

why are people hating on boats? dont see too much of that. outside of people who dont think the gameplay will be anything close to what was shown in the announcement trailer. (which i am one of) and that isnt really hating on boats, its more, debating if the devs are even capable of doing it.

"now we get an actual real fix from the devs as well as a fleshed out naval combat system"... yaaaaaaaaa id hold off on that statement for another 3 months. you may want to edit parts of that out later on :)

specifically 'actual real fix' and 'fleshed out'

Well maybe I'm a M&B noob who's not been here from the days of Warband but coming from Total War, which I've been playing since the very first entry, most of the features in M&B seem to basically just be taking Total War and putting it in 3rd person mode. Since Total War had naval combat since Rome II, I assume the naval combat in this game will be very similar but in 3rd person rather than overhead view. That's still a significant system to add, I mean even Total War has taken it out because it was apparently "too much extra work', so it's nice that the dev team on this game put in the time to add naval warfare to their M&B game

nice? again... we shall see.

i have a very..very...strong feeling. that their naval battles. are going to be 2 static boats, with 2-4 planks of wood /ramps connecting them with 50-100 soilders each pending the boat.... with the soilders just 1v1'n or 2-3v2-3 if the planks are wide enough and i guess falling into the water, and when one side over whelms, then they fight on the deck resembling more of a civilian in town fight. but just with a smaller area. all of the enviornmental placement and advantages and stuff of field battles are thrown out of the window, and it just is literally, who has thrown weapons. who has archers. who has more of them. who has shields. who has higher tier soilders with more armor.....etc. deciding who wins or not.

could i be wrong? i could be. they could have cannons, and ropes swinging landing troops ontop of troops, fire cocktails being throw and setting the boat on fire lowering the boats HP to sink, and areas of the boat on fire to kill high tier troops waiting to fight or archers in the back, and ramming, manually driven boats, i mean i could go on with it ... and all kinds of ♥♥♥♥. and ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, if they had all these things... it would blow people away.

but from what i have seen from these devs... i aint holding my breath on that and my expectations are exactly what i said earlier.

2 static, unmoving boats with 50-100 soilders on them. 2-4 ramps connecting each boat, and whoever has more higher tier troops/more archers, wins.


if that is the case... we already have that with castle walls when they are broken realistically, and at a larger scale, with other things going on at the same time.

thats just me tho

[Killersnipe]

Originally posted by Innuendos:

i have a very..very...strong feeling. that their naval battles. are going to be 2 static boats, with 2-4 planks of wood /ramps connecting them with 50-100 soilders each pending the boat.... with the soilders just 1v1'n or 2-3v2-3 if the planks are wide enough and i guess falling into the water, and when one side over whelms, then they fight on the deck resembling more of a civilian in town fight. but just with a smaller area. all of the enviornmental placement and advantages and stuff of field battles are thrown out of the window, and it just is literally, who has thrown weapons. who has archers. who has more of them. who has shields. who has higher tier soilders with more armor.....etc. deciding who wins or not.

I mean, this is basically how ancient naval warfare went down. Either ramming and sinking ships, boarding and fighting on deck, or some arrow/siege equipment targeting from abroad. This dlc claims they will have all three. And if you know that boarding will be about brute strength then you can put heavy armored units on your boarding vessel who do better in close quarters combat.

I remember reading about the naval wars between Greece and Persia during the Persian Wars. Basically, the Egyptian navy ships were considered some of the deadliest of the Persian fleet because they had extremely heavy infantry that were deadly boarding parties. The other renowned Persian vessels were those of the Phoenicians who were renowned sailors and good at outmaneuvering and ramming tactics. In the Battle of Salamis the Greeks found a way to nullify both of these. They sailed into the bay of Salamis which had two entrances. The Persians sent their heavy Egyptian boarding parties to the far exit of the Bay to guard the escape route and then sent the rest of their fleet into the bay from the side the Greeks went in. The Greeks however, had stationed themselves in ramming position in the narrow passage to the bay and broadsided all the Persian vessels which were unable to maneuver in the narrow passage. This nullified the advantage of the Phoenicians while the expert Egyptian boarding marines were sitting idly by on the far side of the bay with no one to fight. The Persian fleet was utterly destroyed and the remaining ships were forced to flee back to Persia in what is considered one of the greatest naval victories in history, since the Greeks had been heavily outnumbered 4/1 in ships.

Moral of the story: use your heavy boarding parties and ramming ships effectively or you will lose the battle

[Darklight]

It's more than just one new faction and boats. That being said, consumers decide value. That DLC sounds worth $30 to me. We'll see what the sale numbers are in the end.

[Ruffio]

Originally posted by Darklight:

It's more than just one new faction and boats. That being said, consumers decide value. That DLC sounds worth $30 to me. We'll see what the sale numbers are in the end.

Imho the biggest value lies in the dlc expand the current game world. It's not just some stand alone thing. Adding a lot of replay value as whole that.

[Innuendos]

Originally posted by Killersnipe:

Originally posted by Innuendos:

i have a very..very...strong feeling. that their naval battles. are going to be 2 static boats, with 2-4 planks of wood /ramps connecting them with 50-100 soilders each pending the boat.... with the soilders just 1v1'n or 2-3v2-3 if the planks are wide enough and i guess falling into the water, and when one side over whelms, then they fight on the deck resembling more of a civilian in town fight. but just with a smaller area. all of the enviornmental placement and advantages and stuff of field battles are thrown out of the window, and it just is literally, who has thrown weapons. who has archers. who has more of them. who has shields. who has higher tier soilders with more armor.....etc. deciding who wins or not.

I mean, this is basically how ancient naval warfare went down. Either ramming and sinking ships, boarding and fighting on deck, or some arrow/siege equipment targeting from abroad. This dlc claims they will have all three. And if you know that boarding will be about brute strength then you can put heavy armored units on your boarding vessel who do better in close quarters combat.

I remember reading about the naval wars between Greece and Persia during the Persian Wars. Basically, the Egyptian navy ships were considered some of the deadliest of the Persian fleet because they had extremely heavy infantry that were deadly boarding parties. The other renowned Persian vessels were those of the Phoenicians who were renowned sailors and good at outmaneuvering and ramming tactics. In the Battle of Salamis the Greeks found a way to nullify both of these. They sailed into the bay of Salamis which had two entrances. The Persians sent their heavy Egyptian boarding parties to the far exit of the Bay to guard the escape route and then sent the rest of their fleet into the bay from the side the Greeks went in. The Greeks however, had stationed themselves in ramming position in the narrow passage to the bay and broadsided all the Persian vessels which were unable to maneuver in the narrow passage. This nullified the advantage of the Phoenicians while the expert Egyptian boarding marines were sitting idly by on the far side of the bay with no one to fight. The Persian fleet was utterly destroyed and the remaining ships were forced to flee back to Persia in what is considered one of the greatest naval victories in history, since the Greeks had been heavily outnumbered 4/1 in ships.

Moral of the story: use your heavy boarding parties and ramming ships effectively or you will lose the battle

yup. zero disagreements here.