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config.cheat_mode 1
campaign.start_world_war
config.cheat_mode 0
which sets everyone at war with eachother. They wont be at war permanently but its enough to get things going and end pacifism for good
The AI is waiting for "YOU THE PLAYER" to decide where you will be, so they can decide if they should "move this way or that way" etc.
The AI is coded to KNOW you are a big factor... and if u are NOT in a faction.. they don't wanna commit to too many risky things.
and sadly, this has caused campaigns from MANY people to go 1-5 years with ZERO wars, in the whole world.. No one fights at all. And even worse, u might not be able to join anyone as a merc, since no one "needs mercs'.
Summary: be a vassal.
if you are.. there will be wars.. sooner rather than later
But that was a year ago.
Im sorry but those are false assumptions. I got curious to find out how it actually works and browsed the Taleworlds.Campaignsystem.dll to get some clues. The decision of declaring a war roughly is made up by a mixture of:
- Total strength calculated by number of clans (Mercenaries dont count), clan tiers. party count/size and number of fiefs (Towns count double to castles)
- The wealth and tier of the clan that came up with the idea
- Whether or not the leader of the faction came up with the idea
- The total wealth of both faction also including town and castle prosperity
- The average distance between friendly and hostile fiefs.
- Whether or not tribute is paid (from earlier wars)
- Relation between clan leaders
- Duration since last war
- Valor and mercy traits of the leader
Not in that order btw and i really dont feel like doing the math here to find out which factors are the most heaviest as the calculations are pretty complex but they dont work at all like you said :D I think the most important factors are the location on the map to each other, the overall strength advantage and the amount of tribute paid. Again i really just did a quick overview so dont nail me down on the priorities but those are for sure the factors and none are directly related to the player.
I think there is just this really small chance that everything is to balanced early on but after the first wars which change all of the factors it feels kinda impossible that it happens again so i stand with my point to just get things rolling with the total war command or well.. start making trouble the legit way xd
And I can tell you regardless of what MAKES the game declare war... there is something going on,, where it bugs out.
I would be a bajillion dollars it is BASED on the AI waiting for the player.
why????
because this "no war" thing popped up about 8-10 months ago. and it was the HOT topic back then. So people were trouble shooting it.
At the time, it ONLY happened to me when I played sturgia. So I said "Hmmm, when I play sturgia and SLOW PLAY IT (i.e. don't rush and get vassal, then kingdom etc.. ASAP) It happens". It is probably a sturgia thing
Someone else chimed in. I wasn't sturgia. But also wasn't a vassal. I then did a few more tests, and NOTICED that when I was a merc. (let us pretend khuzait). Vlandia and battania did whatever they wanted. But the EAST of the map kind of waited for me to "do something" before they committed to wars and movement.
I then tried my "ok it's now sturgia, lemme SLOW PLAY" theory.. and TWICE in a row, I had NO wars. (actually there were a COUPLE early wars.. from when game starts).. but by about year 2... NO ONE went to war. No matter what I did.
I then joined Northern. AND INSTANTLY (like we are talking 1-2 days).. three other factions declared war on each other.
So let's sum up.
I believe your "research" on the .dll" Though I am interested how it was "that easy" for you to translate, when it took coders weeks if not MONTHS to try and figure out the CODE on what is used in granting a fief... But you "took a peek at .dll" and now know all the stuff the game considers.
I doubt it.. but I will BELIEVE you. because I don't know much about coding.
I will then counter with "but". Because as Bannerlordperks.com guy proved the Code is very 'random" throughout the game. and often he can't figure out if this perk works, if it didn't, what that line of code referred to.. etc". he LITERALLY writes those in his descriptions.
And he is a GREAT decompiler.
How do we know? Taleworlds LITERALLY in patch notes would say "if u wanna know what perks are working and implemented go to bannerlordperks.com" And this dude is not a TW employee. he also would correct code for them.. and miraculously next patch they would use his corrections to fix a perk.
So....... to me. I will believe u (though find it unlikely) that your reading of the .dll is correct.
I will also state that IF IT IS CORRECT, then there is "more to it than that".
And conclude with IT IS A BUG. (so maybe the code doesn't even matter, as another line of code is causing the issue).... BUT. I guarantee the FOUR times I had NO WARS... I was NOT a vassal. and was slow playing. no mods.
And can also conclude I have done OTHER tests about being a merc and vassal.. and WHEN to join as one of those.. and see what it does to the neighbors.
So for me. I will state, that out of 3000 hours of game time.. and 2980 NOT seeing that bug... and of the 10 hours I did see it.. I was NOT a vassal all four times....
I'm pretty confident something else is going on.
pro Tip: I literally saw no wars one time for FIVE FULL YEARS. and the minute I became a vassal... the world went to war.
pretty convincing to me. Not a definitive "this is 100000 percent the way the code works" but convincing enough to me to use it as "be a vassal, I bet wars start up soon".
~cheers
Edit: Pro tip 2. The things u "found in the dll" have been Known since the first month of game. Proximity to others, proximity to fiefs, strength of opposing sides, and time since last war etc".
This isn't "code .dll" stuff. That has been common knowledge for almost 2 years. Stated by devs, and people testing it.
so yeah... nothing new there. I promise you
Its not hard to understand when youre used to C# and you just read the class and methodnames. It would take me muuuuch longer to figure out how heavy the factors are as it would require to do the math and just get a better understandment of the methods in general but simply reading out which factors are included in the decision making isnt hard. Sure there could be more things i simply didnt notice. I didnt check when and how war election get initiated i just looked into the methods that decide how the election turns out and whether you like it or not those are the factors of it.
As to your doubts how it was "that easy" to find i literally used the search function and looked for "diplomacy", "declarewar" and "wardeclare", opened the corresponding classes and looked where the methods are used. Taleworlds has a odd way of naming their stuff but you usually find rather quick what youre looking for.
My claims are mainly based on the GetScoreOfDeclaringWar method in line 1225 and the method getScoreOfWarInternal which gets called at the start of that method. Thats all i looked into but its right there if you want to check it yourself.
I BELIEVE you experienced this but the 95% of the players didnt so there either isnt a "waitForThePlayerToSlapAss" that pauses the world around you or its working so bad that only 5% of the players ever encountered it? (beeing generous with the 5%)
Anyway i dont feel like picking a cyber fight so believe whatever you want
Edit: This is 1.8 related btw so i dont know if its same for 1.7.2
This tbh.
Power relations and tribute paid and received matters a lot, at least (or especially) in 1.8.
Yep. Like I said, you definitely have a much better understanding of code than I do.
And I'm glad u agree, there is PROBABLY (if not certainly) more to it than meets the eye. (My thoughts are that there is MORE code, somewhere).
Not sure what u mean that "95%" of people didn't experience it. I use numbers like that a lot too... to mean "many" or "most". but if u are referring to "the no vassal" thing. I think your numbers are off.
I'd say when this discussion came up in the past. None of us knew.. and we were all guessing.. but after a few days or posts, or even threads (yeah this was discussed multiple times) it was generally agreed by MANY people to be a bug.... and The "best" guess is "you the player need to have committed" to something. (I say vassal).
as to your CODE breakdown.. let's look at it closer... and I'm going purely from memory.. but I'd bet if someone wanted to put some money on the line.. I could PROVE that the stuff I say next is true...
"1-- Total strength calculated by number of clans (Mercenaries dont count), clan tiers. party count/size and number of fiefs (Towns count double to castles)
2-- The wealth and tier of the clan that came up with the idea
3-- Whether or not the leader of the faction came up with the idea
4-- The total wealth of both faction also including town and castle prosperity
5-- The average distance between friendly and hostile fiefs.
6-- Whether or not tribute is paid (from earlier wars)
7-- Relation between clan leaders
8-- Duration since last war
9-- Valor and mercy traits of the leader"
1- Mercs do COUNT.. since they are factored into KINGDOM power. (oh and this is all 1.7.2 since 1.8 IS BETA, i.e. NOT MAIN... but nothing looks different from the last 2.5 years so I'll assume it is as before). Unless u are implying (and if u are, lol. PLEASE put it in writing).. that Merc numbers DO Factor in faction power (they do.. takes 2 seconds to verify in game).. YET.. the ai in it's war decision looks at that number where they added merc, then SUBTRACTS that number, and uses this new 'hidden number". I will say. .01% of that being correct. if not less. But not counting on the merc thing.. Yes, I'll say EVERYONE who has played and commented on this subject agrees Faction power matters.
2- Wealth and tier of the "clan". What is this Mythical clan u speak of. We are talking war. Clans don't declare war. Factions do. And all factions are led by a tier 6 clan at the beginning. So again. ummm no. Wealth may matter, no one has mentioned it before. though I'm not sure how u would prove it. Since you could say "ahh that dudes poor, let's attack"... or "ahh that dudes rich we gotta attack". This is like a BARNUM statement.. It is Pure BS and unproveable. it MIGHT be correct. or EVERYONE may be able to argue it.. since EVERYONE kinda can say Yeah... see I told ya so. A barnum statement is something EVERYONE agrees on.. or when pressed will agree. "you like money". or "you had a bad relationship in the past". yeah... everyone will agree, or be able to say that statement "works". So yeah. "wealth matters". whatever that means.. lmao. (i.e. nothing)
3-Not sure what u mean by this. But yeah Leaders of factions are only ones who can declare war. Even with voting. So they may need influence to overrule.. but yep.. they need to declare war. pretty common knowledge.
4- almost same as 1... worded differently. But yeah. They attack if they feel strong or NEED to attack because they are weak.. and the other guy has something to take. A 20k power faction will NOT declare war on a 20 power faction because the 20 power has NO FIEFS or treasure. yep. and the 20 power WILL declare on the 20k.. because they have NOTHING to lose... they get free troops when captured.. and worst case scenario they get paid off to have peace for short time.. Again. SUPER SUPER common knowledge. everyone agrees and has seen it.
5- Average distance? I doubt it. I know that DISTANCE matters. but mean, median, average etc... Matters little They want to have a fief TOUCHING the other fief.. or CLOSE to it. one thing u forgot. is HISTORICAL ownership (uh oh... either this is wrong.. which it aint.. or some code is missing from your summary).. Because when sturgia loses their western fiefs to vlandia or battania. They NO LONGER have a touching fief, but can't WAIT to go back and get it.
6-Tribute. Matters little. Everyone agrees.. again, nothing new.
7- relation between clan leaders? no. Not sure what u are even saying here. but I can have 80+ average relation with every clan in the game, and they don't give me a "break". they declare when the other things are met... so IF this has ANY bearing (which I bet it does not... ) then it is minimal. Very minimal. Good luck finding a long time player to say "yeah vlandia declared on me, because their tier 3 clan member didn't like my tier 4 clan member".
8-Duration since last war. tested thousands of times. and confirmed by devs. yeah. nothing new here. I always forget the time (because it changed twice).. but iirc it is 14 days? 20? something like that. either way, all the noobs crying "Me pay peace, den tomorrow dey war me again" are incorrect. And we real players know it. There is a MINIMUM amount of days. (I forget number, but it is probably listed in these forums 800 times... search it).
9-valor and mercy traits of the leader. No one has suggested this, because it is impossible to test, OR NOTICE.. so sure, I'll say "cool you found one no one mentioned". Though I have no opinion on if it is true or not.
10- I notice you didn't mention culture. So for 5 above.. as ANY player knows sturgia wants those western castles back.. etc.. Is it "distance" or "sturgian culture". hmmm? regardless they do. always.
11- The most important is "now what?" And I'm not trying to start a forum fight either. but let's be honest.... Look at the thread. OP states "war not happening" or however ALL the threads are worded (multiple threads state NO wars, ALL peace, Peace for 3 years etc). They all mean same thing. Now you "looked at code". Sure, I'll believe ya. I'm sure u did. But this leads to a problem. and my "now what?"
You looked at code. and ALMOST every one of your "code" discoveries were known for 2+ years.. Listed in BOTH forums, and many were confirmed by devs. No shockers. So your CODE search could have just as easily searched these forums and read one of the OTHER threads where long time players wrote their experiences, and results from testing.... and got same answers. Yet. Neither those OLD threads, nor this one, NOR your code reading answer OP. Where is the "too much peace" Thing?
Are you saying that the world goes peaceful because NO ONE has a fief close? or NO one has wealth? or whatever??? of course not. you are just listing factors in the decision (which I agree with). And YET, there are MANY people who have experienced LONG periods of peace. GLOBAL PEACE... NO WARS ON THE MAP. how does that happen based on YOUR code reading? or the things OTHERS posted in older threads????
I say "it is a bug" and there is MORE to it than WE all know. My "experience" is it is at least 95% (see I like that number too lol) likely it is THE PLAYER not COMMITTING.. perhaps that is vassal (as I believe), or maybe the player is 1 dude.. with no money.. and camping out in sanala, with no troops no equipment and no clan power.. YET IS A VASSAL... perhaps THAT is the trigger.. no wars. perhaps the AI says "ahhh this scrub player has no chance to affect the map.. so we SHOULD or SHOULD not go to war?" etc...
All I know is for me, and Others.. we have experienced it when we SLOW PLAY (however they wanna describe it)... and Do not declare as a vassal.
I'd be willing to bet it is for sure a bug.. and "being a vassal" isn't the ONLY thing that fixes it... but it fixed it 4 for 4 when it happened to me... and I mean fixed it withing DAYS.
and 2-5 years of no wars.. then all wars in 1.-5 days from being a vassal, is a pretty good indicator "something is affected by this".
especially since all the "Code" you wrote, that is coincidentally almost exactly what players have been writing for 2.5 years.. (with some added detail, that may or may not be true)... and YET there is still periods of global peace.
alright I'm done. We can agree to disagree.
Just know I believe u.. and also say nothing u wrote is new or revolutionary (nor what I wrote in this thread) and yet there is still the problem of peace. if others have a BETTER suggestion as to what it is. please post it.
I'd love to test it.. Because I am not 100% sure it is "vassal" but am reasonably sure it is by far the best suggestion I've seen.
yeah.. some people who just spout nonsense and cant back stuff up feel that way.
enjoy your "code reading" lmao
I did but i better stop sharing it with special persons that tell me this isnt a "code.dll" really you lost me after that and everything else you said are just conclussions you had while playing or things other people told you so stfu about backing stuff up. My claims can be easily verified by everybody able to read code. Its right in that mentioned dll so imo the guy who spouts nonsense without proof is you. You dont even try to find out how its working youre just here for "winning" a discussion so please take it and have 2 minutes of joy